They do all suffer mildly, but the fuss about the iphone was the external aerial that your fingers came in to contact with and bridged with the outer metal rim causing an impedance issue.
Simple enough.
Simple enough.
HTC HD7 suffers antenna problems when held....
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The ariel outside the phone?
Like that matters?
It causes the SAME END USER RESULT as the interior ariel.
The end user suffers signal degradation of some kind.
Simple.
Like that matters?
It causes the SAME END USER RESULT as the interior ariel.
The end user suffers signal degradation of some kind.
Simple.
No Soundsburst, the aerial on the outside of the phone meant the users fingers bridged the aerial to the metal surround causing the wrong impedance and dropping the signal level a lot more than just holding a phone with an internal aerial.
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“No Soundsburst, the aerial on the outside of the phone meant the users fingers bridged the aerial to the metal surround causing the wrong impedance and dropping the signal level a lot more than just holding a phone with an internal aerial.”
“No Soundsburst, the aerial on the outside of the phone meant the users fingers bridged the aerial to the metal surround causing the wrong impedance and dropping the signal level a lot more than just holding a phone with an internal aerial.”
Bottom Line:
iPhone 4: when held in a certain way signal will degrade (experienced by a massive minority of users)
HTC: when held in a certain way signal will degrade (experienced by a massive minority of users)
There's the user experience minus the technical intricacies.
Originally Posted by Soundburst:
“Bottom Line:
iPhone 4: when held in a certain way signal will degrade (experienced by a massive minority of users)
HTC: when held in a certain way signal will degrade (experienced by a massive minority of users)
There's the user experience minus the technical intricacies.”
“Bottom Line:
iPhone 4: when held in a certain way signal will degrade (experienced by a massive minority of users)
HTC: when held in a certain way signal will degrade (experienced by a massive minority of users)
There's the user experience minus the technical intricacies.”
No
iPhone 4: when held in a certain way signal will degrade severely, that's why they had to give away cases and bumpers. I've tested this and seen it drop several bars when held 'wrong'.
All other phones: when held in a certain way signal will degrade, but to a much lesser extent. eg: my 1-2 bars of HSDPA on GiffGaff doesn't drop off when held in the phone on the HTC, it's that minor, it's less than 1 bar difference, 1 bar if you literally cup the phone.
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“No
iPhone 4: when held in a certain way signal will degrade severely, that's why they had to give away cases and bumpers. I've tested this and seen it drop several bars when held 'wrong'.
All other phones: when held in a certain way signal will degrade, but to a much lesser extent. eg: my 1-2 bars of HSDPA on GiffGaff doesn't drop off when held in the phone on the HTC, it's that minor, it's less than 1 bar difference, 1 bar if you literally cup the phone.”
“No
iPhone 4: when held in a certain way signal will degrade severely, that's why they had to give away cases and bumpers. I've tested this and seen it drop several bars when held 'wrong'.
All other phones: when held in a certain way signal will degrade, but to a much lesser extent. eg: my 1-2 bars of HSDPA on GiffGaff doesn't drop off when held in the phone on the HTC, it's that minor, it's less than 1 bar difference, 1 bar if you literally cup the phone.”
Erm. . .they gave away bumpers because people overreacted like those on DS. Millions of iPhone users don't suffer problems - because they don't intentionally try to make the signal degrade.
Again . . .bottom line:
iPhone 4 when held a certain way for a certain length of time will suffer signal degradation
HTC HD7 when held a certain way for a certain length of time will suffer signal degradation.
You've been brainwashed by Jobbs so it's pointless, just look at the tests they did, look at the science.
I saw the iphone problem with my own eyes, I was able to recreate it by holding the device in a not unusual or uncomfortable way. I tested it on 3 friends phones, they also admitted it was an issue / happened but that they planned to get cases or bumpers anyway. That should be a choice though, not a necessity as my HTC doesn't have a case and I'm happy with it that way.
Whats the point in getting one of the nicest looking phones out and then smothering it in a case or bumper, I can't tell which of my work mates have iphone 4's now because they are all in cases anyway.
I saw the iphone problem with my own eyes, I was able to recreate it by holding the device in a not unusual or uncomfortable way. I tested it on 3 friends phones, they also admitted it was an issue / happened but that they planned to get cases or bumpers anyway. That should be a choice though, not a necessity as my HTC doesn't have a case and I'm happy with it that way.
Whats the point in getting one of the nicest looking phones out and then smothering it in a case or bumper, I can't tell which of my work mates have iphone 4's now because they are all in cases anyway.
Originally Posted by Soundburst:
“
Again . . .bottom line:
iPhone 4 when held a certain way for a certain length of time will suffer far more signal degradation than your average phone
HTC HD7 when held a certain way for a certain length of time will suffer average signal degradation.”
“
Again . . .bottom line:
iPhone 4 when held a certain way for a certain length of time will suffer far more signal degradation than your average phone
HTC HD7 when held a certain way for a certain length of time will suffer average signal degradation.”
corrected for you
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“You've been brainwashed by Jobbs so it's pointless, just look at the tests they did, look at the science.
.. oh never mind that would be too rational and wouldn't sit with your Apple fan bias.”
“You've been brainwashed by Jobbs so it's pointless, just look at the tests they did, look at the science.
.. oh never mind that would be too rational and wouldn't sit with your Apple fan bias.”
I prefer to look at the end user. The millions and millions of them who agree that "scientists" were talking bullshit with regards to normal use.
Normal use that the millions and millions of users have going on every single day.
There's no difference in the end result between the HD7 and the iPhone 4.
The difference is one is made by Apple and was the current version of the one phone they release per year.
The other is made by HTC (and is probably about their 100th or so of the year).
There was only one that was going to receive hyperbole
Originally Posted by Soundburst:
“I prefer to look at the end user. The millions and millions of them who agree that "scientists" were talking bullshit with regards to normal use.
Normal use that the millions and millions of users have going on every single day.
There's no difference in the end result between the HD7 and the iPhone 4.
The difference is one is made by Apple and was the current version of the one phone they release per year.
The other is made by HTC (and is probably about their 100th or so of the year).
There was only one that was going to receive hyperbole”
“I prefer to look at the end user. The millions and millions of them who agree that "scientists" were talking bullshit with regards to normal use.
Normal use that the millions and millions of users have going on every single day.
There's no difference in the end result between the HD7 and the iPhone 4.
The difference is one is made by Apple and was the current version of the one phone they release per year.
The other is made by HTC (and is probably about their 100th or so of the year).
There was only one that was going to receive hyperbole
”
I strongly disagree, and so do a lot of people, but I guess that's all we can do. Neither side is ever going to agree on this, and Apple fans do tend to repeat the Jobsian marketing brief quite well so I don't think this will ever be agreed upon.
All I would say is if there was no issue why did Apple issue free bumpers and cases and sack the antenna designer Mark Papermaster. Very reputable tech reporters, often who are Apple fans themselves don't generally report issues when they know there is no issue. Even people Like Leo Laporte who is very well known in the US because of Tech TV and the syndicated radio show right across the country experienced and reported heavily on the issue and the poor way in which Apple handled it, and he's a big Apple fan.
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“All I would say is if there was no issue why did Apple issue free bumpers and cases and sack the antenna designer Mark Papermaster. Very reputable tech reporters, often who are Apple fans themselves don't generally report issues when they know there is no issue. Even people Like Leo Laporte who is very well known in the US because of Tech TV and the syndicated radio show right across the country experienced and reported heavily on the issue and the poor way in which Apple handled it, and he's a big Apple fan.”
“All I would say is if there was no issue why did Apple issue free bumpers and cases and sack the antenna designer Mark Papermaster. Very reputable tech reporters, often who are Apple fans themselves don't generally report issues when they know there is no issue. Even people Like Leo Laporte who is very well known in the US because of Tech TV and the syndicated radio show right across the country experienced and reported heavily on the issue and the poor way in which Apple handled it, and he's a big Apple fan.”
Most reporters, including Leo Laporte, now agree that it was much ado about nothing. And consumers seem to agree too.
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“Most reporters, including Leo Laporte, now agree that it was much ado about nothing. And consumers seem to agree too.”
“Most reporters, including Leo Laporte, now agree that it was much ado about nothing. And consumers seem to agree too.
”
Yeah. . .but who cares what the actual buyers think
Perhaps there's no hyperbole about this HTC phone because no ones bought one in comparison. Regardless of sales it would be nice to see all companies treated equally within the media and not just get off because they don't have particularly desirable handsets / several out each month.
Originally Posted by Soundburst:
“I prefer to look at the end user. The millions and millions of them who agree that "scientists" were talking bullshit with regards to normal use.
Normal use that the millions and millions of users have going on every single day.
There's no difference in the end result between the HD7 and the iPhone 4.
”
“I prefer to look at the end user. The millions and millions of them who agree that "scientists" were talking bullshit with regards to normal use.
Normal use that the millions and millions of users have going on every single day.
There's no difference in the end result between the HD7 and the iPhone 4.
”
hyperbole? Pot, kettle black. First, who has spoken to millions and millions of consumers? No-one.
Second, it hasn't had to turn into an issue because everyone has the bumpers just in case so no one will experience that effect.
Third. Most commentators on the HD7 report have said they could not replicate these results and that the people in the videos must have been in basements or something. This has not been a widespread reported problem.
Fourth. How have you compared the difference between an iphone 4 and an HD7? Oh, you haven't. Sorry, in apple land, assertions automatically become fact.
Fifth. As Thine Wonk says, if there's no shorting of the metal band, why issue bumpers? If people are complaining about a signal issue that according to you does not exist. Bumpers aren't going to fix it and there's no point giving them out.
The point we are all making, is antennae always get attenuated when something is in their line of sight that can't be diffracted around. This means losing a bar, two at most. iPhone4 having the metal band has a signal issue over and above this norm. This means losing much more, if not all signal.
Jobs in his presentation made a virtue of this magical antenna, how it was a feature. A feature that subsequently has had to be covered up with a rubber band.
There's no doubt that it got more press than it should have, but that was largely due to Apple's handling of it, things like telling people they were holding a phone wrong and stuff like that.
That doesn't mean it isn't real though.
That doesn't mean it isn't real though.
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“There's no doubt that it got more press than it should have, but that was largely due to Apple's handling of it, things like telling people they were holding a phone wrong and stuff like that.”
“There's no doubt that it got more press than it should have, but that was largely due to Apple's handling of it, things like telling people they were holding a phone wrong and stuff like that.”
My Nokia E72 manual advises not to cover the antenna too.
Originally Posted by Soundburst:
“You lost me at "the people with the HD7's must have been in basements".”
“You lost me at "the people with the HD7's must have been in basements".”
A joker no doubt.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGxEN...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13nzk...eature=related
From official sources. Shows the signal being slowly killed to nothing. That is NOT what happens on the HD7 or any other phone. They just have a slightly weaker signal, theirs does not keep decreasing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13nzk...eature=related
From official sources. Shows the signal being slowly killed to nothing. That is NOT what happens on the HD7 or any other phone. They just have a slightly weaker signal, theirs does not keep decreasing.
Originally Posted by TheBigM:
“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGxEN...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13nzk...eature=related
From official sources. Shows the signal being slowly killed to nothing. That is NOT what happens on the HD7 or any other phone. They just have a slightly weaker signal, theirs does not keep decreasing.”
“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGxEN...eature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13nzk...eature=related
From official sources. Shows the signal being slowly killed to nothing. That is NOT what happens on the HD7 or any other phone. They just have a slightly weaker signal, theirs does not keep decreasing.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD3_sDXlHuA
Strange how he gets great signal in his basement holding the phone at the top. . . but at the bottom he gets no bars.
I generally hold my phones from the bottom.
So he lost 2 bars by cupping the phone completely, not as bad as the iphone then which I've tested and went from nearly full to 'no signal' over the course of 60 seconds of just holding the gap between the aerial and the metal surround.
All phones with lost a bit of signal when you totally cup your hands around it, however the iphone 4 issue lost even more signal when you bridged the external aerial to the metal surround.
I found it to be worse if you had moist hands, if you had slightly sweaty hands if you had been in a warm room or had them in your pockets then touched the phone the drop would be significant is it conducted more.
All phones with lost a bit of signal when you totally cup your hands around it, however the iphone 4 issue lost even more signal when you bridged the external aerial to the metal surround.
I found it to be worse if you had moist hands, if you had slightly sweaty hands if you had been in a warm room or had them in your pockets then touched the phone the drop would be significant is it conducted more.
Er no, he got one bar, not no bars. As mentioned, all phones get attenuated when you grip them like this. This also doesn't account for the fact that when you make a call, your phone will boost radio power if need be to connect. But this is only works when you have at least some signal and not no signal.
But on the iPhone, it seems to be worse and goes to zero bars because of the shorting because of an antenna design that was initially flaunted as a magical new feature. Additionally the iPhone was reporting signal strength using a misleading calculation that overreported this by two bars. A recent update corrected this and now iPhone often show lesser signal using a method in line with industry standards.
But on the iPhone, it seems to be worse and goes to zero bars because of the shorting because of an antenna design that was initially flaunted as a magical new feature. Additionally the iPhone was reporting signal strength using a misleading calculation that overreported this by two bars. A recent update corrected this and now iPhone often show lesser signal using a method in line with industry standards.
One of the reasons it got the press it did was because of the ridiculous things Apple came out with, the light sensor isn't working that well - your ears are too clean. The signal drops when I hold it with the side of my thumb over the side - you're holding it wrong.
The description of his video says otherwise. Perhaps watch the video again ?
Same end result with holding the phone the same way as a user holding an iPhone would hold theirs = same problem. That's the way you hold a phone. Intentionally blocking the signal is irrelevant, especially when it involves "bridging metal with your finger in a certain way". That video is the way a phone should be held. A natural way. On both handsets that causes the same problem. Degradation of signal. The only difference is Apple and HTC.
Simple.
Same end result with holding the phone the same way as a user holding an iPhone would hold theirs = same problem. That's the way you hold a phone. Intentionally blocking the signal is irrelevant, especially when it involves "bridging metal with your finger in a certain way". That video is the way a phone should be held. A natural way. On both handsets that causes the same problem. Degradation of signal. The only difference is Apple and HTC.
Simple.
Originally Posted by Soundburst:
“The description of his video says otherwise. Perhaps watch the video again ?
Same end result with holding the phone the same way as a user holding an iPhone would hold theirs = same problem. That's the way you hold a phone. Intentionally blocking the signal is irrelevant. That's the way a phone should be held. On both handsets that causes the same problem. Degradation of signal.
Simple.”
“The description of his video says otherwise. Perhaps watch the video again ?
Same end result with holding the phone the same way as a user holding an iPhone would hold theirs = same problem. That's the way you hold a phone. Intentionally blocking the signal is irrelevant. That's the way a phone should be held. On both handsets that causes the same problem. Degradation of signal.
Simple.”
He even says it 'lost' signal and then contradicts himself 1 second later on the video saying it's only got 1 bar, 1 bar is NOT lost signal.
Originally Posted by Thine Wonk:
“There's no doubt that it got more press than it should have, but that was largely due to Apple's handling of it, things like telling people they were holding a phone wrong and stuff like that.That doesn't mean it isn't real though.”
“There's no doubt that it got more press than it should have, but that was largely due to Apple's handling of it, things like telling people they were holding a phone wrong and stuff like that.That doesn't mean it isn't real though.”
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“Most reporters, including Leo Laporte, now agree that it was much ado about nothing. And consumers seem to agree too.”
“Most reporters, including Leo Laporte, now agree that it was much ado about nothing. And consumers seem to agree too.
”
It was a very first and it did seem that the sideways manoeuvre was enough to get them all back into line.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-13924_3-20...=2547-1_3-0-20
IOS devices have a whole list many limitations that makes their prices hard to justify.
The fear factor is maybe fear of its media readers rather than fear of Apple.
Your link ends with
Quote:
“It's hard to argue with success. As long as Apple continues to crank out products that everybody wants, the fear factor will be there. (And I'll continue to buy MacBooks, iPads, and iPhones.)”
“It's hard to argue with success. As long as Apple continues to crank out products that everybody wants, the fear factor will be there. (And I'll continue to buy MacBooks, iPads, and iPhones.)”
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“IOS devices have a whole list many limitations that makes their prices hard to justify.”
“IOS devices have a whole list many limitations that makes their prices hard to justify.”
iOS devices have such great usability that it makes Apple's competitors scream, wet themselves and then run for the door. Some of the competitors' products are so poor that one wonders how they ever got to market.
Originally Posted by alanwarwic:
“The fear factor is maybe fear of its media readers rather than fear of Apple.”
“The fear factor is maybe fear of its media readers rather than fear of Apple.”
Bizarre statement of the year.
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