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Joanna has changed. |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Nov 2009
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Joanna has changed.
I've been watching The Apprentice since series four, and there hasn't been a single candidate, until now, that has changed quite profoundly. There may have been previous candidates that have changed in terms of their business style, but I personally havent picked up on it, until watching Joanna.
Unfortunately I missed the second episode of the current series and so decided to watch it and Joanna was aggressive as hell; it was like watching another candidate. At certain points I loved her style, but watching her now she's mellowed quite a lot. I think she fully took on Lord Sugars advice but it's good to know she has a fiesty side to her. What do you all think? |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jun 2004
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Quote:
I've been watching The Apprentice since series four, and there hasn't been a single candidate, until now, that has changed quite profoundly. There may have been previous candidates that have changed in terms of their business style, but I personally havent picked up on it, until watching Joanna.
Unfortunately I missed the second episode of the current series and so decided to watch it and Joanna was aggressive as hell; it was like watching another candidate. At certain points I loved her style, but watching her now she's mellowed quite a lot. I think she fully took on Lord Sugars advice but it's good to know she has a fiesty side to her. What do you all think? FWIW, I don't think Sir Lord Sugar's warning to Joanna was at all fair. It was Melissa who she had that argument with, and I remember Melissa being the more aggressive of the two of them. But in a way, that connects to my first point. |
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#3 |
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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She wasn't 'aggressive as hell', she was passionate. And still is. However as a black woman, she's probably only too well aware of the lazy racial stereotyping/labels and decided to tone that passion down a bit.:yawn:
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#4 |
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Quote:
She wasn't 'aggressive as hell', she was passionate. And still is. However as a black woman, she's probably only too well aware of the lazy racial stereotyping/labels and decided to tone that passion down a bit.:yawn:
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#5 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
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I thought she was OK from the start. In the second episode, she kept trying to raise her idea and Laura kept dismissing it out of hand, and mostly Jo seemed to accept it, even though it must have been frustrating.
Perhaps the most questionable moment was in the car when Joy kept apologising for existing. Joanna tried to tell her she didn't need to do that; that her contributions were welcome even when they were criticisms because they helped the team. She was trying to be supportive but it came across as a bit aggressive and prescriptive. It didn't bother me at the time, but I think it might have bothered others, especially as Joy got fired. Joanna is passionate. If you look at, eg, her telephone conversation with Stella in the German crisps task, where she had strong ideas on the flavours and Stella wasn't taking them on board, then you can see she is still passionate, even hectoring. I suspect we tend to put a better interpretation on it now we know her better. |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
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I agree Joanna is looking a strong candidate now, but was awful in the first two tasks. Perhaps Lord Sugar's words hit home, but I think Melissa was one of the key people who wound Joanna up. After she left I don't recall any problems.
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#7 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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Quote:
She wasn't 'aggressive as hell', she was passionate. And still is. However as a black woman, she's probably only too well aware of the lazy racial stereotyping/labels and decided to tone that passion down a bit.:yawn:
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#8 |
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Join Date: Aug 2009
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Joanna has certainly moderated her charms as the series has gone on. Or that is how it is presented anyway !!!
I am very impressed with Joanna. Not sure she is final 2 material as this is a very strong field but Joanna has been an outstanding candidate this year. |
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#9 |
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Yeah, that's why people think she was aggressive. Racism. Not 'cause she made a grown woman cry.
My reading of that clip is different. It starts with Melissa demonstrating the pitch she plans to give later that day. It's very poor. We see Joanna pick up on the phrase "built in your end user" on the grounds that it's confusing jargon. Much is edited out. At the end, Joanna starts to sum up her issues with the pitch, saying amongst other things that she'd expected Melissa to nail it. Before she can get very far, someone jumps in and says Joanna is being unfair. Joanna defends herself, someone calls her bitchy, and the meeting collapses into shouting. Laura gets up and walks out. It seemed to me that Joanna was spot-on with her feedback and it needed to be said. She hasn't yet learned how to phrase criticism without causing offence. But she's not being malicious or unfair. She's trying to be constructive; she gave constructive comments earlier, and I think she was about to do so at the end. The situation dissolves mainly because she isn't allowed to finish her point. The video makes it look like it's Liz who jumps in, but from the voices I'm pretty sure it's Laura, and it's Liz who says Joanna is being bitchy. Joanna was part of it, but I don't see why she should get all the blame. Personally I mostly blame Laura. She created an environment in which Joanna and the others have to shout to be heard. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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Quote:
She wasn't 'aggressive as hell', she was passionate. And still is. However as a black woman, she's probably only too well aware of the lazy racial stereotyping/labels and decided to tone that passion down a bit.:yawn:
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#11 |
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Yeah, that's why people think she was aggressive. Racism.Not 'cause she made a grown woman cry.
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#12 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Personally I mostly blame Laura. She created an environment in which Joanna and the others have to shout to be heard.
How the hell can you blame the concerted efforts of an entire group who, at that particular time, failed to follow the rules of cooperative conversation just one person who was nominally in charge.Laura wasn't a teacher in charge of a class of infants. What did you want her to do - tell them all to raise their hand before speaking? |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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Joanna has changed alot, but her voice still annoys the hell out of me. It's about one pitch higher than what my ears can tolerate.
![]() I think Jadine in series 3 changed alot aswell. |
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#14 |
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Joanna has changed alot, but her voice still annoys the hell out of me. It's about one pitch higher than what my ears can tolerate.
![]() I think Jadine in series 3 changed alot aswell. |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Mar 2007
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Joanna has definitely turned into a strong candidate now (although now I've said that, she'll probably go tomorrow just to prove me wrong!). I think she's in with a good chance of winning as she has a lot of the attributes Siralun often goes for - she's feisty, not from a corporate background, seems pretty down to earth, doesn't seem too highly educated or posh (not meant as a criticism), comes up with a lot of ideas, gets her point across, and she has actually taken his criticism on board and completely reinvented herself since the first couple of weeks.
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#16 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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How the hell can you blame the concerted efforts of an entire group who, at that particular time, failed to follow the rules of cooperative conversation just one person who was nominally in charge.Laura wasn't a teacher in charge of a class of infants. What did you want her to do - tell them all to raise their hand before speaking? |
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#17 |
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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No. But she was a project manager, and should have been able to control a team. Instead, she threw a hissy fit and walked out of the room in tears because she wasn't getting her own way!
Or, you could say that she walked out in frustration that a group of people, all somewhat older and, one would assume, more mature than herself, were unable to conduct themselves in a calm, cooperative and adult manner. As Joy said when she was fired (paraphrased): "Thank God I no longer have to work with those screaming women". Fortunately they calmed down a bit as the series progressed. Which is just as well as they seem a lot stronger than the boys. |
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#18 |
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One way to spin it.
Or, you could say that she walked out in frustration that a group of people, all somewhat older and, one would assume, more mature than herself, were unable to conduct themselves in a calm, cooperative and adult manner. As Joy said when she was fired (paraphrased): "Thank God I no longer have to work with those screaming women". Fortunately they calmed down a bit as the series progressed. Which is just as well as they seem a lot stronger than the boys. |
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#19 |
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Laura demonstrated her immaturity on many occasions, and in fact was the catalyst and or instigator for many of the arguments which made the girls appear as "screaming women". Laura did not appear capable of conducting herself in a "calm, cooperative and adult manner" as you have put it, and she quite often demonstrated her immaturity and aggression when things didnt go her way. The only time I recall her saying or doing anything of any note was in the Germinator episode when she pointed out that the product was not suitable for children to be playing with.
It's laughable that Laura's detractors manage to blame her for the behaviour of a group of people who should be quite capable of organising themselves without the histrionics we saw in that episode. (Although I, personally, would excuse most of that - Laura's failings and the failings of the others - on account of the unusual pressures they were working under.) |
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#20 |
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So, would you say that the normal reaction of a set of mature, high flying, business women to a somewhat less mature manager would be to start to scream and shout?
It's laughable that Laura's detractors manage to blame her for the behaviour of a group of people who should be quite capable of organising themselves without the histrionics we saw in that episode. (Although I, personally, would excuse most of that - Laura's failings and the failings of the others - on account of the unusual pressures they were working under.) Laura was a useless candidate, and only managed to survive so long because she was in a winning teams which she did not contribute to winning either. They are all well aware of the pressures that they will be under when entering into a competition such as The Apprentice. Laura calling her colleagues "shits" because she wasn't getting her own way, shows not only how immature she is, but that she cannot accept other peoples opinions and views if different to her own. |
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#21 |
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Join Date: Dec 2002
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She wasn't 'aggressive as hell', she was passionate. And still is. However as a black woman, she's probably only too well aware of the lazy racial stereotyping/labels and decided to tone that passion down a bit.:yawn:
Right on ! if a white man had behaved the way she did Sir Alan would have been jumping over the desk to shake hands with him , talk about a hypocrite ! |
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#22 |
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Right on ! if a white man had behaved the way she did Sir Alan would have been jumping over the desk to shake hands with him , talk about a hypocrite !
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#23 |
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Join Date: Apr 2009
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I wouldn't say Joanna was aggressive so much as forthright. By that I mean she had good points, but was very candid in terms of how she put them across, which can alienate people. But she seems to have that under control now.
And I don't blame her if she came across to some people as argumentative in the first episode. Trust me, my reaction would be far worse if I had Melissa screeching and jabbering in my ear about "profeesssionalissm". Probably something along the lines of how Tre would react. ![]() Joanna's problem was really the opposite of Laura's - Laura wasn't strong enough to push her points through, while Joanna often pushed her's through in a way that made her come across as a bulldozer to some people. She was nowhere near as bad as Melissa though. By her own admission after the episode 2 boardroom, she learned that she needed to change tact, which she seems to have done. Definetly one of my favourites for the final .
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#24 |
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Join Date: Mar 2009
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I wouldn't say Joanna was agressive so much as forthright. By that I mean she had good points, but was very candid in terms of how she put them across, which can alienate people. But she seems to have that under control now.
And I don't blame her if she came across to some people as argumentative in the first episode. Trust me, my reaction would be far worse if I had Melissa screeching and jabbering in my ear about "profeesssionalissm". Probably something along the lines of how Tre would react. ![]() Joanna's problem was really the opposite of Laura's - Laura wasn't strong enough to push her points through, while Joanna often pushed her's through in a way that made her come across as a bulldozer to some people. She was nowhere near as bad as Melissa though. By her own admission after the episode 2 boardroom, she learned that she needed to change tact, which she seems to have done. Definetly one of my favourites for the final . |
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#25 |
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Join Date: May 2006
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Quote:
I wouldn't say Joanna was aggressive so much as forthright. By that I mean she had good points, but was very candid in terms of how she put them across, which can alienate people. But she seems to have that under control now.
And I don't blame her if she came across to some people as argumentative in the first episode. Trust me, my reaction would be far worse if I had Melissa screeching and jabbering in my ear about "profeesssionalissm". Probably something along the lines of how Tre would react. ![]() Joanna's problem was really the opposite of Laura's - Laura wasn't strong enough to push her points through, while Joanna often pushed her's through in a way that made her come across as a bulldozer to some people. She was nowhere near as bad as Melissa though. By her own admission after the episode 2 boardroom, she learned that she needed to change tact, which she seems to have done. Definetly one of my favourites for the final . |
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How the hell can you blame the concerted efforts of an entire group who, at that particular time, failed to follow the rules of cooperative conversation just one person who was nominally in charge.
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