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Joanna has changed. |
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#26 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 3,089
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Quote:
I wouldn't say Joanna was aggressive so much as forthright. By that I mean she had good points, but was very candid in terms of how she put them across, which can alienate people. But she seems to have that under control now.
And I don't blame her if she came across to some people as argumentative in the first episode. Trust me, my reaction would be far worse if I had Melissa screeching and jabbering in my ear about "profeesssionalissm". Probably something along the lines of how Tre would react. ![]() Joanna's problem was really the opposite of Laura's - Laura wasn't strong enough to push her points through, while Joanna often pushed her's through in a way that made her come across as a bulldozer to some people. She was nowhere near as bad as Melissa though. By her own admission after the episode 2 boardroom, she learned that she needed to change tact, which she seems to have done. Definetly one of my favourites for the final . |
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#27 |
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Earth dumbarse
Posts: 4,394
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Shes gotten better over the past few weeks and I think she miiight possibley make the final 2
However Jadine from series three was very aggresive at the start but she got better going on and its a shame she got home sick, I loved her. |
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#28 |
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Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Nottingham, UK
Posts: 11,878
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How the hell can you blame the concerted efforts of an entire group who, at that particular time, failed to follow the rules of cooperative conversation just one person who was nominally in charge.As further evidence, consider how well the women cooperated on the previous task, when Joanna led them to victory. Joanna was able to unify them, despite that being the first time they had worked together. Something turned an effective, winning team into a chaotic, losing one. The only thing that changed was the leader. Finally, as several others have said, Laura showed what a nightmare she was on many subsequent tasks. Quote:
What did you want her to do - tell them all to raise their hand before speaking?
She should make sure each gets their chance to make their points. Once they were secure that they would be heard, they'd be less inclined to shout. They were not an unmanageable team.Beyond that, to be honest I don't know. I do know that leadership matters, but I am not a good leader myself and I can't teach others to lead. I think some of it is down to things like confidence and body language. You need to know your own mind, and be consistent. Stella did a good job of organising the other team; I don't think she had a good win, but their performance was better than on the previous task. She was a better leader than Dan. Do you really find it hard to believe that the same people could behave differently under different leaders? Have you never encountered a poor leader? Of course the nature of the candidates and show means they are all competitive, all pro-active, and none of them will want to sit quietly while a poor leader sends their team down the toilet. So the usual problems of poor leadership are exaggerated beyond what you'd see in a typical work place. |
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#29 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Titan Uranus
Posts: 31,966
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Shes gotten better over the past few weeks and I think she miiight possibley make the final 2
However Jadine from series three was very aggresive at the start but she got better going on and its a shame she got home sick, I loved her. Thought it was mad Jadine went home against Lohit, but I guess the decision was based on her state of mind, not really her potential or skill in comparison to his. |
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#30 |
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Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,459
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She was awful tonight, nagging away and then getting petulant when she didn't get the response she wanted. She even criticised how he took criticism. It just came across as self obsessed neediness.
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#31 |
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Titan Uranus
Posts: 31,966
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Yeah it looks like Joanna hasn't changed THAT much.
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#32 |
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 3,492
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Gone off her yet again after tonight. I was starting to like her, but I've done a full u-turn on my opinion of her now.
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#33 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,765
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Yes. I have to admit that she hasn't done herself any favours in tonights episode. She appeared to have improved over the last few weeks, but all that good work has unfortunately been undone with her attitude in tonights episode.
Shame
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#34 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Broughty Ferry
Posts: 30,532
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At least she does not go about offering people a fight. She will be in the final and may win.
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#35 |
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 2,765
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Gone off her yet again after tonight. I was starting to like her, but I've done a full u-turn on my opinion of her now.
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#36 |
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 4,894
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I've been championing her for weeks, but she was really annoying tonight.
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#37 |
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,411
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Yes, back to the drawing board for Joanna I'm afraid. She's still as irritating and a nightmare to work with as she was at the beginning of the series - she's just been managing to suppress it inbetween.
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#38 |
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 182
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Yeah, that's why people think she was aggressive. Racism. Not 'cause she made a grown woman cry.
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#39 |
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 406
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Quote:
Yes, back to the drawing board for Joanna I'm afraid. She's still as irritating and a nightmare to work with as she was at the beginning of the series - she's just been managing to suppress it inbetween.
Her people skills with Jamie that were shown were not good. Bearing in mind, Jamie actually did a good job for once, he did not deserve the barracking he got at the beginning, The way Joanna approached the issue of a lack of success resulting in people wanting refunds was also not good management. Could have destroyed his confidence. I'm no fan of Jamie but I understood why he wanted some silence when they were walking the tour as he was focusing on what he could say and trying to remember the route. That takes concentration and very few people can concentrate when they are being talked at. |
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#40 |
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sussex by the Sea
Posts: 19,193
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She wasn't 'aggressive as hell', she was passionate. And still is. However as a black woman, she's probably only too well aware of the lazy racial stereotyping/labels and decided to tone that passion down a bit.:yawn:
You can be passionate without being agressive. In Joanna's case she isn't really that agressive, but she is annoyingly OTT if she doesn't get her way when she is PM. I've project managed large teams and quickly learned there are better ways to get what you want than badgering people into submission. People eventually give in because they have to, but they resent it and that ill feeling persists. There are times you need to pull rank, but it really should be done sparingly, if ever. I cringe everytime a candidate defends themselves by saying they are passionate about the process. It's a very empty thing to say when what you really mean is I'm passionate about not being fired. In The Apprentice "being passionate" about something is code for "I want my own way and I'll keep on about it until I get it". Also being passionate is almost completely useless in business. Successful business people have to assess things in a clear, calculated manner. Being passionate about something means you will support an idea regardless of its merits because you love it so much. Enthusiasm is great, passion way over the top. |
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#41 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 406
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She defended herself tonight as being passionate, but that's an overused and much abused word. You can't defend bad behaviour by saying you're passionate. Poor Jamie's face was a picture when she aggressively accused him of being aggressive.
You can be passionate without being agressive. In Joanna's case she isn't really that agressive, but she is annoyingly OTT if she doesn't get her way when she is PM. I've project managed large teams and quickly learned there are better ways to get what you want than badgering people into submission. People eventually give in because they have to, but they resent it and that ill feeling persists. There are times you need to pull rank, but it really should be done sparingly, if ever. I cringe everytime a candidate defends themselves by saying they are passionate about the process. It's a very empty thing to say when what you really mean is I'm passionate about not being fired. In The Apprentice "being passionate" about something is code for "I want my own way and I'll keep on about it until I get it". Also being passionate is almost completely useless in business. Successful business people have to assess things in a clear, calculated manner. Being passionate about something means you will support an idea regardless of its merits because you love it so much. Enthusiasm is great, passion way over the top. |
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#42 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 197
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I think Joanna is finished. She wont win. It was jamie who would be going on the bus, so it was up to him to decide what to do on it. She should have left him to it.
At least Jamie worked out the route himself. Stella it seems doesnt even know the east end and didnt even go there to check it out. |
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#43 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,459
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Quote:
She defended herself tonight as being passionate, but that's an overused and much abused word. You can't defend bad behaviour by saying you're passionate. Poor Jamie's face was a picture when she aggressively accused him of being aggressive.
You can be passionate without being agressive. In Joanna's case she isn't really that agressive, but she is annoyingly OTT if she doesn't get her way when she is PM. I've project managed large teams and quickly learned there are better ways to get what you want than badgering people into submission. People eventually give in because they have to, but they resent it and that ill feeling persists. There are times you need to pull rank, but it really should be done sparingly, if ever. I cringe everytime a candidate defends themselves by saying they are passionate about the process. It's a very empty thing to say when what you really mean is I'm passionate about not being fired. In The Apprentice "being passionate" about something is code for "I want my own way and I'll keep on about it until I get it". Also being passionate is almost completely useless in business. Successful business people have to assess things in a clear, calculated manner. Being passionate about something means you will support an idea regardless of its merits because you love it so much. Enthusiasm is great, passion way over the top. Jamie is halfway across the pedestrian crossing "Jamie we'll cross here" made me laugh. |
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#44 |
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Broughty Ferry
Posts: 30,532
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I think Joanna is finished. She wont win. It was jamie who would be going on the bus, so it was up to him to decide what to do on it. She should have left him to it.
At least Jamie worked out the route himself. Stella it seems doesnt even know the east end and didnt even go there to check it out. |
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#45 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,441
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Right on ! if a white man had behaved the way she did Sir Alan would have been jumping over the desk to shake hands with him , talk about a hypocrite !
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/tv/Apprentice-58886.html I also thought Joanne was a bit of a berk in tonights show. She was continually nagging Jamie then claimed to feel threatened when he expressed his concern. He hardly threatened to spark her lights out. She also tried to back out of a deal that was offered and agreed. Very unprofessional. |
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#46 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,459
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Odd that someone has chosen to play the race card when Joanne herself has a conviction for a racial attack on 3 taxi drivers.
http://www.femalefirst.co.uk/tv/Apprentice-58886.html I also thought Joanne was a bit of a berk in tonights show. She was continually nagging Jamie then claimed to feel threatened when he expressed his concern. He hardly threatened to spark her lights out. She also tried to back out of a deal that was offered and agreed. Very unprofessional. |
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#47 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,441
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Yes, back to the drawing board for Joanna I'm afraid. She's still as irritating and a nightmare to work with as she was at the beginning of the series - she's just been managing to suppress it inbetween.
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#48 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,441
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And eventually won her the task.
The Apprentice is black and white. Winning is everything. Even Noorul won a task once. |
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#49 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,333
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Everything is subjected to the editing, most of what how Joanna was dipicted was through the lack of reponse she was getting from Jamie when she had ask him questions and he gave non-plus answers, which showed his lack of respect towards the PM, he did that too on a previous task which showed he can be moody when he doesn't get his way, but I'm not letting that distract me from appreciating that he did a good job this week, but equally if Jamie responded properly then I am sure we wouldn't have seen that many clips. Point in question Joanna didn't have any disagreement or had to repeat herself with Chris even though he made a hash of giving too much away when dealing with the tour operator.
I'm glad Joanna has made it to the interview stage and I hope she will be one of the candidates in the final. As much as people say that she is aggressive, passionate and annoying, my interpretation of what I seen is that she is forthright, dogmatic, vehement, resourceful and ultimately gets the job done. Good Luck Joanna |
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#50 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 2,459
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So what.That hardly mitigates the flaws.
The Apprentice is black and white. Winning is everything. Even Noorul won a task once. |
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How the hell can you blame the concerted efforts of an entire group who, at that particular time, failed to follow the rules of cooperative conversation just one person who was nominally in charge.