My Mums Blackberry Torch which is only 2 weeks old ( we got it from Orange upgrades) stopped making or receiving text or phone calls last Friday. You can still use the WAP and surf the web. I phoned I contacted Orange who after running a diagnostic said the phone had been reported stolen by one of the other networks! They said it must have been an error and they will contact the UK Blacklist people. we are sat with the phone not doing what we need it to do and Orange say we have to wait until they can find which network have blocked the phone so the can contact them. I want to know how this can happen and who else can I contact to kick some ass! The UK blacklist people don't accept calls from people other than the networks, What should I be saying to Orange as I am fed up of hitting my head on a brick wall!
Advice on blacklisted phone
If you got the phone from Orange they should be able to unblacklist it providing you fax/post/email proof of purchase
If you blacklist a phone, it does it against all uk netwroks, so I thought the reverse would be true, any network should be able to unblacklist it, however I may be wrong on that one
If you blacklist a phone, it does it against all uk netwroks, so I thought the reverse would be true, any network should be able to unblacklist it, however I may be wrong on that one
http://www.checkmend.com/uk/
Try it out on there if you want to double check if it's blocked.
Try it out on there if you want to double check if it's blocked.
Originally Posted by toyotacity:
“If you got the phone from Orange they should be able to unblacklist it providing you fax/post/email proof of purchase”
“If you got the phone from Orange they should be able to unblacklist it providing you fax/post/email proof of purchase”
If the h/set was blocked by Orange, then we can unlock via our "CS Portal", however if any other network has done it, it is down to Blacklisting UK to determine the network that blacklisted it, and get them to remove the blacklisting.
Blacklisting UK are basically a third party database of blacklisted IMEI's that are shared to the networks, allowing impartiality.
Originally Posted by plymouthbloke1974:
“If the h/set was blocked by Orange, then we can unlock via our "CS Portal", however if any other network has done it, it is down to Blacklisting UK to determine the network that blacklisted it, and get them to remove the blacklisting.
Blacklisting UK are basically a third party database of blacklisted IMEI's that are shared to the networks, allowing impartiality.”
“If the h/set was blocked by Orange, then we can unlock via our "CS Portal", however if any other network has done it, it is down to Blacklisting UK to determine the network that blacklisted it, and get them to remove the blacklisting.
Blacklisting UK are basically a third party database of blacklisted IMEI's that are shared to the networks, allowing impartiality.”
Cheers for that. It's just annoying that one of the networks has ballsed up and we can't use our phone! Don't suppose there is owt we can do until we find out which network has not done there job right and not checked there numbers against the IMEI
Originally Posted by TeeGee:
“Perhaps Orange might respond to a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act?”
“Perhaps Orange might respond to a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act?”
How would that work then? There's nothing wrong with the handset.
Originally Posted by simonmoore:
“Cheers for that. It's just annoying that one of the networks has ballsed up and we can't use our phone! Don't suppose there is owt we can do until we find out which network has not done there job right and not checked there numbers against the IMEI”
“Cheers for that. It's just annoying that one of the networks has ballsed up and we can't use our phone! Don't suppose there is owt we can do until we find out which network has not done there job right and not checked there numbers against the IMEI”
I wouldn't jump to conclusions about what has happened, there are other explanations. I would wait until the investigation is complete, then you can decide whether to pursue a complaint against whoever is responsible.
Originally Posted by TeeGee:
“Perhaps Orange might respond to a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act?”
“Perhaps Orange might respond to a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act?”
Originally Posted by prking:
“How would that work then? There's nothing wrong with the handset.”
“How would that work then? There's nothing wrong with the handset.”
Of course there's something wrong with it - it can't be used for it's intended purpose.
Orange ought to at least replace it with another so that the OP doesn't have to wait around while the blacklisting is removed.
Originally Posted by prking:
“How would that work then? There's nothing wrong with the handset.”
“How would that work then? There's nothing wrong with the handset.”
I was under the impression that the handset would not actually make phone calls! Somehow that does not quite seem to be fit for the purpose
Edit - As Appleseeds said seconds before me, Orange should replace it immediately. I would camp out in their shop until they do!
Originally Posted by TeeGee:
“I was under the impression that the handset would not actually make phone calls! Somehow that does not quite seem to be fit for the purpose
Edit - As Appleseeds said seconds before me, Orange should replace it immediately. I would camp out in their shop until they do!”
“I was under the impression that the handset would not actually make phone calls! Somehow that does not quite seem to be fit for the purpose
Edit - As Appleseeds said seconds before me, Orange should replace it immediately. I would camp out in their shop until they do!”
I suggested this to Orange in facts I demanded it lol. They say they have done nothing wrong which in theory is true.
At the very least, one would hope they are not charging your monthly tariff while they are sorting it out...
Originally Posted by TeeGee:
“I was under the impression that the handset would not actually make phone calls! Somehow that does not quite seem to be fit for the purpose
Edit - As Appleseeds said seconds before me, Orange should replace it immediately. I would camp out in their shop until they do!”
“I was under the impression that the handset would not actually make phone calls! Somehow that does not quite seem to be fit for the purpose
Edit - As Appleseeds said seconds before me, Orange should replace it immediately. I would camp out in their shop until they do!”
Nonsense, there is nothing wrong with the handset. The networks have blocked it from connecting.
If you bought a car and the police stopped you driving it while they investigated a report it had been stolen, you wouldn't use the sale of goods act against the garage. You would wait until it was sorted and then make a claim for expenses etc against whoever made the mistake.
Originally Posted by Appleseed:
“Of course there's something wrong with it - it can't be used for it's intended purpose.
Orange ought to at least replace it with another so that the OP doesn't have to wait around while the blacklisting is removed.”
“Of course there's something wrong with it - it can't be used for it's intended purpose.
Orange ought to at least replace it with another so that the OP doesn't have to wait around while the blacklisting is removed.”
You don't seem to understand how blacklisting works, its not something that's done to the phone.
It means the network refuses the connection.
What you are saying is if you sell me a phone and then someone else blacklists it. The Sale of Goods Act would force you to refund, repair or replace the phone?
Originally Posted by TeeGee:
“Perhaps Orange might respond to a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act?”
“Perhaps Orange might respond to a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act?”
Actually the best avenue is Orange's own T&C's.
Terminating your Contract*because Orange is no longer able to provide access to the
Network
4.4 If, for reasons beyond our control, we are no longer able to provide the Services, we will at our discretion either:
4.4.1 make arrangements for you to be supplied with equivalent Services by another network at no
extra cost to you, or
4.4.2 accept written notice from you that you wish to terminate your Contract. In such cases we will
refund any prepaid Charges that have not been used up
http://www1.orange.co.uk/mobileterms...ember-2010.pdf
if you mention that to them, and reference the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999
Particularly, Unfair Terms
"5.—(1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer."
You can argue that it s detriment to you, as it is at their discretion.
Because in the Orange T&C's linked above,
if you check out sections 3.5, it lists the reasons why you might have access restricted, none of these apply, you can say that is unfair on you, as by no fault of your own, you don't have access to orange services.
My own hunch, ask for a temporary/loan handset, whilst yours is unblocked.
Last edited by Darth-Habib : 07-12-2010 at 21:13
Originally Posted by Darth-Habib:
“Actually the best avenue is Orange's own T&C's.
Terminating your Contract*because Orange is no longer able to provide access to the
Network
4.4 If, for reasons beyond our control, we are no longer able to provide the Services, we will at our discretion either:
4.4.1 make arrangements for you to be supplied with equivalent Services by another network at no
extra cost to you, or
4.4.2 accept written notice from you that you wish to terminate your Contract. In such cases we will
refund any prepaid Charges that have not been used up
http://www1.orange.co.uk/mobileterms...ember-2010.pdf
if you mention that to them, and reference the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999
Particularly, Unfair Terms
"5.—(1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer."
You can argue that it s detriment to you, as it is at their discretion.
Because in the Orange T&C's linked above,
if you check out sections 3.5, it lists the reasons why you might have access restricted, none of these apply, you can say that is unfair on you, as by no fault of your own, you don't have access to orange services.
My own hunch, ask for a temporary/loan handset, whilst yours is unblocked.”
“Actually the best avenue is Orange's own T&C's.
Terminating your Contract*because Orange is no longer able to provide access to the
Network
4.4 If, for reasons beyond our control, we are no longer able to provide the Services, we will at our discretion either:
4.4.1 make arrangements for you to be supplied with equivalent Services by another network at no
extra cost to you, or
4.4.2 accept written notice from you that you wish to terminate your Contract. In such cases we will
refund any prepaid Charges that have not been used up
http://www1.orange.co.uk/mobileterms...ember-2010.pdf
if you mention that to them, and reference the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999
Particularly, Unfair Terms
"5.—(1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer."
You can argue that it s detriment to you, as it is at their discretion.
Because in the Orange T&C's linked above,
if you check out sections 3.5, it lists the reasons why you might have access restricted, none of these apply, you can say that is unfair on you, as by no fault of your own, you don't have access to orange services.
My own hunch, ask for a temporary/loan handset, whilst yours is unblocked.”
That is a very sensible approach, it might work. It may be that Orange could argue that it is the use of the handset which is restricted by an outside party, not the service which is still provided by Orange (the OP's SIM will work in another handset)
I still think it would be better to wait to see why the handset is Blacklisted (there are several alternative possibilities, eg there have been cases where Blackberry handsets have been given incorrect IMEI) and then seek compensation for expenses.
Originally Posted by prking:
“It may be that Orange could argue that it is the use of the handset which is restricted by an outside party, not the service which is still provided by Orange (the OP's SIM will work in another handset)”
“It may be that Orange could argue that it is the use of the handset which is restricted by an outside party, not the service which is still provided by Orange (the OP's SIM will work in another handset)”
If Orange do argue that, if I were the OP, I would point out that when I signed the contract with orange, it was for both service and a handset.
Orange are not delivering the latter, they are not fulfilling their contractual obligations. By not providing a functioning handset/or a replacement therein.
Originally Posted by prking:
“You don't seem to understand how blacklisting works, its not something that's done to the phone.
It means the network refuses the connection.
What you are saying is if you sell me a phone and then someone else blacklists it. The Sale of Goods Act would force you to refund, repair or replace the phone?”
“You don't seem to understand how blacklisting works, its not something that's done to the phone.
It means the network refuses the connection.
What you are saying is if you sell me a phone and then someone else blacklists it. The Sale of Goods Act would force you to refund, repair or replace the phone?”
I'm well aware of how blacklisting works Phil.
It may not be the fault of Orange - or it might be.
The fact is the phone can't be used because it's been blocked from connecting.
It's probably just that someone has entered some wrong details. It might be part of an insurance fraud
The OP has NO chance of getting the blacklisting removed, but Orange have every chance of doing so and i'd have thought it would be an act of good customer relations for them to replace the OP's phone, take his back, sort out the barring problem, refurb it and sell it.
It's no amount of money to Orange.
Originally Posted by Appleseed:
“I'm well aware of how blacklisting works Phil.
It may not be the fault of Orange - or it might be.
The fact is the phone can't be used because it's been blocked from connecting.
It's probably just that someone has entered some wrong details. It might be part of an insurance fraud
The OP has NO chance of getting the blacklisting removed, but Orange have every chance of doing so and i'd have thought it would be an act of good customer relations for them to replace the OP's phone, take his back, sort out the barring problem, refurb it and sell it.
It's no amount of money to Orange.”
“I'm well aware of how blacklisting works Phil.
It may not be the fault of Orange - or it might be.
The fact is the phone can't be used because it's been blocked from connecting.
It's probably just that someone has entered some wrong details. It might be part of an insurance fraud
The OP has NO chance of getting the blacklisting removed, but Orange have every chance of doing so and i'd have thought it would be an act of good customer relations for them to replace the OP's phone, take his back, sort out the barring problem, refurb it and sell it.
It's no amount of money to Orange.”
Thank you for all your imput I now have a better idea what i will say tomorrow. I have tugged at orange with the customer service angle but to no avail. It might not mean anything to them but its my mums 60th birthday tomorrow and as she is deaf she relies on text messages so we have managed to dig an old unlocked handset out tonight as she will get loads of text messages tomorrow. I have put the sim card in and it seems to be working its better than nothing i suppose.
Originally Posted by Appleseed:
“I'm well aware of how blacklisting works Phil.
It may not be the fault of Orange - or it might be.
The fact is the phone can't be used because it's been blocked from connecting.
It's probably just that someone has entered some wrong details. It might be part of an insurance fraud
The OP has NO chance of getting the blacklisting removed, but Orange have every chance of doing so and i'd have thought it would be an act of good customer relations for them to replace the OP's phone, take his back, sort out the barring problem, refurb it and sell it.
It's no amount of money to Orange.”
“I'm well aware of how blacklisting works Phil.
It may not be the fault of Orange - or it might be.
The fact is the phone can't be used because it's been blocked from connecting.
It's probably just that someone has entered some wrong details. It might be part of an insurance fraud
The OP has NO chance of getting the blacklisting removed, but Orange have every chance of doing so and i'd have thought it would be an act of good customer relations for them to replace the OP's phone, take his back, sort out the barring problem, refurb it and sell it.
It's no amount of money to Orange.”
What you say is true, but its not what you were arguing earlier. You were agreeing that the Sale Of Goods Act applies (when it doesn't).
As we've both said, there are many reasons it could be Blacklisted so its best to let Orange get it sorted (as you point out they are the only ones who can do it) and then get some compensation.
Originally Posted by Darth-Habib:
“If Orange do argue that, if I were the OP, I would point out that when I signed the contract with orange, it was for both service and a handset.
Orange are not delivering the latter, they are not fulfilling their contractual obligations. By not providing a functioning handset/or a replacement therein.”
“If Orange do argue that, if I were the OP, I would point out that when I signed the contract with orange, it was for both service and a handset.
Orange are not delivering the latter, they are not fulfilling their contractual obligations. By not providing a functioning handset/or a replacement therein.”
The vast majority of contracts are for the service not for the handset. But I agree its a good approach to take, but being aware of what the response might be.
Originally Posted by prking:
“What you say is true, but its not what you were arguing earlier. You were agreeing that the Sale Of Goods Act applies (when it doesn't).
As we've both said, there are many reasons it could be Blacklisted so its best to let Orange get it sorted (as you point out they are the only ones who can do it) and then get some compensation.”
“What you say is true, but its not what you were arguing earlier. You were agreeing that the Sale Of Goods Act applies (when it doesn't).
As we've both said, there are many reasons it could be Blacklisted so its best to let Orange get it sorted (as you point out they are the only ones who can do it) and then get some compensation.”
I think it was TeeGee who quoted the sale of goods act, not me.
I merely quoted him, and your reply, to point out that there was something wrong (technically) with the phone in that it wasn't fit for purpose.
I appreciate that the sale of goods may well not apply in this case, but when you think about it, it does fit the criteria, ie, goods must be fit for use as described and i'm sure that somewhere in the user manual it will give instructions on how to make and receive calls and texts - something this particular phone is unable to do.
