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Advice on blacklisted phone |
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#1 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Whitwell, Near Worksop
Posts: 632
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Advice on blacklisted phone
My Mums Blackberry Torch which is only 2 weeks old ( we got it from Orange upgrades) stopped making or receiving text or phone calls last Friday. You can still use the WAP and surf the web. I phoned I contacted Orange who after running a diagnostic said the phone had been reported stolen by one of the other networks! They said it must have been an error and they will contact the UK Blacklist people. we are sat with the phone not doing what we need it to do and Orange say we have to wait until they can find which network have blocked the phone so the can contact them. I want to know how this can happen and who else can I contact to kick some ass! The UK blacklist people don't accept calls from people other than the networks, What should I be saying to Orange as I am fed up of hitting my head on a brick wall!
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#2 |
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 730
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If you got the phone from Orange they should be able to unblacklist it providing you fax/post/email proof of purchase
If you blacklist a phone, it does it against all uk netwroks, so I thought the reverse would be true, any network should be able to unblacklist it, however I may be wrong on that one |
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#3 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,101
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http://www.checkmend.com/uk/
Try it out on there if you want to double check if it's blocked. |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Destination: Hard Brexit
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Quote:
If you got the phone from Orange they should be able to unblacklist it providing you fax/post/email proof of purchase
Blacklisting UK are basically a third party database of blacklisted IMEI's that are shared to the networks, allowing impartiality. |
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#5 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Whitwell, Near Worksop
Posts: 632
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Quote:
If the h/set was blocked by Orange, then we can unlock via our "CS Portal", however if any other network has done it, it is down to Blacklisting UK to determine the network that blacklisted it, and get them to remove the blacklisting.
Blacklisting UK are basically a third party database of blacklisted IMEI's that are shared to the networks, allowing impartiality. |
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#6 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dark Satanic Mills
Posts: 4,821
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Perhaps Orange might respond to a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act?
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#7 |
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Weston-super-Mare
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Quote:
Perhaps Orange might respond to a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act?
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#8 |
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Weston-super-Mare
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Quote:
Cheers for that. It's just annoying that one of the networks has ballsed up and we can't use our phone! Don't suppose there is owt we can do until we find out which network has not done there job right and not checked there numbers against the IMEI
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#9 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3,673
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Quote:
Perhaps Orange might respond to a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act?
Quote:
How would that work then? There's nothing wrong with the handset.
Orange ought to at least replace it with another so that the OP doesn't have to wait around while the blacklisting is removed. |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Aug 2006
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Quote:
How would that work then? There's nothing wrong with the handset.
![]() Edit - As Appleseeds said seconds before me, Orange should replace it immediately. I would camp out in their shop until they do! |
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#11 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Whitwell, Near Worksop
Posts: 632
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Quote:
I was under the impression that the handset would not actually make phone calls! Somehow that does not quite seem to be fit for the purpose
![]() Edit - As Appleseeds said seconds before me, Orange should replace it immediately. I would camp out in their shop until they do! |
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#12 |
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: the wild world web
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Its 2nd hand an Orange upgrades who should be able to swap it out.
A least one would think so. |
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#13 |
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Join Date: May 2002
Location: Crystal Palace TX
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At the very least, one would hope they are not charging your monthly tariff while they are sorting it out...
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#14 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Weston-super-Mare
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Quote:
I was under the impression that the handset would not actually make phone calls! Somehow that does not quite seem to be fit for the purpose
![]() Edit - As Appleseeds said seconds before me, Orange should replace it immediately. I would camp out in their shop until they do! If you bought a car and the police stopped you driving it while they investigated a report it had been stolen, you wouldn't use the sale of goods act against the garage. You would wait until it was sorted and then make a claim for expenses etc against whoever made the mistake. |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Weston-super-Mare
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Quote:
Of course there's something wrong with it - it can't be used for it's intended purpose.
Orange ought to at least replace it with another so that the OP doesn't have to wait around while the blacklisting is removed. It means the network refuses the connection. What you are saying is if you sell me a phone and then someone else blacklists it. The Sale of Goods Act would force you to refund, repair or replace the phone? |
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#16 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 455
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Quote:
Perhaps Orange might respond to a complaint under the Sale of Goods Act?
Terminating your Contract*because Orange is no longer able to provide access to the Network 4.4 If, for reasons beyond our control, we are no longer able to provide the Services, we will at our discretion either: 4.4.1 make arrangements for you to be supplied with equivalent Services by another network at no extra cost to you, or 4.4.2 accept written notice from you that you wish to terminate your Contract. In such cases we will refund any prepaid Charges that have not been used up http://www1.orange.co.uk/mobileterms...ember-2010.pdf if you mention that to them, and reference the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Particularly, Unfair Terms "5.—(1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer." You can argue that it s detriment to you, as it is at their discretion. Because in the Orange T&C's linked above, if you check out sections 3.5, it lists the reasons why you might have access restricted, none of these apply, you can say that is unfair on you, as by no fault of your own, you don't have access to orange services. My own hunch, ask for a temporary/loan handset, whilst yours is unblocked. Last edited by Darth-Habib : 07-12-2010 at 21:13. Reason: tidying up the formatting |
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#17 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Weston-super-Mare
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Quote:
Actually the best avenue is Orange's own T&C's.
Terminating your Contract*because Orange is no longer able to provide access to the Network 4.4 If, for reasons beyond our control, we are no longer able to provide the Services, we will at our discretion either: 4.4.1 make arrangements for you to be supplied with equivalent Services by another network at no extra cost to you, or 4.4.2 accept written notice from you that you wish to terminate your Contract. In such cases we will refund any prepaid Charges that have not been used up http://www1.orange.co.uk/mobileterms...ember-2010.pdf if you mention that to them, and reference the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 Particularly, Unfair Terms "5.—(1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer." You can argue that it s detriment to you, as it is at their discretion. Because in the Orange T&C's linked above, if you check out sections 3.5, it lists the reasons why you might have access restricted, none of these apply, you can say that is unfair on you, as by no fault of your own, you don't have access to orange services. My own hunch, ask for a temporary/loan handset, whilst yours is unblocked. I still think it would be better to wait to see why the handset is Blacklisted (there are several alternative possibilities, eg there have been cases where Blackberry handsets have been given incorrect IMEI) and then seek compensation for expenses. |
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#18 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 455
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Quote:
It may be that Orange could argue that it is the use of the handset which is restricted by an outside party, not the service which is still provided by Orange (the OP's SIM will work in another handset)
Orange are not delivering the latter, they are not fulfilling their contractual obligations. By not providing a functioning handset/or a replacement therein. |
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#19 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 3,673
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Quote:
You don't seem to understand how blacklisting works, its not something that's done to the phone.
It means the network refuses the connection. What you are saying is if you sell me a phone and then someone else blacklists it. The Sale of Goods Act would force you to refund, repair or replace the phone? It may not be the fault of Orange - or it might be. The fact is the phone can't be used because it's been blocked from connecting. It's probably just that someone has entered some wrong details. It might be part of an insurance fraud The OP has NO chance of getting the blacklisting removed, but Orange have every chance of doing so and i'd have thought it would be an act of good customer relations for them to replace the OP's phone, take his back, sort out the barring problem, refurb it and sell it. It's no amount of money to Orange. |
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#20 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Whitwell, Near Worksop
Posts: 632
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Quote:
I'm well aware of how blacklisting works Phil.
It may not be the fault of Orange - or it might be. The fact is the phone can't be used because it's been blocked from connecting. It's probably just that someone has entered some wrong details. It might be part of an insurance fraud The OP has NO chance of getting the blacklisting removed, but Orange have every chance of doing so and i'd have thought it would be an act of good customer relations for them to replace the OP's phone, take his back, sort out the barring problem, refurb it and sell it. It's no amount of money to Orange. |
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#21 |
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Inactive Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Whitwell, Near Worksop
Posts: 632
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Once again cheers to everyone. I will be giving them a call tomorrow,
Simon x |
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#22 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Weston-super-Mare
Posts: 9,167
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Quote:
I'm well aware of how blacklisting works Phil.
It may not be the fault of Orange - or it might be. The fact is the phone can't be used because it's been blocked from connecting. It's probably just that someone has entered some wrong details. It might be part of an insurance fraud The OP has NO chance of getting the blacklisting removed, but Orange have every chance of doing so and i'd have thought it would be an act of good customer relations for them to replace the OP's phone, take his back, sort out the barring problem, refurb it and sell it. It's no amount of money to Orange. As we've both said, there are many reasons it could be Blacklisted so its best to let Orange get it sorted (as you point out they are the only ones who can do it) and then get some compensation. |
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#23 |
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Forum Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Quote:
If Orange do argue that, if I were the OP, I would point out that when I signed the contract with orange, it was for both service and a handset.
Orange are not delivering the latter, they are not fulfilling their contractual obligations. By not providing a functioning handset/or a replacement therein. |
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#24 |
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Join Date: Sep 2006
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Quote:
What you say is true, but its not what you were arguing earlier. You were agreeing that the Sale Of Goods Act applies (when it doesn't).
As we've both said, there are many reasons it could be Blacklisted so its best to let Orange get it sorted (as you point out they are the only ones who can do it) and then get some compensation. I merely quoted him, and your reply, to point out that there was something wrong (technically) with the phone in that it wasn't fit for purpose. I appreciate that the sale of goods may well not apply in this case, but when you think about it, it does fit the criteria, ie, goods must be fit for use as described and i'm sure that somewhere in the user manual it will give instructions on how to make and receive calls and texts - something this particular phone is unable to do. |
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