You thought....wrong.

Surely it's merely a question of the relative and the absolute.

One can make an argument that Gavin (no dance training, seriously awful seen-a-mannequin-dance-with-more flair at the beginning) has come a great deal further than all those remaining. Relatively, he has therefore learnt a good deal more dancing in his period on strictly than the rest of them. he's still way behind the others, of course, if by 'judging on the dancing' you mean, judging on the final level which the contestant attains.

Of course, this is all semantics. I'm honest enough to know I would rather see Gavin in the final because no matter how poor he's been, I find him fundamentally more entertaining than Pamela or Scott, who I would gladly see booted off at the weekend. For me, the optimal final three are matt, kara and gavin, for the balance of dance and entertainment.

But I detest Pamela Stephenson.

Not, of course, that I ever, or have ever, voted....

I don't really agree that Gavin is now good though. Yes he's progressed slightly from where he started but not by much. He's not a dancer I'm afraid. I do judge it on what level someone is at by this stage and I don't really take into account where they started. It's just whether they're good enough to deserve a place in the final and as far as I'm concerned, Gavin isn't good enough to be there. But I don't begrudge people thinking he is, we all have different criteria that matter to us. But if he gets there at the expense of the best two dancers (Kara and Scott) I will find it very difficult to watch the final. A final without Kara or Scott would bore me I feel and I would probably be too enraged at the injustice to want to tune in. But if he gets there at the expense of Pamela or Matt, while I would feel it's totally wrong and unfair (because obviously Matt and Pam are way beyond Gavin), I wouldn't cry myself to sleep because we would at least still be left with the best two.

Oh good God no, I wasn't for one minute suggesting he was a bad boy! He's the sort of boy your parents would want you to take home. I'd prefer Slash, personally That's what I call a bad boy musical hero.


I could not possibly comment on whether Peter Andre has a twinkle or not. I suspect not. Or if he does it's very very small.

I don't think he's good either. As I said, I'm happy to admit my reasons are not merely about dancing. I also happen to think that even those who claim it is all about the dancing are no doubt a little bit swayed by personal preferences.

Oh I have my personal favourites - I really loved Louisa Lytton in series 4, she was a complete sweetheart and it remains my favourite partnership with Vincent. But when it came down to her or Emma Bunton (who I didn't particularly like but in my opinion should have won that series) I was glad the judges chose frosty Emma because she was a better dancer. When my personal preference matches who I believe to be the best dancer in any given year (Alesha and now Kara) that's when my Strictly love goes into the stratosphere lol. When it's just about admiring their dancing (Ricky, Emma, Tom, Lisa, Rachel) I do throw a vote their way late on in the competition because I think they should win but it doesn't compare to my obsession level in say series 5 or this year. The perfect partnerships for me combine my personal favourite and the best dancer in their given series but it's not necessary for me to love or even like a person to believe they should win and it's not a given that I want my personal favourite to win every year either - for me the best dancer should win, end of.

I guess I understand that you might want A to win, but acknowledge that B deserves to, dance-wise. But this isn't a dance exam, it's a saturday night tv show. There are no consequences for the winner or loser, really. I'm afraid I don't really understand why you don't support your personal favourite.

Indeed, one could argue that the sole point of the show is to entertain and engage, not to test people's dancing ability. If someone is a great dancer, and engaging, great. But if they are a great dancer but you don't find them engaging, then they have failed to fulfil that all important, criteria. Why have them win?

Of course, totally up to you, etc. etc. Just seems a bit...unnecessary.

I don't rate Gavin because most of his dances have been poor. However he is light years ahead of Ann who must surely be the worst contestant ever.

Ive just read the whole of this thread whilst pmsl half the time. Most entertainment Ive had for a couple of days... (blame it on the tenants in the flat above, think they are having a trampoline party with the ceiling).

I have supported Gavin the last 2 or 3 weeks purely because my fav (Jimi) got knocked out. I was supporting him and trying to keep him in purely because he WAS NOT THE WORST DANCER.. (Widders had that title).

Isnt all this commenting a little academic because as yet we have never had to vote with Gavin at the bottom of the leaderboard and as such until Saturday night it is all a bit in the air?

I may or may not vote again on Saturday night depending on how the pairs dance.

One thing that no one can say is that Gavin has NOT TRIED TO IMPROVE. When I saw him first in the launch programme and how shy he was, I thought he might be out week one or two - but he has really knuckled down and learnt to dance - and another skill probably more challenging than that - to dance intimately with Katya, which he was obviously scared out of wits of.

I applaud him for his perseverance with this whole dancing thing because it can't have been easy. He has most certainly come a long way - he might not be the best (but he has improved probably more than some of the others, who already had a performing background).

I don't have a problem with Gavin still being in. All the others had previous dance training to some degree and seem to have some natural dance ability. Poor Gavin has neither but has been working really hard and has improved much more than many of the other dancers have.
While I would be very disappointed if Gavin won, I am not unhappy that he is left in the competition; because I think we have been left with him and the best four dancers. If he stays in and one of them leaves I will be annoyed though.

I haven't read the entire thread, but voting for Gavin is only hypocritical if you think the best dancer should win.

Some people (including myself) have no issues with the best dancer not winning. It can be annoying sometimes, but that's the voting public for you.

But some people (including myself) do have an issue with contestants who are actually anti-dance and refuse to do certain dances properly or certain moves within dances because they think they're immoral or whatever.

Gavin might not be very good, but he has embraced the competition with an open mind and has made a genuine effort. If people want to vote for him because of that, then so be it.

Ann didn't embrace the competition with an open mind and hardly made an effort, which is why her winning would have set a nasty precedent.

The hostility towards Ann wasn't just because she a crap dancer; it was mostly because of her negativity.

(Emma's latin was pants)

Gavin just doesn't love or feel the dance -- he wants to win because the winning is everything.
Chris Hollins and the Gough weren't the best dancers but embraced the whole experience and it showed in their faces.
With Gavin there is no joy.

Which is why it can never be a purely dance competition. Even if by some fluke either of Kara/Pam/Matt/Scott had been knocked out in week one Gavin still be here he wouldn't have reached their week one level, and not through any lack of trying.

However, if you say the week one leader board was any indication of the top finishers then joint top is Matt/Pamela, 2nd Kara and third Scott. Proping them up then, as now, was Gavin in 4th (or 5th) place.

So really, the series has been quite neatly bookended

But in a way it was a cracking precursor.

It just goes to show that cutting through all the thorny arguements of week long voting, dance off versus non dance off, percieved dance experience versus no dance experience, day jobs and stress or lack thereof, sportsman, men leading, comedy versus entertaiment that things seem to pan out pretty similar in the end and the biggest help or hinderence to a celeb winning or going far in the competition is the celeb themselves.

I think the judges have already decided that the winner of Strictly 2010 is Pamela and James. They have been ridiculously overmarked since day one!! They heap praise on to her constantly although Kara is a better dancer. Poor old Gav, Matt and Scott haven't got a chance of winning!!!

So in your eyes Gav is a better dancer than Pamela (because otherwise you wouldn't lament his chances of winning in comparison to Pamela). I don't think the judges have decided anything this year, because they like most of us see that we have four very good dance couples left (with Gav fulfilling the mothering, sexy, journey type).

Depending on the dance on the night, it's anyones game, which makes it exciting. Pamela won't be able to win on the judges scores alone, if she is isn't liked by the public.

This thought always amuses me too. After all the cries of "Strictly has died!" "It never used to be like this!" "People are just voting against the judges- that never used to happen!" "Remember Jill Halfpenny? She'd be voted out week 4 nowadays, we'll never get a female winner again!" it's quite reassuring to go back and realise that no, we were just as contrary way back in series 1 as we are now.

Tangerine_82, I don't know how to multiquote but I largely agree with your post about personal favourites vs. who you want to win. I would only add the proviso that for me it's more about wanting (at least most of) the finalists to be good dancers than anything else because I want to see a real performance show in the final. If I'm honest, I normally have 5 or 6 favourites at the beginning of the series but much as I like Gavin, I don't especially want him in the final because I don't really like his dancing and at the end of the day, that is what I will be watching in the final. If I were instead voting for somebody to be interviewed every day on ITT next week, I'd vote for him and Katya along with Kara and Artem. Just because I like somebody as a person, doesn't actually mean I like to watch them dance though. I know that I'm probably in the minority there and it really doesn't bother me to know that other people would vote out one of the best dancers to keep in one of the most improved/ most interesting characters but for me the best final of recent years was undoubtedly series 5- thoroughly competitive, brilliant dancing from both contestants (even though I'd really wanted Gethin there over Matt) and after worrying about it all night, my personal favourite for both personality and dancing won. I will be sad to see Gavin go if he does leave on Saturday but I can't honestly say I'd miss his dancing in the final, and that for me is what it comes down to at the end of the series.

I was not keen on Gavin's dancing till about a month ago. His progression has been massive and depending on the dance, he could make it through purely on merit and not only because of everything else that makes a finalist (personality, good partner & choreography etc).

BTW Ann was utterly pants and her performances could never be called dances.

Bimey. did you even read the OP? You've managed to totally miss the entire point of the thread.

I totally argee with you. However although it wouldn't annoy as much as Ann I think it would be a shame if Gavin deprives one of the fab four of a final place but then that's just me. I don't think he's going to win so I'm not worried about it. I think Kara should probably win but none of the others would bother me that much.

Rubbish - even if that's true which I'd only argee about Kara being a better dancer out of that rant. The public always have the final say - Lisa was shoe-horned into the final by the judges and given an unprecedent 80 score she didn't deserve and the public still voted her off first - the fact she proceeded to a swan song of one of the worse showdances ever and Tom's was awesome just vindicated the public vote.

I'm liking Gavin's hips, it's crept up on me.

C'mon Gav. Bring it home!

This is what i hated last year.

I'm all for people voting for who they like, it's not always about the 'best dancers' and i've not always supported the best. But with all the hate John got a few years ago "its a dancing show, he shouldn't be staying over better dancers" etc etc and then the year after we have Chris (who was better than John) but he wasn't that good.

And its been the same this year with Ann.

It does seem to suit folk when it's someone they like.

I think what got up people's noses with Ann was not that she was bad, but that she didn't try.