You know the level of respect I have for you, Monkseal, so please forgive me when I say that I think you're confusing the idea of connection with the idea of support.

I'd also put it to you that nobody's being rude about Matt because his particular elephant isn't actually related to his performance or personality (unlike Gavin's lack of dance skills or Kara's professed adoration of Artem). If he's got an elephant, it's Aliona's choreography, which has been abused roundly throughout the series.

I love Matt
Gavin is cute and makes me laugh, but its Matt all the way


Go Baker go
He's just fabulous, so talented
and I love his accent!

I agree, I think this stage of the competition always brings out the negative threads and posts. Everyone feels very passionately and if you're anything like me, you remember the posts insulting your favourite far more than a post insulting someone you don't care about or that you agree with.

Oh my word it is hardly an anti-Matt thread! I have loved Matt from the start, I was just saying that I (and maybe other people) feel that his connection with the audience is dwindling a little! Mostly down to the 'elephant' which would be Aliona's choreography and putting too many gimmicks and gymnastic moves in it! Lorelei Lee knows what I mean

Sorry to put words in hism mouth, but I think Monkseal's elephant is Ann. Nearly all the other contestants' supporters could get behind the dislike of Ann or at least feel neutral, whereas now she's gone the support and insults have fractured to all of the others rather than just one person.

The board is no longer united in their dislike of Ann.

And sorry to disagree, but if I follow your logic Matt's elephant is definitely related to performance. Yes, it's about Aliona's choreography but surely he's performing that choreography. It's also a number of other things, his strange facial expressions, his lack of acting ability, sometimes his posture, his whining, it's all sorts of things related to him and I don't really mind him so I'm not sticking the boot in as some of these points I agree with and some I don't.

The OPs original post appears to have been born out of them seeing a lack of support for Matt over Gavin in a particular thread, and thinking that the forums had turned against Matt on the basis of this evidence. I was just saying I don't think it's reflective of the forum as a whole. I think it's clear that anti-Matts were just flocking to the thread because it was an obvious tool to wind Matt fans up.

When I said Matt wasn't particularly a victim I didn't mean at all, I just meant comparatively. Everyone left is getting trashed currently, because Ann's gone, and she was always everyone's favourite chew toy. (And the elephant in the room, because an awful lot of discussion tended to be about Ann in some way, even if they didn't focus around her specifically)

Re Aliona's choreography, that's my point a bit. I don't think the perception of Aliona's choreography or Matt's dancing has changed since the beginning, so I don't think any connection has been "lost" per se : her (and his) style is distinctive and personal enough that if you like it you like it, and if you don't you don't, and that's been the same since day 1, amongst Matt fans and non-Matt fans. Compare this with, say, Katya, where the general opinion of her choreography has fluctuated wildly all series depending on how well Gavin was doing at a particular time.

I meant in general and not specifically this thread, I was replying specifically to what Monkseal said.

He starts with the advantage of a BBC following from daytime and early evening TV that probably overlaps with SCD's audience. There's a limit to the audience for The One Show or watching a man with a sheep dog though. He's also got a wet schoolboy persona that seems to appeal to some. One big problem is that he can't act and plays himself even when trying to be something else - he's totally unconvincing in any role. His other problem is his gymnastics background. This suggests he starts from a big advantage and, unlike Kara, his gymnastics usually have no role in the dance but look like, show off, add ons that detract from the rst of it. As he can't act, and he does the same, or similar, irrelevant, gymnastic moves every week, he's not showing much sign of progression and doesn't therefore have any story either.

If Scott wasn't also there trying to squeeze SCD in on top of his day job. and if Scott wasn't more inconsistent, Matt might be in real trouble. As it is. I suspect the John Noakes/Shep 2 vote may keep him in longer than his ability would.

In a general election there is nothing so dangerous as late momentum moving against your party.

Last year Aliona was evicted with Rav in week 2, Rav with a muscular body type not that different from Gavin. Gavin with Katya are still here and smiling in week 10.

After I believe Aliona's first dance with Rav, Len said something along the lines that the pro dancer should not showcase herself at the expense of the celeb. Len was a little embarassed to say this because one pro dancer does not criticize another on Strictly. I have never heard such a comment before or since. I completely agreed with Len. Aliona had ignored Rav giving him up as a lost cause from the beginning, and had flaunted her own figure at stage centre as if it were a solo dance competition.

Matt did fine in ONE dance. Almost completely out of hold, with Aliona on the other side of the floor -- was it the samba? His 3 final backflips brought the house down earning his top score of 38 - Matt was the star that time.

In all other dances I sensed that Aliona wanted to be the star, most obviously in the dance with a New York theme. Matt started on his knees with his head on the floor, face buried, and finished on his knees with his head on the floor, face buried. Both times Aliona towered above him like the Statue of Liberty. In between Matt frantically ran rings round Aliona, then lifted her high like the Statue of Liberty.

Leaving celeb voting aside for a moment, rank the 5 pro dancers for what each brought to the partnership:

Aliona, Artem, Natalie, Katya, James.

No it's not. I find it interesting to know why Matt started as being so popular and full of potential, and something isn't working for him because I do feel that his popularity has decreased and Gavin has become more popular. That's why I came to the thread.

I wouldn't say a handful of posters constitutes a flock either.

BTW, I'm a Matt fan but his dancing just hasn't moved me

While I disagree wholeheartedly with all of this, I'm not in the mood to counteract and will just point out that he can act, he played the part of Austin Powers perfectly and in his Foxtrot he was domineering and intense.

I agree with Sid. I just can't seem to like him. I can't put my finger on why though!

You're certainly not speaking for me, I would place him firmly in my top 2! Aliona's choreography is clearly working as they're still in the competition and so are clearly getting the votes! Katya has never choreographed anything I've really liked (maybe Gavin's waltz, but that's all), and I find Gavin as dull as dishwater and have done since week 1. Natalie is a great ballroom choreographer but I don't really rate her Latin (she's a lovely lady though, very easy to talk to and very sweet) and Scott annoys me. Aliona may not be a master of either genre compared to some of the other pros, but she's innovative and they stand out, which is exciting to me, not boring. So I'm a Matt fan, but I appreciate not everyone is.

I don't think this forum is really an accurate indicator of much at all - look at the amount of posts up in the attic in the Appreciation threads and it shows that a lot of Matt fans simply don't venture out into the main forum.

Playing Austin Powers was a silly idea. His image is wimpish anyway so even if he succeeded he confirmed the image and it didn't look like he was achieving anything. If people thought he just looked silly, it just confirmed he couldn't act. It would have been braver and more useful to him to have tried and pulled off the James Bond role - but the risk would have been looking like a wimpish Bond.

I'm not a Matt supporter as such, but I certainly don't think his performances are mediocre. Unlike many, I loved his AS and the Jive last week I wasn't so keen on because I can't stand the Austin Powers stuff, or the 60s style of music that he danced to. I think he does a fab job every week and does exactly what Aliona tells him to do. He comes over well to me on ITT as well. I do think Aliona might be a problem - especially her choreography, but I still think the final two will be Matt and Kara.

I fancy Gavin more than I fancy Matt, but I'm not going to vote for Gavin just for that reason!

I thought Matt was great at the start and I still really like him now and would be happy if he won. I must admit though that I also find him a little frustrating.

It was obvious from week 1 that he was someone with the potential to produce amazing dances. Even though he has beem consistently good however, I don't feel that he has ever quite hit the heights that his talent can reach.

I think this is simply due to lack of training. With his workload on Country File and The One Show, he has less opportunity to train than anyone except Scott (who, despite a couple of 'wow' dances also seems to be struggling to fulfill his potential). The result of this is that he almost has to 'blag' his way through the dance, getting by on natural talent rather than having truly honed the performance in training.

As an interesting comparison, the week that Kara was unable to train much due to Artem's injury, she produced a rather lacklustre jive. And we all saw the effect that a busy work schedule had on Scott. Matt has had to deal with a crazy workload and a lack of training every single week and has still managed to be 'very good' week in, week out. I think the audience (and the judges for that matter) know that he could be 'fantastic' though and are perhaps feeling a bit short-changed by him being merely 'very good'.

Matt's performances aren't mediocre, they're just not as good as they could be. I don't think Aliona is choreographing to his strengths. With another celeb, her dances might succeed better but Matt's talents lie in different directions imo. It's frustrating when a celeb starts at such a high level (as Matt did - his cha cha was great) and then simply continues to pull out good, consistent but not really "wow" performances all series. Aliona has a partner with a lot of potential but for whatever reason, the audience have only seen a fraction of it realised and now that the end is getting near, the thinking may well be (certainly for me) that we're never going to see this admittedly very good dancer metamorphose into a great one.

I think that was the rumba, where Rav pretty much stood still as Aliona moved around him. That was because he was rubbish. Other pros who have had a rubbish celeb do exactly the same thing and will always do exactly the same thing - Ola in her rumba with Kenny Logan, Kristina and Anton in, well, pretty much any dance with John and Ann spring to mind.

Aliona's ideas on choreography are pretty different, sure, and I wouldn't expect everyone to like them at all - but I would definitely refute the idea that her routines are all about her. I mean, why have Matt do any backflips at all if she's so keen to hog the limelight?

Anyway, back to the point.

I think it's the other way round tabitha. Aliona has focused exclusively on Matt's strengths and hasn't worked on his weaknesses enough, hence why his dancing has stagnated.

If the pair of them spent less time worrying about nailing backflips, and more time accessing and exploring Matt's emotions and interpreting the music, we might have seen some development. Even bringing in an acting coach could have helped.

Instead, we just get more of the same week after week.

I think we both mean the same thing - you just don't realise it yet . I agree, Matt's acting/emoting is generally a problem yet Aliona insists on giving him complicated stories to tell which don't really hit the mark. My point was that while that type of routine might work with someone more naturally gifted in that direction (Scott maybe?), Matt seems to be struggling with it and something simpler/classic might well suit him better. Of course you're right - addressing the weaknesses and working on them instead of blindly continuing and expecting things to work out may well also have worked!

Matt sometimes treats Strictly as he would Countryfile, where he's used to being the centre of attention. In the end some people can have too much of a good thing.
It's as much about people liking the contestants personality on here, as it is anything else.

As I've said elsewhere, I've seen enough of his "floor exercises"

Time for the pommel horse, vault, parallel bars, still rings, or high bar, or dare I say it more dancing?

you are not speaking for me either

Love Matt and would vote for him over Gavin

I'm repeating myself, but apart from his week one dance - back then I thought he would become my favourite - there is not one of Matt's routines that has left me thinking "That was good!"

When I think of dances deserving of the final, I think of Scott's Tango, Quickstep and Jive. Or Kara's Paso, Argentine Tango, Foxtrot, Salsa. I don't think of any of Matt's routines, or Pamela's for that matter, that make me want to see them again.

So here is where I am; in the final I would really like to see Scott and Kara reprise their best routines. Alongside them, I would be quite happy to see Gavin as I think of all 5 left, he is the one still improving. It would be of more interest (to me!) to see how much his routines have come on since we saw him originally perform them, than to watch either of the other two, who have basically flatlined.

I have nothing against Matt or Pamela. I'm not anti-either and I do expect one of them, at least, to be in the final three. I won't be bitter about that, they just wouldnt be my personal choice for a finalist, is all.

Anton and Ola did have to dance rings round a stationary statue, otherwise there would have been two stationary persons on the dance floor. Ola started choreographing basic rumba for Kenny, but when she found he had no ear for rhythm at all, opted for safety. Kristina never once choreographed John Sergeant to stand still while she danced in revealing costumes to upstage him. She showcased John to be the best he could be and encouraged him with eye contact all the way through.

Let the jury review YouTube "Aliona Rav rumba" and decide for themselves. Was Aliona showcasing herself to the exclusion of Rav?. From what I remember she flaunted the full length of her figure placing herself between the camera and Rav. Muscle-bound Gavin was not much better than Rav. If choreographed to move like Rav, Gavin may have gone out in week 2 also. Nobody will say Katya does not showcase her celeb. Kristina never ignored John. Even with Matt I have the impression Aliona was absorbed in herself. The 3 backflips was a good exception, more is needed.

Was Len right?

Don't listen to Len, personally reckon he is a con merchant and tells us his angle on things. About time the bosses got rid of him as he is an analogue judge in a digital age.