I agree, but I think the reason so many tens have been given this year is because the judges have left themselves nowhere to go because they have been marking other lesser routines too high. That is what happened tonight, they marked Pamela too high for an average dance and then when Kara came out and did an amazing Dance, even though it was'nt quite perfect they had to give her 10s , because it was so much better that Pamelas.

Errrrrrrrrrr[LIST][*]Because it is still supposed to be a Ballroom dance show with rules?
Because the better you are, the more important it is that you observe the rules as in the end as the poorer dancers will inevitably generally go out first?
Because the closer you get to final and the tighter the points are, the more judges votes matter?
Because the judges are hardly more likely to be well disposed to professionals who make it clear that they think the judges opinions don't matter?
Because if you really can dance, you don't need to hide your lack of ability with props and gimmicks?[/LIST]

what's everyone's problem on here with Pamela?! She's really good and deserved to be 2nd tonight!

I suspect that Aliona is playing to the new rules this year and choreographing for the viewers.

I think Aliona is quite capable of choreographing a very good 'normal' routine anytime she chooses, eg Rav's Rumba in week one last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rqx8tMaLkE

Yes, if the public vote was the exact opposite to the judges scores, then the top couple on the leader board would finish equal bottom and hence be eliminated.

Not IMO. I have no problem with Pamela just don't see her as a fantastic dancer, Just my opinion which we are all entitled to.

Thing is, Scott was really p*ss poor with latin hip movement. Matt is good, but he overdoes it and spoils it. Scott knows his limits. Matt has higher potential, but over-reached it.

About whether Matt will be mulling over Alesha's criticism if she were to say Gavin;s better than him, that's pure conjecture, and it's based on your subjective surmise.

As I recalled, Matt said he danced his AS, feeling top of the world, and Alesha completely slated it. And he laughed out loud. Didn't see him grumbling, to be fair...

And as for Kara's underscoring, she was never really criticised, well because she was almost always good, and even her worse moments like her jive she scored well. She was not underscored, Pam was overscored, so it made it looks like she's underscored.

And I say this even as a Kara supporter! Gosh, I need to be more partisan!

Yes and I respect that. I just don't like how people (not necessarily you) are calling her horrible names just because they prefer the other dancers and they go in a strop if they are lower than others on the table

Fair point, I agree with that !

Yes there's loads of ways if it's bottom 2, you're usually fine if you're top because it's only the bottom person that goes out, and so the least you can score at top of leaderboard for 5 is 6.

But this time it's 2 going out and so it's quite easy for anyone to finish in bottom 2 tomorrow. There are so many permutations. I think you're only going to be safe if you're top of leaderboard AND popular.

Thanks

It is the same every year with different dancers

At the end of the day it is a discussion forum and everyone should be able to air their views. I say this as a huge Pamela fan (and she has taken a bit of a battering on here this year) and let posts go over my head - I find it best not to take it all too seriously and enjoy the show for what it is now that Ann has left.

Kara & Artem.......39 + 5 = 44
Pam & James......35 + 3 = 38
Scott & Natalie.....33 + 2 = 35
Matt & Aliona.......28 + 4 = 32
Gavin & Katya......27 + 1 = 28

Hi Fatskia - but yes that is my point, she could choreograph to judges taste if she wanted but she has decided on a different strategy and it has worked in so far as Matt is still in the comp but given that he is potentially the best dancer even above Kara, then it is a mistaken strategy. She & Matt don't have a 'goodwill' bank to draw on - with the judges or even the public - because however pleasing their dances, I don't think there are many that will be actively remembered.

I really liked Aliona's contemporary AS and thought the Samba was great and have watched both a number of times. Aliona has been requested by many on here to cut out the props and just include dancing, and she did that with the Salsa.

I think the new rules have resulted in a lowering of the standard they have to aim at, hence even Kara, who is probably the best ever, will not produce many dances that I will think are the best ever of their type, even though her dancing is the best.

After tonight I'd say Kara would be a deserving winner, Scott and Pamela would be worthy winners, Matt would be a lucky winner and Gavin would be a jammy winner

Nicely put LL!

Kara really is streets ahead now. She's getting stronger and stronger whereas others have reached a plateau or are getting weaker.

I think the longer the series is going on, the more of a problem I am having with anyone but Kara winning. She is now so much better than the others, it would feel like she had been totally robbed!

I was fine at one point with any of the "top 4" winning, then it was anyone but Scott after AS, then anyone but Scott and Matt after his AS and jive and salsa, now if Pamela doesn't have a decent 2nd dance tomorrow, it will be anyone but Scott, Matt and Pamela, which leaves Kara!

Aliona is not the only pro who isn't observng the 'rules' (and I use the term loosely because there might as well have not been any this year for all it's been enforced), and if it's to do with lifts in the salsa, I thought they're allowed.

There is nothing to say that better dancers should stick to the rules more - if the poorer dancers do not, why should the better dancers be expected to just because they're better?

The judges' vote does not matter in the final, and if they score high this weekend they'll either save their favourites or make them suffer from accusations of over-marking while those at the bottom of the leaderboard get the sympathy vote, so I doubt it'll make much difference this week either. The public vote is the final arbiter.

They don't need to be well-disposed to a couple if that couple is popular with the public, as has clearly been shown this series, I don't need to name names there! And why should the be more generally disposed towards a couple anyway?

I've seen every couple use copious amounts of props this series, so that's not a unique criticism of Aliona & Matt.

I'm not trying to say Aliona's choreography is good, it will never be to everyone's taste, and she's neither a ballroom nor Latin specialist so she'll never produce the most fabulous choreography for either genre. But my point is that her choreography does not have to be 'good' in the eyes of the judges to be effective overall. She's playing a blinder imo, just as Ola did last year, and that worked out perfectly. It may not be standard choreography, but the show is not standard this year, and with the tools at her disposal Aliona is being very clever in going for the public vote rather than the judges' vote.

What a very odd show that was!

Pamela is not my favourite, but I admire her a lot, and admired her all over again for wearing that dress and looking like a saloon girl from the Wild West. You go, girl. The nation's favourite modern poem is Jenny Joseph's 'When I am old I will wear purple', but in reality when older people say 'what the hell - I'll wear what I want' there is a chorus of disapproval and mutterings of 'mutton dressed as lamb'!

Oh, and it was a bloody good paso as well.

Now Kara is my favourite, but I was slightly disappointed with the Viennese Whirl (copyright Bonnie). Yes, beautiful lines, beautiful shadow dancing, lovely twirly bits (technical term), but they broke out of hold too often and yes, her foot did come off the floor, albeit accidentally. It wasn't as good as Alesha's, Len.

Aw, Gavin 'get away from the mirror!' Henson. Dreadful samba, but I loved the ending and I thought Katya did a terrific job of showcasing his (limited) talent. Great music choice, too.

I nearly fell asleep during Scott's Argentine Tango. :yawn: Sorry. The opening was fandabbydoozy but then it was all Natalie, with Scott acting like the lamp-post while she swung around him. What was all that about?

Oh dear, oh dearie dear. Matt fans will be spitting blood after his mauling by the judges and I do think they were very harsh, but it was a very, very average salsa. It was also very reminiscent of Scott's AT - obviously not the dance itself, but the way Matt was used to throw Aliona around, rather than having Matt doing a bit of, you know, salsa or something.

But, even though I didn't like the dance, I'm on the side of the conspiracy theorists here. First his VT had him being more than a teensy bit arrogant about getting to the final, then he gets the harshest criticism of any of the contestants this evening, and certainly the harshest criticism he's received so far. To me, it looks contrived. My guess is that they are manufacturing a close contest to counter all that 'Matt has got it in the bag' talk. When he gets through to the final (I'll eat my hat if he doesn't) and wins it, it will be the public wot put him there. It's Tom Chambers all over again. Sigh.

And then the bloody swingathon. I really don't see how anybody could tell what was going on, who was good, who was bad, who was giving it their all and who was marking time. I certainly couldn't tell, so we'll just have to trust the judges. From what I saw, I liked what Pamela and James were doing, but as I couldn't even see Kara and Artem I have no idea if they won fairly or not. Please God they don't bring it back next year.

Oops, sorry, long post.

can't help that the producers want a lame final, thanks a bunch bbc.

Can you pin point when Pam has been under scored because imo she has been over scored on practically every dance she was dreadful in the swingathon and came 3rd!!!!!

First off, completely unrelated to the above, it's nice to wake up seeing more and more Kara love spreading around.

And to answer diy's question, I can't recall any dance Pam was correctly scored, nevermind underscored.

Watching this back while ploughing through the (lack of) finances ... totally giggling at Gav and Katya's VT (Get away from the mirror... get away" and "headache in heels"... Movement of a plank (as some say) but hilarious!!!! I can't help but smile at him.

Awful though the swingathon was I am simply deeply grateful that Ann wasnt in it .
Last night was so much more enjoyable and back to its roots without Ann and Antons Vaudaville nonsense .

I thought Kara was miles ahead of the whole posse , no one came even close to being as good as her ,That VW was divine .