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  • Strictly Come Dancing
The Matt dilemma
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Dollystanford
12-12-2010
I generally pick my winner in the first week and don't deviate unless something really floats my boat

kara's the only one for me - I'm 35, from Essex, white (british), bit of a girl back in the day, all fingers and toes present and correct, like a man with a bit of a tummy

how many people do I represent
-Sid-
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by peeve:
“I've not cared enough over the last couple of series really to have a favourite. I voted like mad for Alesha, but didn't vote a lot in either of the last two series, because I knew neither of my favourites would win. So I predicted the winner, without necessarily voting for them, if that makes sense.”

I think that's the crucial point, Whose fans feel more passionately about their favourite? Lots of people seem to appreciate Kara's dancing, but to they feel strongly enough to pick up the phone and vote (and multiple times)?

By the way, just out of curiosity, did you want Donal to win instead of Ray on DOI?!
ElectraPalatine
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by zamboanga:
“I think Matt is likely to win the competition, and have done so since the very first two weeks. The reason? Observing my wife. She is 60, so absolutely in the main demographic for Strictly, she has watched every series, and the celebrity she has liked has won every time.

She loves Countryfile, and she loves Matt. Before SCD started she was interested in how he would perform, and nervous that he would not be very good. She has been delighted how good he has been. She is nervous every week when he performs, and worried that the judges will criticise him because she thinks that will affect the votes of the general public. She has no idea this forum exists, or that the resuts come out in spoilers on Saturday.

And now we get to the important point. She loves the intensity he shows in his dances and in his face, precisely the things the judges cticise him for. She thinks it shows real emotion, a real, handsome young man dancing with a pretty young woman, learning as he goes along, but honest in his emotion. She thinks Artem is just a professional dancer, showing the acting of a professional dancer, but Matt is real. She thinks Kara is very good, but has the advantage of having been taught before.

I think my wife is very representative of a big chunk of the voting demographic, which is why I expect Matt's vote to go through the roof after what happened on Friday, and for him to win the whole competition.

I also think that last week's Austin Powers dance will have gone down very well with the pre-teen audience.

So....

If you were Matt and/or Aliona what would you do in these circumstances
- dial back on the facial and dancing intensity, so as to improve the 'purity of the dance', and lose the connection with your audience who love that intensity [after all, who did the BBC posters overwhelmingly vote as the most passionate couple?]
- or keep going for the maximum intensity and athleticism because that is what connnects with your fanbase?

What would you do?

]”

This is indeed, a troubling dilemma, and one which calls to mind the Schleswig-holstein question: should the people of Schleswig-Holstein have sacrificed generations of association with Denmark to ally to the German Confederation? Out with the old and bring on the new, or keep to the old order and hope your citizens will remain loyal. Mmm. It’s a knotty problem. I shall have to think further on it.
Doghouse Riley
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by ElectraPalatine:
“This is indeed, a troubling dilemma, and one which calls to mind the Schleswig-holstein question: should the people of Schleswig-Holstein have sacrificed generations of association with Denmark to ally to the German Confederation? Out with the old and bring on the new, or keep to the old order and hope your citizens will remain loyal. Mmm. It’s a knotty problem. I shall have to think further on it.”


I understand what you're saying but to put it more simply it's similar to that perennial question.

"Daddy or chips?"
fancynancy
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“I understand what you're saying but to put it more simply it's similar to that perenial question.

"Daddy or chips?"”

Chips.
ElectraPalatine
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“I understand what you're saying but to put it more simply it's similar to that perenial question.

"Daddy or chips?"”

And thus, Doghouse Riley cuts the Gordian Knot!

if only you had been around to advise at the Treaty of Vienna. The whole course of history might have been changed.
Doghouse Riley
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by ElectraPalatine:
“And thus, Doghouse Riley cuts the Gordian Knot!

if only you had been around to advise at the Treaty of Vienna. The whole course of history might have been changed.”

Thank you kind sir, I salute another poster who can grasp the essence of the problem and treat this entertaining variety programme with the seriousness it deserves.
sofakat
12-12-2010
Doghouse. Awesome. Simple but brutal.

Daddy.
Ms_Conscrewed
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by ElectraPalatine:
“And thus, Doghouse Riley cuts the Gordian Knot!

if only you had been around to advise at the Treaty of Vienna. The whole course of history might have been changed.”

The Gordian knot was cut? I thought it was undone.
Doghouse Riley
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Ms_Conscrewed:
“The Gordian knot was cut? I thought it was undone.”


There's the progress made by our "throwaway" society.
Ms_Conscrewed
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“There's the progress made by our "throwaway" society.”

Oh and to your other philosical question its chips.
ElectraPalatine
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“Thank you kind sir, I salute another poster who can grasp the essence of the problem and treat this entertaining variety programme with the seriousness it deserves.”

Well, sirrah, I am also duly appreciative of your compliment.

Matt's own selfless determination and personal sacrifice to this oft-under-rated exemplar of the Saturday night light-entertainment format was, of course, my inspiration.
Doghouse Riley
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by ElectraPalatine:
“Well, sirrah, I am also duly appreciative of your compliment.

Matt's own selfless determination and personal sacrifice to this oft-under-rated exemplar of the Saturday night light-entertainment format was, of course, my inspiration.”

Ah!

Les Dawson is alive and well and posting on DS.
peeve
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“I think that's the crucial point, Whose fans feel more passionately about their favourite? Lots of people seem to appreciate Kara's dancing, but to they feel strongly enough to pick up the phone and vote (and multiple times)?

By the way, just out of curiosity, did you want Donal to win instead of Ray on DOI?!”

Oh yes, indeedy! Loved Donal to bits and of course he was nowhere near the skater Ray was, but he started from a much lower point. *coughjourneycough*
drbolognaise
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Doghouse Riley:
“I understand what you're saying but to put it more simply it's similar to that perennial question.

"Daddy or chips?"”

Chips, with plenty of vinegar please!
Miriam_R
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Skyrah:
“Maybe you wish to point out to your wife that Matt has also had proffessional ballroom training before SCD.
He was trained by world Latin professional champions Michael Stylianos and Lorna Lee.

Matt actually won his very first Latin competition in 2003 with a Paso and Jive.

Link: Matt Baker's previous dance training...

”

Really, gosh, I lean something new about Matt every day. I didn't know he had had acting lessons either but found that out since he has been in Strictly. He certainly has quite a skillset for someone who I originally thought was just a Tv presenter.

In a way Matt and Kara are fairly similar it seems. Both can dance (and have the natural ability anyhow ) ..and both can act (even though she is better known as the actor and he the presenter). Now all is left is to see if they can both sing! lol.
Salsa Queen
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“ Now all is left is to see if they can both sing! lol.”

One assumes Matt can sing to some extent seeing as he's done musical theatre.
Moonbean
12-12-2010
Could be a new part of the show dance - must do duet with pro partner!
echad
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Skyrah:
“Maybe you wish to point out to your wife that Matt has also had proffessional ballroom training before SCD.
He was trained by world Latin professional champions Michael Stylianos and Lorna Lee.

Matt actually won his very first Latin competition in 2003 with a Paso and Jive.

Link: Matt Baker's previous dance training...

”

Doesn't look like he's improved very much, does it?
Servalan
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by zamboanga:
“I think Matt is likely to win the competition, and have done so since the very first two weeks. The reason? Observing my wife. She is 60, so absolutely in the main demographic for Strictly, she has watched every series, and the celebrity she has liked has won every time.

She loves Countryfile, and she loves Matt. Before SCD started she was interested in how he would perform, and nervous that he would not be very good. She has been delighted how good he has been. She is nervous every week when he performs, and worried that the judges will criticise him because she thinks that will affect the votes of the general public. She has no idea this forum exists, or that the resuts come out in spoilers on Saturday.

And now we get to the important point. She loves the intensity he shows in his dances and in his face, precisely the things the judges cticise him for. She thinks it shows real emotion, a real, handsome young man dancing with a pretty young woman, learning as he goes along, but honest in his emotion. She thinks Artem is just a professional dancer, showing the acting of a professional dancer, but Matt is real. She thinks Kara is very good, but has the advantage of having been taught before.”

Perhaps you have as big a dilemma as Matt: do you tell your wife that she is mistaken, that Matt has had previous dance training and also (as referenced on ITT recently) had experience on stage in the West End? I'll leave that one up to you ...

Originally Posted by zamboanga:
“I think my wife is very representative of a big chunk of the voting demographic, which is why I expect Matt's vote to go through the roof after what happened on Friday, and for him to win the whole competition.

I also think that last week's Austin Powers dance will have gone down very well with the pre-teen audience.

So....

If you were Matt and/or Aliona what would you do in these circumstances
- dial back on the facial and dancing intensity, so as to improve the 'purity of the dance', and lose the connection with your audience who love that intensity [after all, who did the BBC posters overwhelmingly vote as the most passionate couple?]
- or keep going for the maximum intensity and athleticism because that is what connnects with your fanbase?

What would you do?

[My own position - I wanted Denise to beat Jill, because I loved her athleticism; Alesha to win because of the absolute joy she showed in dancing; Ricky to beat Chris because he was simply the better dancer. This year I want Matt and Aliona to win because they have dared to be contemporary and give two fingers to the judges, of whom Len just appears to be whoring hiself to the BBC. I adored their AS which had real, honest, emotional depth and loved the fact that it made no references to anything from before this decade. Matt and Aliona are 32 and 26 for goodness sake - they should be dancing something which is relevant to 2010, not a pastiche of something that Fred Asaire and Ginger Rogers might have done. I like the fact that they are taking Len's advice that dancing on the edge is what it is all about, and flinging it back at him - and he doesn't know what to do.]”

Interesting you pick up on liking Aliona's choreography as it's been cited repeatedly on this forum as a reason Matt is not as progressing as well as he should be. Friday's criticisms from the judges, whilst perhaps worded in a rather mealy-mouthed way by Len, all went back to Aliona's routine which, as Craig pointed out tonight, wasn't really a salsa.

I have to say that the most daring choreographer this year for me is Artem, by far - he does what Aliona struggles to replicate. I don't know if Aliona made any last-minute changes to their tango after Friday's comments - but it was much more recogniseable than some of her other efforts and much improved for that.

BTW, why is Len 'whoring himself to the BBC'? He, like all the other judges, reports to Moira Ross and the other producers. I wouldn't be so quick to blame him, either: I very much suspect Matt was the centre of Friday's drama for a reason - to take the sympathy vote away from Gavin. And the plan obviously worked ...
rumptybump
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by -Sid-:
“I think that's the crucial point, Whose fans feel more passionately about their favourite? Lots of people seem to appreciate Kara's dancing, but to they feel strongly enough to pick up the phone and vote (and multiple times)?

By the way, just out of curiosity, did you want Donal to win instead of Ray on DOI?!”

I did wonder that, as most of the forums I'm on seem to have rabid Matt fans voting multiple times
bloggingbelle
12-12-2010
Let's be straight about this neither Kara, Pamela or Matt are complete novices - so that discussion is no longer relevant.

I have supported Matt to date but can be swayed in the final if Kara out performs him. I doubt Pamela will win me round because I cannot see her outperforming the others.
Cadiva
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Miriam_R:
“Really, gosh, I lean something new about Matt every day. I didn't know he had had acting lessons either but found that out since he has been in Strictly. He certainly has quite a skillset for someone who I originally thought was just a Tv presenter.”

A lot of TV presenters have stage school style backgrounds even if they didn't specifically go to a stage school ie they've been in shows, or have acted or danced etc.

As has been said though, Kara, Matt and Pamela all have a similar background in terms of dance experience so there isn't really an advantage for any of them as far as I'm concerned.
Iphigenia
12-12-2010
Originally Posted by Abbasolutely 40:
“I wonder how many I represent , I am of a similar age ,( a little younger ), to your wife and want Kara to win since week one .”

Me too. Each to their own, with all possible respect, of course.

I didn't like Kara's character on EE, so expected to find her as irritating and vapid. Instead she dances like an enchanted doll, and she has been my #1 since her first dance.
silvermoon
12-12-2010
For me Matt & Aliona are the only couple in the final that have chemistry and a connection. I am not a big fan of contemporary choreography but have to admit that most of M & A's dances have captured my attention in a big way and the only one I really disliked was the jive.

I don't get the Artem/Kara connection (in a similar way that I didn't get the Ali/Brian chemistry last year). Kara executes her dances beautifully but they always appear to me as a well drilled exercise of choreography and Artem has a habit of out-dancing his celebrity in the same way Natalie does.

Pamela is OK but I always find James too safe and predictable with his choreography and generally I never make it through a whole dance of theirs without getting distracted. James will probably overdo things in the final in an effort to match Ola's glitterball.

Matt to win.
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