Which makes the final all the more fair and potentially fun to watch. Don't you think?

Her previous dance experience being roughly the same (if not less) than Matt's ... something that has been pointed out to you - my point was simple: are you going to enlighten your wife?


Len is doing what his bosses tell him. That's all.

Strictly's history is full of 'controversy' about the judges' scores and comments. It's all part of the 'drama'. Sorry you are upset by Len - but, with the greatest respect, you are wasting your time stressing about it. Contrary behaviour is in Len's DNA in his role on the show - it makes everything more 'unpredictable'.


Your take on Aliona's choreography is interesting - and obviously perfectly valid - but I have to note with interest that many of Matt's most vocal fans feel she has damaged his chances and gone wide of the mark. Breaking convention is one thing: however, choreographing a salsa as an intense disco showdance isn't daring or rebellious - it's plain daft. Aliona must have known how the judges would react - and that the person who would suffer would be Matt.

And I have to add that I doubt many people in the audience watch SCD for cutting edge choreography. They watch it to be entertained, and to engage with the celebrities as they learn how to dance. I agree with your prediction that Matt will win, but I think that has a little more to do with his personality than with his dancing journey, which seems to me rather static and uneventful. But each to their own!

Thought provoking thread, this. I don't understand why it has to degenerate into bickering. There are plenty of fans of strictly that are completely unaware of this forum, and are happy to remain blissfully ignorant of it's content..why should the OP inform his wife of the 'facts'- especially as they are so open to (mis)interpretation?
For the record I was a Gavin supporter (contrary to a lot that has been said on here, most Welsh people would not have supported Gavin initially, although many might have done so as his progress continued). I'm now supporting Matt- for the cutting edge performances, the contemporary approach, and the two fingers up to Len.
I don't like the contrived showmance of Kara and Artem and I really don't think that Pamela and James are in the same league as Kara and Matt.

The last bit works for me!

No, I am not going to tell my wife because

a) it is completely unimportant. This is only a Saturday night entertainment programme. She would think it (rightly) bizarre if I was to earnestly 'correct' misapprehensions she had.
b) she wouldn't let the facts interfere with a good opinion. She likes Matt and wants to mother him. Therefore any reason not to vote for Kara is good enough for her.

In that respect I suspect she is not atypical, as I keep saying.

I am not in the slightest upset by Len. As I say, this is just an entertainment show. However I am absolutely delighted to observe the discomfiture that Aliona appears to causes him. It has made the series for me. In particular I loved the way she said 'yeah, yeah, yeah, I knew you'd say that' when he said he didn't like the back flips at the end of the samba. She faced him down and then the next week, who blinked when they did the Austin Powers jive - Len did. He read the way the audience was leaning and threw all his 'I'm here to maintain the integrity of the dancing' out of the window. Fabulous to watch.

That girl has balls of steel, as I say, and it is wonderful to see.

The question is why shouldn't the OP tell his wife, who is obviously labouring under the misapprehension that Matt has no dance training when he does? How she chooses to interpret the facts (not 'facts' ) is up to her. I doubt it would make much difference - but at least she'd know.

As for not liking the 'contrived showmance' of Kara and Artem ... the people responsible for that are the same ones who put Matt through the wringer this weekend: the producers. Just like the soaps, reality television thrives on drama and conflict and Matt's Friday night upset and Saturday recovery was as contrived as the 'Will they, won't they?' foisted upon Kara. That is the genre, and that is exactly how television works. What is to your taste is a personal matter - but events in Strictly are as carefully choreographed as the routines we see ... let's not kid ourselves otherwise.

... nice one!


...Aliona has testicles?

I say 'facts' because presumably you would want to be fair and mention all the previous training that the others had done too...surely you wouldn't just point out that one of the contestants had been dancing before....would you?

It descends into bickering because some people like bickering. C'est la vie

On the more thoughtful side I agree with you that it is likely to end up being between Kara and Matt, so both pros have a decision - do they go for fun in the show dance, or something showy, or something dramatic? Matt has certainly done fun - the Cha-Cha, Charleston, Samba - and dramatic (AS, Tango). So which route will Aliona go? Kara hasn't really done fun, so will Artem go down the 'fun' route? And which will resonate with the mass audience more?

With Aliona there is the extra frisson of whatever she chooses - fun, show, drama - will she take it to edge? Now that is what I am really looking forward to!!

BIB - precisely why Matt will win. Thank you for confirming what I have always suspected!

Not at all.

But this was a specific reference to Kara having had previous dance training (for Sports Relief) - which is well known and also cost her a week's worth of training for SCD8. Unlike Matt's previous dance training ...

So you wouldn't want one contestant to be singled out for something that applies to others as well ... would you?

Matt has got the support of the prime-time TV watchers like your wife and my mother-in-law. They see him on Country File and The One Show, or remember him from Blue Peter, and feel they know him. They know he's a clean cut, respectable farm boy from the North and they admire they way he's learnt to dance. My mother-in-law was beside herself with joy to see his house, wife and children on ITT a couple of weeks ago, just confirming what a nice, respectable boy he is.

Exactly the same as Chris Hollins last year. Mum-in-law ran up a terrible phone bill voting for him because she liked him on BBC Breakfast.

With this in mind I would suggest that all he and Aliona have to do is keep it clean and he will win. The nearest they came to killing off their success was the terrible grinding section in their so-called salsa - no-one wants to see 'Countryfile's Matt Baker' on the floor doing stripper moves. I felt bitterly sorry for him in that dance - it had barely any salsa content and he had to stand and take the criticism at the end, having done what his professional told him. When they cut to his wife in the audience her face said it all.

Just for the record, I'm a Kara fan. I think their routines, and her performances in them, have been fantastic.

Good for you. It was very rude of another FM to ask if you were going to tell her, in such a tone that you owed it both to your wife and the FM.

Actually, you didn't even have to say whether you were or were not. That is totally your business.

I wonder if she has the balls to reprise their divisive AS - with modifications it could bring the house down

I hope so. Would rather they mesmerised some and took a chance.

I agree. In my opinion the two best lifts of the whole series were in that dance.

Risky though. It seems on this forum that for everyone who loved it, there's someone else who hated it!

A safer bet would be their Charleston.

Agree the Charleston would be safer but the AS would be two fingers to Len - that alone is worth a 10 in my book!

Good Tranny

Ah well - I must admit - I don't know the extent of everybody's training, only know that they all have previous.
Much like the OP's wife I guess

That is how I feel too. And on a technical note I would be interested to know how spin in the corner should be choreographed. Because to me, if it is supposed to be about struggle in NY, if the celeb is too smooth, wouldn't that negate the feel of struggle?

I would love them to do it exactly as before, and see what the judges say this time!

yeah yeah!!

I loved it
I hope they chance it
But the Charleston is safer.
But the New York AS was glorious
but ..but
Heck
Thank god I don't have to make the decision.

... then can't they do an American-Chaleston-Quick-Tango thingy incorporating all the weird-ass moves that Len didn't like. Throw in some custard and I'll be there... voting like a I'm glued to my phone.
Last edited by shrew : 13-12-2010 at 14:07

No, that would give the judges too much wiggle room. They should do EXACTLY what they did before, then go and stand and look at the judges....

... I likes it! I can picture them now - just standing there looking at the judges with defiance all over their faces while Aliona slowly extends a solitary digit....

Way to go!

Would absolutely love it if they did then they could start the show dance with both of them standing on the judges desk writhing in front of Len to "Do Ya Love Me?"