I've been a huge fan of Joanna's from the start and have always defended her and said she's the strongest candidate.

She annoyed me SO much when she said to Jamie, I've never been spoken to by a man like that I find it quite threatening.

WTF!!

I HATE people playing the victim! So fake and destroys any credibilty.

Don't agree. Totally understand she was being undermined but having none of it. Jojo ftw!

I don't think we actually heard what Jamie had said though?
As I recall it was a bit of a comedy montage of Jo nagging Jamie, but given Jamie's performance throughout the series I can well imagine has was being stroppy and trying to undermine Jo. He really doesn't do the subordinate role at all.

So you (as with so many others) didn't notice that is was Jamie that was the first one to play the aggression card?

And presumably you (as with so many others) didn't notice his aggressive gesture a few seconds before?

My brother was shouting shut up Joanne nagging him. But I defended her and was saying, he's pretty useless and he's not replying to her, so she NEEDS to keep at him! So I was defending her and totally on her side throughout the episode.

I thought it was good of her to stand up to him, but then she just went on too far Jamie, I've never been spoken to that way by a man, I feel threatened etc. As soon as she bought the victim into it she lost it. I was totally totally with her until then. Fair play she stands up for herself, and Jamies a bit of an annoying arrogant whiner, but she just went a bit too far!

Maybe I'll watch it again and see if I change my mind

I agree that her wording sounded a bit daft but I think she was genuinely shocked when Jamie accused her of being aggressive. Particularly as he was the one had just made a physically aggressive gesture himself.


Yes, she overstated her case, but this was just a spur of the moment flare up between a couple of people who had been stressed to artificially high levels for some weeks.

And yet people are treating it as if it's somehow pivotal to the entire process.

It is, do you remember what LS said to Joanne in week 2, about here aggression (that Joanne was very happy about receiving and learning from). Not only did she verbally bully members of her own team but she pushed a shockingly bad idea all day long. So lesson number one do not do that or bye bye.......
She leant well.... until the " sausage , curry ...." (yes I read your point about that and no no no I take ur points but they fail.... (your very "passionate" about Jo ). Esp when not only the pm but another member of your team have made it clear for a UK based flavor(that won))... so not only is she wasting time but she simply does not listen to anyone else's view when she goes off on one.

This little blip was just that and as nick said BY THE END of the day she was firing on all cylinders'.... HOWEVER

She messed that up by the way she was speaking to Jamie, yes I've read all (28 + of your post about that incident, even shared them with my office and here's what people have to say, (they have watched it too you know and cleaver enough to have their own view).

A, your being very one sided and biased its very clear who you like more,

B, your very hypocritical, for example ur complaining people don't get to see the whole picture of the day with for example the editing, but then neither have you (unless you really are Joanne) and yet your coming out with even more biased comments based on your assumptions.

C, people actually beginning to think maybe your the same person? Almost every thread you reply in same almost childlike fission. You try very hard to put anyone with a word (even LS) against Joanne down, or claim these people dint see the same things... so much so that the repetition Joanne does with "the great book idea" looks week to your "Jo Jo is amazing" and nothing she does is wrong cos I say so allot more times .. over and over.

D, if that is not enough,,,,,,, you make claims like Jo is the best apprentice because of team members praise (3 x better even) when actually Stella got the best cheer from the boys in week 2, so even by your weird judging Jo's not top.

E, Stretching the truth again,

"Even as a 6'2" male I would find some shaven headed guy punching the air whilst verbally having a go at me somewhat threatening - once they move from the verbal to the physical you don't know where it's going to end - so I can imagine it would be a lot worse for a woman."

"punching the air", actually really pay attention to the hand gesture with ought these "Jo goggles" on. It's not in any way a punch.... he raises his right hand with a pen held like u would do in class with a pointer and brings it downwards like any normal Italian explaining something with passion, nothing like what it would look like if he where to actually do a motion of punching someone. so spin spin spin… u say about others spin spin but clearly, very clearly no actually punch. If u don't believe me put a pencil in your right hand raise it shoulder length, then bring it down fast and say naughty ... whatever. Maybe I should have reported my school teachers for doing this when people where winding them up???? I'm a 6ft 4 man, not a 6ft 3 male, if I were not a man but still male then yes id have found his gesture something other than a bit funny to watch. Did I think it was right of him (Jamie) to get so agro.. no but with all of Joanne's VERBAL bullying she could have done with a hypothetical slap (as in the one LS did for the same reasons week 2).

which brings me onto final point for those that have toughed out my grammar (sorry)

F for fail:

Either Joanne knew how annoying she was being and knew this would eventually get to Jamie ( don't forget Jamie's " I hope your happy now" as he certainly appears to feel that way), meaning she is not only heartless, but a game player, and not a team player...
OR she does not realize just how bad she was getting, and thinks the way in which she was acting was the best way to get things out of Jamie....... clearly most people think not, you can scream 100 more times that we don't see all the footage... but it does not matter, do you think for one instance that Stella who managed a whole team of boys including Jamie would have acted so poorly? really ?

please please please take a big breath of fresh air from outside. I don't mean to knock anyone but I do so hate it when people try to play Dictator. Maybe in a year you can come back here and think man I must have loved her or something to write this stuff. I don't know.. but "from an external point of view " ………………

There are things I like about Joanne but her conduct (just forget its was Jamie… or if he did do anything we did or did not see) was wrong. People are allowed to feel that u know!… Perhaps u want here to win so much that this blinds you a little? I don’t think anyone in my office would employ her if she came into the office and started speaking they way she did to not only Jamie or the others in week 2. Neither would she be praised if we were making English crisp and she kept phoning saying "Have I made myself clear I LIKE curry… ect ect".


Her good points are, can listen at times, can cold call, can sell when on form, has a good I dear how to get things rolling and get information, other than that I think it’s the people she calls that really know things like ROB for the taxi Blue books.

so yes actually Jo getting aggressive when she knows that her staying in the "process" is due to keeping a lid on that kind of behavior could very easily be the end for her. Luckily they both sort of calmed down after that. Which leads me to think that maybe she was not trying to do it on purpose, and just too much pressure for here to suppress that kind of behavior,.

Sorry for the wall of text but u said "ME TO" was like I don’t have my own opinion,… Im just jumping on the band wagon  ? u can call me flat wrong but Id have been happier just with ME TO ! Id certainly not let anyone speak to me like that for long, though ID have handled it a bit cooler then Jamie!

LOL.

Quite amusing that you post this immediately after I say:

"I agree that her wording sounded a bit daft".

and

"Yes, she overstated her case".

Which rather takes the wind out of your case that I say that "Joanna can do no wrong".

Not at all u need me to go through the 28 post again to find all ur quotes?

LOL!

Logic in not your strong suit I see.

If you are trying to make a case that someone believes that someone else can do no wrong it rather spoils the effect if the post immediately before the one where you make the allegation contains two instances of criticism.

U know that u said

" The problem for Joanna's detractors is that she's such an outstanding candidate and they are so desperate for something with which to bash her that blowing this minor incident up out of all proportion is the best they can do."

just after calling people biased? that was you and yet re read the openning post of this thread,

"I've been a huge fan of Joanna's from the start and have always defended her and said she's the strongest candidate.

She annoyed me SO much when she said to Jamie, I've never been spoken to by a man like that I find it quite threatening.

WTF!!

I HATE people playing the victim! So fake and destroys any credibilty."

so technically your logic is more whack. So point number two do you think Stella would have done better at managing Jamie and get the most out of him?

Generally, yes.

Obviously not everyone who makes any criticism is biased, blind or stupid but there are plenty of people who qualify.

They are the ones who refuse to acknowledge Jamie's passive-aggressive stonewalling or his actual displayed aggression and focus entirely on Joanna's failings.


No it isn't. You are taking an observation about a tendency and trying to make out it's an inviolable rule. A sort of straw man argument.


Who knows?

It was stated in the 'Final Five' programme that Jamie resents being managed. Doubtless as a result of working for himself for some time.

I'm sure it's something he could learn.

Hanbags ladies

I use a knitted handbag ,

Id put good money that Stella would have done a much better job at managing Jamie as she did do before,

Its clear to me Jamie's weakness, and have seen the later clips, this does not change the look and way she (Jo) spoke to Jamie, if I saw that in a person Id not try and provoke it but rather try and give them the space they need. You clearly see this fault.

If you me and quite a few others can see this ( and it was also apparent to Jo + views from the earlier episode ) then surly

(in LA style voice) surly Jo must have seen this too?

Which leaves us with:

1 Joanne see's that she is winding him up and pushes it further to make him look week = not a good PM or person.

2 Joanne can't see what you and I can so clearly is she a bit bad at reading people even though she knows this is a weakness from previous task ?

3 Joanne does not know how she behaves when in this state of mind?

I'm so delighted to see another "I hate Joanna" thread, it becomes so tiresome to post on all the others:yawn:

Jamie had his faults - which can be addressed.

Joanna had her faults - which can be addressed

I don't believe either of them were trying to wind the other up.

I don't believe that Jamie intended to act aggressively.

I don't believe that either of them were playing to the camera.

It was, as I have said before, just two people who have been artificially and unnaturally stressed by the producers in a number of ways who were rubbing each other up the wrong way. It wasn't that big a deal. No one died.

There's only one other thread like this, that I can see.

I think she will win. She may have faults but they all do.

I'm getting worried that the Wagner, Widdecombe, of the series has not gone yet and others are falling instead

I have a terrible worry that Herr Baggs will be the winner.
If true then it proves all my theories about this show being nothing more than a reality version of the generation game, nothing to do with business, all to do with controversy and entertainment.

He won't. He'll be fired this week after being ripped to shreds in the interviews.

You can use the search button or:

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...ghlight=joanna

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...ghlight=joanna

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...ghlight=joanna

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...ghlight=joanna

The portrayal of her working relationship with Jamie in the last task has been discussed in a number of threads in the past week. This thread doesn't bring anything new to the discussion. I find it puzzling why people start new threads on issues that are already being discussed elsewhere

Finally! So it only took you a week of pointless arguing to see sense. Well done.

Actually, I'd been asking for balance the whole time it's just that some people were too blind of stupid to see that,

It was the concentration of people who were willfully ignoring the 'other side of the equation' that meant that I was only concentrating on the side I was.

Because I wanted to