Yeah but everyone has. I go to a dance classes now and I'm rubbish compared to the people standing in the front row, some of whom could be professional dancers . Natural ability comes into it as well.

Yes, I really don't care about previous experience. Some people could take a million lessons and they'd still be rubbish. I would care if someone was a professional dancer, but none of the finalists are.

Kara, Matt and Pam are all talented dancers, and that's all I care about. It's going to be a proper final for once!

Ta

Actually, I'd say that training and experience do count. And in fact in my experience dedication and properly-guided learning produces about 95% of the result - "natural talent" is overrated.

However, and this is vital, you need to do a hell of a lot of it before it counts. Like, years.

A few dance lessons here and there over the years are literally irrelevant. Just because you've run for the bus a few times, doesn't qualify you to enter the 100m sprint finals of the Olympics.

Also, what sort of a rubbish dance class is done in rows?

I didn't mean it like that I'm sure you're just being modest

Actually, to be world-class at any discipline (and assuming of course that you have the aptitude), you typically need about 10,000 hours of correctly-targeted study / practice time.

But certainly, if you took even a couple of hundred correctly-targeted dance classes over a couple of years, with accompanying practice time, you'd absolutely get into the "comfortable" level of competence, at least for social dancing, no matter what your original "ability".

I'll take your word for it I've never taken a dance class in my life, but I do like to dance around my living room

I think confidence must be a big issue, especially for beginners. Some people also thrive under pressure and others fall apart.

There's actually quite a lot of research to back up the 10,000-hour "rule" - most recently in the "Outliers" book by Malcolm Gladwell.

As for the "couple of hundred classes" thing, that's simply an estimate based on my experience.


One of the biggest. And in partner dancing, the problem is that if you're a leader without confidence, you can't lead effectively.

Getting to the point where you're relaxed enough to lead well - that's what takes the time.

I would imagine it was just because Kara had something people knew about that came under the BBC/Strictly umberella.

A dance class has to be rubbish if it is done in rows?

I just thought I join in and say there is a huge difference between taking a dancing class or lessons and performing in public.

Pamela has not hidden the fact that she has loved dancing all her life and has often gone to dance classes with her friends, just as any of us might do (e.g. Salsa, Zumba or Ceroc). She has also travelled extensively and had a go at what ever the local style of dancing may be. Millions of women do that kind of thing ever week as part of their leisure time and it is as much a social occasion or an opportunity to do some exercise more than anything else. She graduated from the National Institute of Dramatic Art in Australia which is hard to get in to, so she must have been pretty good (Cate Blanchett, Mel Gibson, Baz Luhrmann, Geoffrey Rush and Hugo Weaving all went there). Before she met Billy she had a fairly successful career as an actress and comedienne including doing some live TV, so that has got to be help with something like SCD. Ideally Pamela could be compared with Felicity when it comes down to previous experience as they are closer in age. I'd say she's got a lot of relevant experience, but isn't a ringer. But then again she is decades older than Kara and Matt.

Now that all the little details have been made public, I do find it strange that Kara was penalised a week's training and Matt wasn't. Maybe there is still something about Kara's experience we don't know about, otherwise I'd say Matt has more relevant experience than her.

But neither of them are ringers either!

Well yeah, if only because the people at the back row can't see or learn a damn thing. Rows are OK if you're doing an exercise class, you just copy the person in front.

In a dance class? Not so much.

I'm not too fussed about previous dance experience and, as others have said, as long as it's not B&L, it's hard for the producers to balance contestants equally in terms of age and natural ability without having to measure the amount of previous dance training they might have had.

My brother did three years at the Bristol Old Vic theatre school and had a fair amount of dance training as part of the course. He says he was rubbish, but that, if he were asked to do something like Strictly (nah, it would never happen - he isn't famous or anything), then he thinks it would be an advantage.

I don't know why Kara was penalised a week's training because of the Sport Relief dance thing, but I suspect it's all about perception. Somebody recently started a thread talking about his wife's preference for Matt and one of the reasons she had for rejecting Kara as a favourite was because she'd heard that Kara had previous dance experience, so it wasn't fair. I don't suppose she's alone in thinking Kara has an unfair advantage, as the OP had also heard that, but not about the others' previous experience. Bit unfair, but that's life.

I'm happy that all three finalists seem pretty well matched in terms of previous experience as well as ability, so it's going to be a cracking final!

I think it's a pity that all three finalists have had some previous training. There is evidence that both Kara and Matt have danced before and Len said that Pamela must have had some previous training.

Scott and Gavin didn't start with those advantages and still acieved quite a lot. I preferred SCD before it got so intense.

But a dance studio is only so big. Everyone can't stand in the same row? Anyway the rows rotate so people at the back get to be at the front sometimes.

If you have a decent instructor who comes round and corrects technique, it doesn't matter if there are rows or not.

And mirrors, lots of mirrors. I love mirrors.

Is that you, Gavin?

Teach in the round. It's a bonus for most progressive dances, as students are already in the right position.

Most dance classes I go to (and all the ones I've run) do that.

I think I've started channelling him.

Well, it still does if you can't see what you're supposed to be doing in the first place.


MIrrors are good.

It depends on how many people are in each row as well. Plus of course, how adept the teacher is at positioning people and moving around herself. In my old ballet class there'd mostly be three rows, each with two or three people in them so if you spaced yourself carefully, you could see the teacher (and she could see you) at all times. Frankly I felt more involved (and better taught) in the back row of that class (which as others have said, you wouldn't stay in anyway) than I have in certain ballroom/ Latin classes where we were spread randomly around the room. In the bigger classes for younger pupils, she would always have assistants to make sure the kids in the back couple of rows had someone more advanced to copy even when they couldn't see her.

Back on topic, all three finalists have dance experience and I think this is going to make for a fantastic final!

ETA: Yes, I like teachers who teach in a circle as well, especially for ballroom/ Latin/ salsa etc. It's a bit harder doing that for many ballet, modern, jazz, tap etc classes though.

Scott comes from a performance background, so he did attend lessons. I very much doubt that his jive came out of nowhere. His mum also said on ITT that he won a dancing competition when he was ten with his sister. It probably wasn't a very serious competition, but it indicates that he isn't entirely new to it.

As DJ has said, everyone has had the opportunity to take lessons in the past; it's their fault if they haven't done so. Matt, Kara and Pam are not even close to being professional dancers, so it's hardly an unfair advantage.

Gavin did improve quite a bit, but he was still pretty crap at the end IMO. He was far too self-conscious to do the Latin dances, which certainly didn't help. His body was also very stiff and he didn't seem to have great musicality.

I agree. Plus every student should be able to see the teacher and there needs to be enough room to move around - more than in an exercise class, although I've always been able to see the teacher too and have never had to follow the person in front - they might put you off! If that's not the case then the class is too large.


Scott will have had previous training too because he trained at the Guildhall School of Music and Drama, although I doubt if he has used any dance training since then.

I'd rather see someone like Kara, Pamela, Matt and Scott than have to go down the route of finding a celeb with no previous training at all because we would end up with reality show celebs or people who are just famous for being famous.

Strictly has always been intense for me, but I get what you mean!

Thank you for all your input.

I am looking forward to the final with these finalists.

That works for me too - even in my Scottish country dance classes when I was at school we did that before moving on to dances!

Kara was given one week's less training because she only learnt the Samba for last year's Strictly Special when she was taught to dance by Mark Ramprakash for Sports Relief/Comic Relief.

Matt's training was in 2003 as part of a Blue Peter learn x y or z thing where he had a week's instruction with two former world champions and then entered a competition.