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The Matt v Kara Situation as of the 16th
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Mistress
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Tangerine_82:
“Well Camilla left the year she won it and hasn't been back. I very much doubt the Beeb are against having their 'host of the moment' winning their most publicised show.”

Not the Beeb, the producers. I don't think they have anything against Matt, I think they could be worrying about Aliona.

Camilla was a totally different situation - she chose to leave after a long tenure on the show. Aliona has been criticised for her choreography both years she's been on and it's likely that Matt would be the runaway favourite if he was partnered with someone like Natalie or Ola.

Again though, this is just my nonsense theory!
Monkseal
17-12-2010
They've openly said that Anton's crap and nobody would want him as a partner for the past two series. I doubt Aliona's in much danger just because a couple of the judges have criticised one or two of her dances.
Jan2555*GG*
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Mistress:
“Actually, as of the past couple of weeks, I'd say Matt. I'm getting a vibe that the producers really don't want him to win. I may be imagining that, but even last night's trailers for Saturday night didn't feature him.

If I was a conspiracy theorist I'd say it's because they want to ditch Aliona next year and that will look very odd if she wins...

But I'm not a conspiracy theorist ”

I dont think the thought about Aliona would even come in to the BBC's thinking.......but actually I think you have it totally wrong......I think the BBC DO want Matt to win.....and the 50% rumours of votes on the semis is down to the roasting he got from the judges......guaranteed to get more votes.......and if other 'sources' are correct thats exactly what the BBC want for Matt as they featured him heavily (almost every day and including a visit to his house which hasnt happened for any other celeb on ITT) in the week following Blackpool when apparantly he didnt win the public vote.

I think its actually too close to call and I think there are a lot of people who like both Matt and Kara equally and it will depend on how they dance tomorrow
Tangerine_82
17-12-2010
In my opinion, none of them are the underdogs this year, that's why it's so close. All of them have their strengths and weaknesses and have just as much of a chance to lift the glitterball.

Normally I know us Brits love an underdog (although I can't say I'm swayed by it) but when it comes to people they don't like who are the underdog, all of a sudden it's about principle. Take Lisa Snowdon. She was in the bottom two a million times before the final but I didn't see people saying they'd vote for her cause she was the underdog, all I saw was hatred of her and claims of favouritism from the judges, even though in the final it's nothing to do with the judges and all about the public vote that so alluded her. I think people just use the voting for the underdog adage to justify to themselves and others voting for someone they like that they know doesn't actually deserve to win
Alli-F
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Mistress:
“Thinking about it more, I don't think there's any metric by which Kara could be described as the underdog. Here's how I see it:

Matt is the bookies' fave (just) and up until the last couple of weeks was polling strongly on forums. He is the judges' least fave and currently second favourite on polls.

Pamela has had two 40s and the judges love her, she was second on the leaderboard in the semis. She is however the outsider at the bookies and in the polls.

Kara is loved, nay adored, by both the judges and the polling forumers. She's also *very* close to Matt in the odds and was favourite at the bookies earlier this week. Top of last week's judges' leaderboard.

So you could argue underdog status for Matt and Pam, though each has their strengths and advantages, but I can't see any justification for calling Kara the underdog.

Bit like Top Trumps this isn't it?”


But Matt's underdog status is cancelled by the fact that the judges don't get to vote this weekend, it's purely public vote, so I would say that only Pamela could really claim underdog status.

I would say it might even make Matt stronger, if the judges roast him but then don't get to score him and mark him, then he's going to get the sympathy vote too.
Tangerine_82
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Mistress:
“Not the Beeb, the producers. I don't think they have anything against Matt, I think they could be worrying about Aliona.

Camilla was a totally different situation - she chose to leave after a long tenure on the show. Aliona has been criticised for her choreography both years she's been on and it's likely that Matt would be the runaway favourite if he was partnered with someone like Natalie or Ola.

Again though, this is just my nonsense theory!”

Lol, I love a good nonsense theory so you're in good company

But honestly, I don't see the root of this thinking. The producers work for the Beeb on their biggest show bar soaps. I very much doubt they have free reign to manipulate the public against a presenter the Beeb are falling in love with.
Mistress
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Alli-F:
“But Matt's underdog status is cancelled by the fact that the judges don't get to vote this weekend, it's purely public vote, so I would say that only Pamela could really claim underdog status.

I would say it might even make Matt stronger, if the judges roast him but then don't get to score him and mark him, then he's going to get the sympathy vote too. ”

Yeah possibly and I agree that Matt's probably only the underdog with the judges and that Pam is the overall underdog. I was just going through the different arguments for that position.

Although we don't really know how people are voting when it comes down to it.

ETA: although sympathy vote is the same as voting for the perceived underdog, so actually, the argument kind of does still stand, even if the judges' scores don't mean anything.
Mistress
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Tangerine_82:
“Lol, I love a good nonsense theory so you're in good company

But honestly, I don't see the root of this thinking. The producers work for the Beeb on their biggest show bar soaps. I very much doubt they have free reign to manipulate the public against a presenter the Beeb are falling in love with.”

No I know, I'm just being silly. Just seemed a bit weird that Matt wasn't in the trailer and my mind ran away with me!
Mistress
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Jan2555*GG*:
“I dont think the thought about Aliona would even come in to the BBC's thinking.......but actually I think you have it totally wrong......I think the BBC DO want Matt to win.....and the 50% rumours of votes on the semis is down to the roasting he got from the judges......guaranteed to get more votes.......and if other 'sources' are correct thats exactly what the BBC want for Matt as they featured him heavily (almost every day and including a visit to his house which hasnt happened for any other celeb on ITT) in the week following Blackpool when apparantly he didnt win the public vote.”

I'm sure they've been to other celeb's houses in previous series.

I actually thought they probably did that because Matt lives in a very different kind of house from most of the others, especially the pros who all seem to live in shiny London flats with no stuff in Gets boring seeing pro after pro being like, "yes I've got loads of shoes and there's nothing in my fridge".
bobby280
17-12-2010
As I see it, Matt WAS the big favourite with the public but due to bad dancing has been overtaken by the two ladies. It could change of course if he pulls it out of the bag at the weekend but if he dances badly again I think the public will react to that and, even given his long established fan-base, he could be in trouble. See:

http://www.freebetsfreetips.com/blog...g-tips-18dec10
Osusana
17-12-2010
Oh for heaven's sake - NONE of them have had the 'flu. There is no such thing as mild 'flu - 'flu leaves you flat on your back, unable to summon the energy to get up, let alone dance!

It's amazing how many people say they have the 'flu when it is really a common cold.
There are other viruses that can knock you for a few days, but 'flu lasts a minimum of one week.

They've had the sniffles - that's all
Dollystanford
17-12-2010
just to say that onthehushhush was not only correct every single week with X Factor (and has been the last two or three years with Strictly), he had percentages and everything

just saying
MACTOWIN
17-12-2010
I want Kara to win she is more entertaining IMO and I dont like Matts poor me act.
Abbasolutely 40
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Dollystanford:
“just to say that onthehushhush was not only correct every single week with X Factor (and has been the last two or three years with Strictly), he had percentages and everything

just saying”

And whats the prediction on this final ,do we know ?? Please can it be Kara ? Please .
Abbasolutely 40
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Osusana:
“Oh for heaven's sake - NONE of them have had the 'flu. There is no such thing as mild 'flu - 'flu leaves you flat on your back, unable to summon the energy to get up, let alone dance!

It's amazing how many people say they have the 'flu when it is really a common cold.
There are other viruses that can knock you for a few days, but 'flu lasts a minimum of one week.

They've had the sniffles - that's all”

Heard a doctor on the radio today say If there was a €50 note on your doorstep and you had a cold , you would get up and go for it ,.If you had flu you could care less and would leave it on the mat ,
Masie_daisy
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Abbasolutely 40:
“And whats the prediction on this final ,do we know ?? Please can it be Kara ? Please .”

No Matt
sonic157
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Dorabella14:
“Judging from the DS poll elsewhere, it seems there are crazy people planning to vote 50 times/

a) that clogs up the lines so preventing others from lodging their vote;
b) disappointed voters then go away saying it's all a fix.

What's the point of voting more than twice anyway? if the lines are clogged, that means more people wanting to come onto the same number to post the same vote.

Madness.”

Voting 50 times for anyone is foolish. If everyone just voted once it would give a better idea who the public favour.
Smokeychan1
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Jan2555*GG*:
“I dont think the thought about Aliona would even come in to the BBC's thinking.......but actually I think you have it totally wrong......I think the BBC DO want Matt to win.....and the 50% rumours of votes on the semis is down to the roasting he got from the judges......guaranteed to get more votes.......and if other 'sources' are correct thats exactly what the BBC want for Matt as they featured him heavily (almost every day and including a visit to his house which hasnt happened for any other celeb on ITT) in the week following Blackpool when apparantly he didnt win the public vote.

I think its actually too close to call and I think there are a lot of people who like both Matt and Kara equally and it will depend on how they dance tomorrow”

I do think ITT has been a bit Matt heavy recently, but although not a "cribs" episode as such, we have seen Pamela's house in Scotland - James was on Billy's bed! - and Kara taking Artem home to meet Mum and Dad. So while I don't disagree with you generally** he hasnt been the only finalist to have the Strictly crew inside his home.

**Although it does irk me sometimes, I do wonder if the fact Matt gets more air time is not due to any machination on the part of the producers, it is simply a case of logistics; i.e. Matt has a camera crew following him around for CF, they may as well make use of them to produce some SCD stuff while they are at it.
Bonnie96
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Mistress:
“Yeah possibly and I agree that Matt's probably only the underdog with the judges and that Pam is the overall underdog. I was just going through the different arguments for that position.....

.......ETA: although sympathy vote is the same as voting for the perceived underdog, so actually, the argument kind of does still stand, even if the judges' scores don't mean anything.”

As far as the Judges are concerned:

Pamela is lowest in Latin, with Matt being lowest in Ballroom and overall.

Pamela is highest in Ballroom with Kara being highest in Latin and overall.

In order - Kara, Pamela, Matt.

LATIN

Code:
                        Total     	AV     	%
Kara/Artem         	208/240 	33.75 	86.67
Matt/Aliona        	202/240  	33.67 	84.17
Pamela/James     	199/240  	33.17 	82.92
BALLROOM

Code:
                        Total     	AV      %
Pamela/James     	215/240 	35.83 	89.58
Kara/Artem         	213/240 	35.50 	88.75
Matt/Aliona        	202/240 	33.67 	84.17
OVERALL

Code:
                        Total           AV      %      
Kara/Artem         	421/480 	35.08	87.71
Pamela/James     	414/480 	34.50 	86.25
Matt/Aliona        	404/480 	33.67 	84.17
The differences are too close to call but I reckon the Judges' comments are what the viewers remember so throwing that into the mix, it still all depends on the performances and the viewers' perceptions of the Judges' remarks.

The Judges don't need to score the dances to decide the winner.
LJJohnson
17-12-2010
Pamela will finish 3rd. Of that I am very confident.

As for Matt and Kara, I honestly feel it could all yet be decided. The Showdance this year is arguably the most important it's ever been. They could truly end up "dancing freestyle to win the competition".
chipsaunt
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Abbasolutely 40:
“Heard a doctor on the radio today say If there was a €50 note on your doorstep and you had a cold , you would get up and go for it ,.If you had flu you could care less and would leave it on the mat ,”

I am so lucky because I only had 'flu once when I was a child, and now I only get colds.
I suspect that the dancers have all had a virus of some sort, but not the full-blown 'flu. As you say, it makes people unable to get out of bed.

On the subject of who should win, I would say that many people expect Kara to win. Personally, I would love to see Pamela win because she is the oldest person ever to make the final (as far as I know) and she IS a good dancer. She is amazing!! The underdog (eg. Chris Hollins last year) can do it and I feel that she is the underdog at the moment.

Matt has the skills, maybe not the choreography. Kara has both, but some people think she is ahead of the other two, so maybe won't vote for her.
brendan's girl
17-12-2010
Lets face it, even if Kara doesnt win the glitterball she gets Artem which must surely be on par?
poleanna
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by brendan's girl:
“Lets face it, even if Kara doesnt win the glitterball she gets Artem which must surely be on par? ”

Much, MUCH better!!!
Tangerine_82
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by chipsaunt:
“Matt has the skills, maybe not the choreography. Kara has both, but some people think she is ahead of the other two, so maybe won't vote for her.”

I think that's a real worry during the competition but when it gets to the final, I think if people are willing to vote and they have a favourite, they don't get complacent. I think the final is when everyone knows they have to vote, even if it seems like a dead cert. Alesha had it in the bag the second Gethin went out but I still voted like a mad woman all week just in case
echad
17-12-2010
Originally Posted by Bonnie96:
“As far as the Judges are concerned:

Pamela is lowest in Latin, with Matt being lowest in Ballroom and overall.

Pamela is highest in Ballroom with Kara being highest in Latin and overall.

In order - Kara, Pamela, Matt.

LATIN

Code:
                        Total     	AV     	%
Kara/Artem         	208/240 	33.75 	86.67
Matt/Aliona        	202/240  	33.67 	84.17
Pamela/James     	199/240  	33.17 	82.92
BALLROOM

Code:
                        Total     	AV      %
Pamela/James     	215/240 	35.83 	89.58
Kara/Artem         	213/240 	35.50 	88.75
Matt/Aliona        	202/240 	33.67 	84.17
OVERALL

Code:
                        Total           AV      %      
Kara/Artem         	421/480 	35.08	87.71
Pamela/James     	414/480 	34.50 	86.25
Matt/Aliona        	404/480 	33.67 	84.17
The differences are too close to call but I reckon the Judges' comments are what the viewers remember so throwing that into the mix, it still all depends on the performances and the viewers' perceptions of the Judges' remarks.

The Judges don't need to score the dances to decide the winner.”

Bonnie, sorry to be a pain but can you do split averages to show the differences between the first and second halves of the series? Would be good to compare.
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