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Old 19-12-2010, 09:01
kennic
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With Matt having won every vote every week, and on the night of the final he was way ahead and because the votes were never wiped for the last 2 left it meant that rebecca was never goin to catch matt.
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Old 19-12-2010, 09:11
CARA2000
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The voting figures week by week show that Rebecca was never standing out really and was never really hugely popular. Not like Leona had been.

Was Rebecca meant to catch up to Matt? He was pretty much stand out since Bootcamp.
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Old 19-12-2010, 09:15
RupertPupkin
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With Matt having won every vote every week, and on the night of the final he was way ahead and because the votes were never wiped for the last 2 left it meant that rebecca was never goin to catch matt.
Yes, she did. Matt's lead was cut from something like 14% to 6% last Sunday and there was no indication of him benefitting from the Cher / 1D eliminations. He was below par due to illness we all agree and aside from a slightly dodgy duet, she was on good form and had better songs in the final.

If voting had been started afresh on Sunday or if there'd been a third song and an extra 30 minutes of voting (yes, I know but) then she'd very probably have won it.

Rebecca also benefitted from being pushed by production right up until after Matt's winner's song when, Danni aside, the judges realised (had been told) that the game was up and started praising him properly for the first time in ages.

Cowell was clearly gutted. I watched the Winner's Story on ITV2 last night and Cowell still looks gutted that Matt won. He's good at many things but acting is not one of them, as we saw with his less than convincing shock reaction to 1D's exit. I think he and his producers were sure she'd pip Matt. That was the script. It may have been the duet that cost them. I was (and am) a big fan of Rebecca but I can't say she didn't get a fair crack at it over the final weekend.
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Old 19-12-2010, 09:52
kennic
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i just feel like for example you have 70% vote to 30% how can you catch up so much ground, i do think the two acts goin into the final should have started on level ground when it came to voting, i like both matt and rebecca, out of 7 x factor shows only two who won went on to be good, Leona and alexandra, so maybe second place might do well for rebecca
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Old 19-12-2010, 10:13
RupertPupkin
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i just feel like for example you have 70% vote to 30% how can you catch up so much ground, i do think the two acts goin into the final should have started on level ground when it came to voting, i like both matt and rebecca, out of 7 x factor shows only two who won went on to be good, Leona and alexandra, so maybe second place might do well for rebecca
Support throughout the series is interesting but ultimately the final vote is what counts. The gap was nothing like 70% - 30%. It was 14% going into Sunday's show and finished at 6% so clearly it is possible to close ground and the numbers indicate that she was doing so rapidly.

I know people who watched the final having not really followed the series and they were generally stunned that Matt had won. At one point last Monday morning, there were six people in our office when the X Factor final was mentioned and five of us had watched the show and had voted for Rebecca. The other had watched the show but hadn't voted. I found myself actually defending Matt, pointing out that he had been much better over the first 8 or so weeks and had been ill etc. They just shook their heads and clearly thought the thing had been a fix. I could see why they thought that way having only caught the final. Duet aside, she battered him over the final weekend. That's only my opinion of course.

You're correct of course. If the Sunday show had started with a fresh vote the result would have been different but the rules are the rules and there was nothing unfair about it. In fact, as I said earlier, Rebecca was favoured. I thought that was clear.
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Old 19-12-2010, 10:21
ZipGypsy
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Perhaps if they'd given Rebecca something better than the horrible song that would have been her single? I don't like Matt's song at all (even if BC is singing it) but Rebecca's was, IMO, much worse.
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Old 19-12-2010, 10:32
Rosie Red
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The voting figures week by week show that Rebecca was never standing out really and was never really hugely popular. Not like Leona had been.

Was Rebecca meant to catch up to Matt? He was pretty much stand out since Bootcamp.
From his first audition I trhink. In fact, I don't think he bettered that first audition, no matter how good he was at bootcamp and after.

And personally, I prefer scruffy Matt in jeans and a cap, the way he was at that audition. Get him out of a suit!! That's what they did to Shayne. Ultimately, it doesn't work. Let them be themselves.
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Old 19-12-2010, 10:38
kennic
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i do think the winner of the x factor waits to long to release an album and therefore does not do well when they come out, like last years winner Joe only started to promote his single in november and some people i talked to asked who is he? i do think the winner should at least have an album out in 3 months rather than in 10 or 11 months, Strike while the iron is hot
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Old 19-12-2010, 10:44
Queen Maeve
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Support throughout the series is interesting but ultimately the final vote is what counts. The gap was nothing like 70% - 30%. It was 14% going into Sunday's show and finished at 6% so clearly it is possible to close ground and the numbers indicate that she was doing so rapidly.

I know people who watched the final having not really followed the series and they were generally stunned that Matt had won. At one point last Monday morning, there were six people in our office when the X Factor final was mentioned and five of us had watched the show and had voted for Rebecca. The other had watched the show but hadn't voted. I found myself actually defending Matt, pointing out that he had been much better over the first 8 or so weeks and had been ill etc. They just shook their heads and clearly thought the thing had been a fix. I could see why they thought that way having only caught the final. Duet aside, she battered him over the final weekend. That's only my opinion of course.
You're correct of course. If the Sunday show had started with a fresh vote the result would have been different but the rules are the rules and there was nothing unfair about it. In fact, as I said earlier, Rebecca was favoured. I thought that was clear.
and didn't know how sick he was for the last few weeks - tbf, it was astounding he could actually sing - SF he was just about hanging in there - but looked so feverish.

But he never made a big thing about that ( nor did Mary) and I know loads of people who didn't know how ill he was.

Finally, why didn't they put Rebecca on First in running order - I do think it is an advantage in the Final.

I think the overal voting for the series revealed that the end result was fair.

I cant think of many 'stand out' moments for Rebecca during the Live shows, I often thought that was OK, but a day later her performance was a blur.

With Matt he had so many - and that was what won it for him too on the Final night, people had become fans and were supporting where as Rebecca probably got the casual voter.

Winning is just a title, the real challenge is the album - a whole different story.
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Old 19-12-2010, 11:44
tomi-08
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and didn't know how sick he was for the last few weeks - tbf, it was astounding he could actually sing - SF he was just about hanging in there - but looked so feverish.

But he never made a big thing about that ( nor did Mary) and I know loads of people who didn't know how ill he was.

Finally, why didn't they put Rebecca on First in running order - I do think it is an advantage in the Final.

I think the overal voting for the series revealed that the end result was fair.

I cant think of many 'stand out' moments for Rebecca during the Live shows, I often thought that was OK, but a day later her performance was a blur.

With Matt he had so many - and that was what won it for him too on the Final night, people had become fans and were supporting where as Rebecca probably got the casual voter.

Winning is just a title, the real challenge is the album - a whole different story.
THIS.
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Old 19-12-2010, 12:02
Perdita_x
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I get what people are saying about once it's down to the final 2 wipe the voting clean, but that would mean everyone would have to vote twice for their preferred act...I mean if you had voted Matt at the beginning of the final, they then wipe that, so for him to win, you need to vote again. I can see that a lot of people might get a bit upset at that!
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Old 19-12-2010, 12:02
PAL65
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My personal opinion is she had a chance but blew it. She had too few stand out songs in comparison to what people regard as were stand out for Matt in the shows leading up to the final. In the final itself, for me, she blew 3 out of the 4 chances she had. The duet with CA was ill advised, her voice did not suit the duet, CA has too many gears and just left Rebecca in her slipstream, Rebecca also looked a bit shell shocked. Sweet Dreams was brilliant but her other two final songs were very forgettable. She did not give herself the best chance, if she had shone in those other 3 blown opportunities, who knows, but 2 terrible song choices and a poor duet choice sunk her. Just my thoughts.
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Old 19-12-2010, 12:19
wkdstepmother
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Support throughout the series is interesting but ultimately the final vote is what counts. The gap was nothing like 70% - 30%. It was 14% going into Sunday's show and finished at 6% so clearly it is possible to close ground and the numbers indicate that she was doing so rapidly.

I know people who watched the final having not really followed the series and they were generally stunned that Matt had won. At one point last Monday morning, there were six people in our office when the X Factor final was mentioned and five of us had watched the show and had voted for Rebecca. The other had watched the show but hadn't voted. I found myself actually defending Matt, pointing out that he had been much better over the first 8 or so weeks and had been ill etc. They just shook their heads and clearly thought the thing had been a fix. I could see why they thought that way having only caught the final. Duet aside, she battered him over the final weekend. That's only my opinion of course.

You're correct of course. If the Sunday show had started with a fresh vote the result would have been different but the rules are the rules and there was nothing unfair about it. In fact, as I said earlier, Rebecca was favoured. I thought that was clear.
the statistics misleading as they don't properly deal with the move from 4 constestants down to 2. If you look at the votes between distrubution between Matt and Rebecca there was a 6% movement after Cher went out, but there was very little movement on Sunday. Whether this is to do with team Cheryl fans moving to her other act or the performances or a bit of both, we don't know.

I think the Winner's story was quite revealing last night. SC obviously was concerned that Matt was going to storm away with the show and he didn't want that to happen (whether because he didn't want him to win or he was worried the vote would be down if the winner was cut and dried we will never know) and from that point he started pimping Rebecca relentessly. She was given opportunity after opportunity to have her "moment" and she didn't really deliver.

However, with Sweet Dreams in the final she finally had it - easily her best performance and after Matt's Dido (which was good but safe) I really thought she might come through. Matt's duet was better but Becca's solo was the stand out performance of Saturday night. I think Matt's winner's song was much better than Becca's though.

How this was reflected in the voting is very difficult to say and there are two schools of thought - that of Rebecca fans which is effectively she was gaining and so much better than him at the end or those of Matt's that he was so superior that even sick for the 2 most important weeks he beat of the competition.

Actually it doesn't really matter its done now - he won and she was second. They both have their record contracts and probably very different target markets - so long as no-one is stupid enough to pit their albums against each other presumably they can co-exist happily
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Old 19-12-2010, 12:36
Paparazzo
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Personally, I think coming in second place will make Rebecca better off.

And, she lost out by 6.something%, so it was close-ish.

Put it this way, she was more of a contender than No Direction and Cher.
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Old 19-12-2010, 13:25
wkdstepmother
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Personally, I think coming in second place will make Rebecca better off.

And, she lost out by 6.something%, so it was close-ish.

Put it this way, she was more of a contender than No Direction and Cher.
that is actually the most interesting - that 1d and cher had so many less votes than both Matt and Rebecca
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Old 19-12-2010, 14:28
SpecialClub
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My personal opinion is she had a chance but blew it. She had too few stand out songs...
But whose fault was that?

She had no chance, unless:

1. The girls had been given a different mentor.

Sadly Cher and Katie were 'very Cheryl' and that informed the categorisation. It also put Rebecca at an immediate disadvantage. Yet she was still able to see off her less popular rivals in the same category, but by the time Cheryl began to strongly give Rebecca her vocal backing, Matt had already well and truly got away.

2. The three other acts in the category had been Treyc, Treyc and Treyc.

I feel that Cheryl does not know what to do with actual singers (i.e. the classical singer last year who she rejected) and prefers to work with image-based acts. In other words ones she can relate to.
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Old 19-12-2010, 14:39
RupertPupkin
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My personal opinion is she had a chance but blew it. She had too few stand out songs in comparison to what people regard as were stand out for Matt in the shows leading up to the final. In the final itself, for me, she blew 3 out of the 4 chances she had. The duet with CA was ill advised, her voice did not suit the duet, CA has too many gears and just left Rebecca in her slipstream, Rebecca also looked a bit shell shocked. Sweet Dreams was brilliant but her other two final songs were very forgettable. She did not give herself the best chance, if she had shone in those other 3 blown opportunities, who knows, but 2 terrible song choices and a poor duet choice sunk her. Just my thoughts.
I thought Just Like A Star and Distant Dreamer were superb. I don't like Sweet Dreams much as a song so wasn't as taken with it as most were. Aside from the duet (and that was nowhere near as bad as has been claimmed on here) I thought she was very, very good from the semi final stage onwards. All just opinions though. Not enough people voted for her and that's what counts.
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Old 19-12-2010, 14:43
wkdstepmother
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I thought Just Like A Star and Distant Dreamer were superb. I don't like Sweet Dreams much as a song so wasn't as taken with it as most were. Aside from the duet (and that was nowhere near as bad as has been claimmed on here) I thought she was very, very good from the semi final stage onwards. All just opinions though. Not enough people voted for her and that's what counts.
I loved Sweet Dreams but I'm an Annie Lennox fan and I thought she did a great job with it. That said Rebecca isn't my type of singer so no surprise I liked the one that was different to whereas those that are Rebecca fans maybe didn't.

The one thing I would hope we can agree on is that they are both very talented and will go far.
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Old 19-12-2010, 14:48
Mateja
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Did Rebecca have any chance? Probably not, because Matt, as mediocre as he was week after week, was always leading in voting (except week 1).

It's all a matter of taste, you see. I didn't like any of Matt's performances and I loved almost everything Rebecca did.
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Old 19-12-2010, 14:55
Paparazzo
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Did Rebecca have any chance? Probably not, because Matt, as mediocre as he was week after week, was always leading in voting (except week 1).

It's all a matter of taste, you see. I didn't like any of Matt's performances and I loved almost everything Rebecca did.
and not being funny or anything but some weeks he was awful
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Old 19-12-2010, 15:41
RupertPupkin
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The one thing I would hope we can agree on is that they are both very talented and will go far.
Yes, they certainly both can but I suspect one or both of them will fall away within a year or two, possibly for reasons beyond their control.

I hope the Syco people have learned lessons and run these two for the longer term, allowing them to operate on their own terms and within a genre that suits their talents and interests.

The signs so far are actually good, if you consider the choices for winner's songs. I think those choices are a pointer to how Cowell and his people see them progressing. Matt's song is not great in my opinion but at least it's not pop. Cowell must know that Matt will not cut it in pop. He's too old for a start and would be very unhappy and probably less than pliable if not allowed to do something approaching his own thing. Far better to give him his chance doing indi-type stuff. Cowell knows this and that's why I think he'd have preferred him not to win.

Rebecca's Duffy cover has a vaguely motown sound to it and I think Cowell sees that as a good compromise. He was never gonna back her as a Sade type jazz singer. I also don't believe for a second that Rebecca fancies a career in jazz. I think the jazz songstress image was very much a show creation. She backed it up in interview by namechecking Holliday, Simone etc but scratching below the surface, it was clear that her musical interests were very modern, with Whitney Houston, Tupac and even Kings of Leon being mentioned repeatedly among her favourite artists.
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Old 19-12-2010, 15:48
RupertPupkin
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and not being funny or anything but some weeks he was awful
He was indeed. Bleeding Love week, Beatles week, semi final week - not good at all. And no great shakes in the final either. I would readily say though that he was hampered by some really poor song choices and diabolical styling and arrangement.

If people had voted on talent alone, Matt would not have won. It was absolutely clear from reading posts on this forum that the attraction to him was largely sexual. I'm not saying that Matt didn't have female fans who didn't fancy him. Of course he did but on this forum a least they were in a small minority I think.
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Old 19-12-2010, 15:50
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My personal opinion is she had a chance but blew it. She had too few stand out songs in comparison to what people regard as were stand out for Matt in the shows leading up to the final. In the final itself, for me, she blew 3 out of the 4 chances she had. The duet with CA was ill advised, her voice did not suit the duet, CA has too many gears and just left Rebecca in her slipstream, Rebecca also looked a bit shell shocked. Sweet Dreams was brilliant but her other two final songs were very forgettable. She did not give herself the best chance, if she had shone in those other 3 blown opportunities, who knows, but 2 terrible song choices and a poor duet choice sunk her. Just my thoughts.
I think this is largely spot on.

I also believe that her lack of versatility is what really led to her downfall.

All her performances were practically indistinguishable from another & I read & listened to a lot of commentary of folk who claimed to have grown bored of her.

Had she been able to mix it up a bit, I believe she could have won.
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Old 19-12-2010, 15:50
PAL65
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But whose fault was that?

She had no chance, unless:

1. The girls had been given a different mentor.

Sadly Cher and Katie were 'very Cheryl' and that informed the categorisation. It also put Rebecca at an immediate disadvantage. Yet she was still able to see off her less popular rivals in the same category, but by the time Cheryl began to strongly give Rebecca her vocal backing, Matt had already well and truly got away.

2. The three other acts in the category had been Treyc, Treyc and Treyc.

I feel that Cheryl does not know what to do with actual singers (i.e. the classical singer last year who she rejected) and prefers to work with image-based acts. In other words ones she can relate to.
I have said on another thread that I did not think she was mentored well, I was then told I was on an anti CC crusade which was not the case. I have become very interested in what the mentors actually do. I wonder if its all a bit of pretend really, what one person might consider being a mentor involves might not match with what the show or the mentors themselves think it should be.
Other people did in fact think she had been well mentored, on the basis she made the final, did safe songs and remained in her comfort zone. personally for me she had to push harder with more inspired song choices and I believe she had to get out of the comfort zone.I might be wrong about that but I felt Matt gotr it on a plate, there was not a true contender to oppose him, there was an opportunity for someone to step up but she missed it.
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Old 19-12-2010, 15:55
PAL65
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I thought Just Like A Star and Distant Dreamer were superb. I don't like Sweet Dreams much as a song so wasn't as taken with it as most were. Aside from the duet (and that was nowhere near as bad as has been claimmed on here) I thought she was very, very good from the semi final stage onwards. All just opinions though. Not enough people voted for her and that's what counts.
I did not know those two songs at all and I thought if I did not know them how many of the viewers did. Its a risk , I think,to do 'unknown' stuff especially at this stage. If they are well known then its just me getting it wrong (again) but I felt she missed opportunities.She sang them well to be fair. The duet was not a calamity but it did not help her either, for me three opportunities lost, but its all down to opinion.
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