It's not just me who thinks the judges were biased.

They are impartial. It is just that their criteria and yours are incompatible. The judges are looking the score the best dancer highest whereas your own user name tells me that you are looking to score Matt & Aliona the highest. As Matt wasn't the best dancer it was always inevitable that you would feel they were biased. And why do you think they thought Kara was the best dancer? It was actually Pamela who was placed 1st last night by the judges until the biased public eliminated her.

I don't agree it worked in their favour this year.

They were biased against both Matt and Kara for some time, and only adopted Kara right at the end, as it was very clear they didn't want Matt to win at any cost.

I'm still unsure why they disliked Matt and Aliona so much. But my hunch is, it mostly emanated from Len's dislike of Aliona's contemporary and risky choreography.

Such a shame, I would have liked Matt and Aliona to win, although Kara was a very worthy winner in her own right.

Thank heavens though that the dancing courgette was booted when the public got the chance.

Of course it isn't just you. Anyone who had as their favourite anyone who the judges didn't place first on a regular basis will think they are biased. That doesn't mean they are, it just says more about you and other posters than it does about the judges.

I am not saying they are always right. Len in particular does some pretty daft things at times (like giving Ann and Anton anything higher than a 3 at best) but I don't accept that they are biased.

They told Matt off for the 'tricks' in his showdance eventhough he did them well. They said to Kara well done for taking risks for all the tricks in her showdance eventhough she fluffed it so many times!

You seem to be saying that having a favourite prevents someone from recognising bias. You also seem to be saying that if your favourite isn't voted for favourably by the judges you will think they are biased.


If this is your view then I think with respect, it's a bit simplistic and I really don't agree with you.

Whilst I repect your opinion here, in my view, all the evidence I witnessed over this series suggests they clearly were biased in favour of certain dancers, and against certain others.

I am not saying that having a favourite means you can't be impartial, but for a lot of people it will make it harder for you to be more objective and it is quite natural when you have a personal favourite to assume, when the judges don't agree with you, that they are biased against your favourite. That's not being simplistic, it's human nature.

The judges are marking based on dance performance, technical content etc whereas the public will include things like whether or not they like the celebrity, whether or not they are in their favourite soap, whether or not they would shag them given half a chance.

As a trained dancer, albeit some years ago, I tend to base my choice of who to vote for on how they dance and that alone(which can change from week to week) and in a lot of cases I end up agreeing with the order that the judges have, especially Craig so on that basis I don't consider them to be biased at all.

Kara definitely deserved to win but I agree with the OP, the judges were clearly undermarking Matt whle praising Kara to the high heavens.

Well, from a 'dance' standpoint, Kara's had a lot more 'dance' content whether or not performed perfectly. In my view, judging purely on dance performance, I thought Matt's was absolutely terrible irrespective of how well he performed his back somersaults. That is because I am judging it as a showdance rather than the final of the floor exercise in the Olympic gymnastics. Sometimes a safe but perfectly executed dance (Pamela) will be better than a brilliant but poorly executed dance (Kara) but sometimes a perfectly executed but poor dance (Matt) will not be better than a poorly executed but brilliant dance (Kara). I think the judges had the order spot on.

But I am not a dancer and I hate the changes! I still watch because I am a dance fan! I'm watching in spite of the crappy changes not because of them!

It's not so much the marks that bother me (although they're often odd) but the way they speak to Matt, especially Len, is often with a tone of disgust

That samba routine had more samba content than all the samba routines this series put together, and it had a couple of back-flips at the end. It was a full on samba routine, one that we would do in a dance competition. It definitely had more content than Kara's AS.

I thought as a whole Kara is an amazing dancer. But during the final she did not dance very well. Her rumba was not the same standard as before. She stumbled through her waltz and was dancing rather like a ragged doll, which is uncharacteristic of her, and even her AS was not up to the same standard that she had previously danced.

Before the final I wanted Kara to win, but based on the final, I thought Matt deserved to win.

*Applauds loudly*

Oh, and applause for all your other posts in this thread! Spot on.

I've lost count of the number of times FMs have criticised Craig for being biased against their favourite. He was extremely critical of Kara last night about what he perceived as flaws in her dancing, but the aftershow comments on the Strictly website prove that he was ecstatic that she won. Had he been biased, wouldn't he have shaken the dust off that 10 paddle a while back?

I have read other posts from dancers (who understand these things where I do not) saying that Matt was too light on his feet to do the samba or paso justice - something technical about digging into the floor or something. I thought both dances were great, so what do I know? But that's the difference - I'm seeing them from an entertainment point of view, not necessarily a technical one. You'd think after eight series, I could tell the difference between a salsa and a samba, but I still get them confused.

Matt was criticised for the show dance not just because there were too many tricks and lifts (Kara got the same criticism for that aspect) but because of the transitions between them. Again, this is technobabble to me, but it's perfectly acceptable in my view for the judges to judge on those grounds - that's their job.

I've been happier with the judges this year than virtually any previous year, with the exception of some of Len's more whacky sayings. Yes, some of the marking was bizarre, but the all-important positions on the leader-board were broadly correct, the best three couples got into the final and the best couple won. Bias? You might as well accuse the Great British Public of being biased!

Please read the threads about Kara's injury, sustained in the show dance - it's amazing that she was able to dance at all.

Generally, thoughout the weeks, I thought the judges leaderboard was about right. The best one was at the top and the worst one was at the bottom (most weeks).

The public vote was the one at fault, keeping wooden Gavin in so long and bumping poor Tina so early, when she had potential.

As for last night, I thought Matt should have been third, Pamela second and Kara first.

I quite like the judging panel. A good mix of comments from people who are looking at things from different angles. I think Alesha is usually most accurate, as she is likely to be seeing things the way viewers see them, not looking for technical errors. I know some people don't like her, but I always have.

Perhaps, but it was an injury to her wrist, which is not essential to dance a good Waltz. And that doesn't explain her Rumba. She just seemed very nervous last night, and didn't manage to pull herself together. I was really looking forward to her amazing performance and was disappointed.

are backflips usual for a samba routine?

I agree that Matt's samba had a lot of samba content and thought it was well danced. I like certain things about his paso, and think it compared well with other celebs' pasos but do agree with some of the judges' comments, particularly regarding his posture/need for more finesse. I was not keen on any of the show dances, but did not think that Matt and Aliona's compared particularly badly with the others.

I also agree that Kara did not dance as well as before, but given her injury it was understandable, and the rumba in particular was still stunning and the showdance adventurous. Taking everything into account I think she did deserve to win, but obviously it was disappointing (but unavoidable) that we didn't see her at her best.

Thank you

I agree, it was wonderful to see the best three dancers in the final. Rather refreshing after my fears that Widdy might have 'not danced' her way to the final.

No. But neither is dancing out of hold in any of the ballroom dances, or using props, or dancing an AS completely out of hold. But these are things that we see on SCD quite regularly, because the pros want to wow the public as well. Matt's Samba had all the content that a competitive Samba should have. Unlike with the other male celebrities, he danced completely equal to Aliona, and was not used as a pole around which Aliona can pose and do drops. Should he be penalized for adding a few backflips at the end of it?!

Irrelevant. He had backflips in addition to samba content, not INSTEAD OF IT, like Kara's showdancing in the American Smooth,.

well yes, if other dancers are going to be penalised for the things you mention

it's all down to consistency - no-one would have a problem if they were all scored in the same way but they aren't

as a kara fan, it annoyed me that pamela got a 40 for a dance with a clear, obvious stumble in it and poor posture, whereas kara got marked down for 'being a bit to the right' in her tango, whatever the hell that means LEN

but I agreed with Craig about the lifts

He didn't do backflips instead of Samba, he did it as well as the samba. I had an American friend watching SCD with us last night, who had danced American Smooth in competition. After Kara's last dance she was somewhat in awe "That was an American Smooth?!" was her reaction to it. This is not a Kara bashing message, I love her dancing (not in the final, at least!). But I'm comparing the 2 dances for you. Her AS had no ballroom content in it. Matt's had all the content required by a Samba in it. Lot's of couples finish a dance with a pivot or a drop, Matt did it with a backflip.

And he's perfectly free to do that routine in a real dance competition (although it'll be a bit dangerous as there are other couples on the floor), but Kara's AS would be disqualified had it been in a real dance competition.

Female posture should be such that she stays on the left side of the man. It isn't just something Len has made up. It is quite a fundamental requirement and it makes the job more difficult for the man if the woman drifts right. That said I didn't notice any particular problem in Kara's tango at the time and on looking back at it, I think she may have drifted slightly right in the promenades, but generally I think Len was being picky and just mentioned it in passing because Kara is so good and could take it on board (it is quite difficult to stay on the left when you first start dancing). He wouldn't have bothered to make the comment with a lesser dancer - a compliment to Kara really. Personally I'd rather hear those criticisms than something bland, but perhaps Kara was marked a bit more stringently than she should have been.