What has annoyed me is that he deucted a point both times for an "illegal lift" in the rumba of Kara and Artem, but for their American Smooth which has strict rules (Len should know), he ignored the rules of a certain amount in hold and gave them a 10.

Why??

Craig does seem to pick and choose which rules are important to him.

He's not alone in that though, and he's still the judge whose scores I respect and agree with the most.

Because he doesn't know what he's talking about when it comes to the rules of ballroom and latin dancing?

Why? He's very incosistent, anything from half decent to some of the most stunning routines the show has ever seen will get a 9 from him, but because he's meagre with the 10's people think he's consistent.

Also, Craig has never given a champion a 10 outside the final.

I do think he knows his stuff, but he irritates me when he does that. IMO Kara's Rumba was robbed of a perfect 40 when to me there was no lift. Even Karen Hardy said it wasn't a lift and shouldn't have been penalised!! So picky.

The "rule" about staying in hold would not be explicit, because nobody will dance ballroom in serious competition out of hold for much duration except perhaps in quickstep straying into swing. Craig with his theatrical background favours appeal and atmosphere except where explicit rules intervene.

Strictly has stipulated that in the AS two lifts are permitted, no more.

Brendan with Kelly Brook put in a third lift because Brendan felt like it. Craig pointed it out from his first word. 3 judges each deducted 2 points, but emotional rebel Bruno marked 10 regardless, which suggests it would have been four 10's as early as Week 4.

There are now three lifts allowed in the American Smooth. They changed it for this series.

To be honest as a Kartem fan

Kara's foot in the Rumba leaving the floor when it shouldn't was her fault so she should be penalised which she was.

The choreography for the A. Smooth and her not being in hold was Artem's fault not Kara's and seeing as they are scoring Kara not Artem they shouldn't have penalised her.

If anyone was a hypocrite imo it was Len as he marked her down for something that wasn't her fault but didn't penalise her when she lifted her foot of the ground. I would have given her A.S. a 10 and the Rumba a 9.

It's no good challenging one of the "qualities" necessary for being a judge on this show.

As far as Strictly (SCD) and its relative programmes (SDF) are concerned the rule has always been explicit:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/strictlycomedan...n_smooth.shtml
http://www.bbc.co.uk/strictlydancefe...g/smooth.shtml

(I don't know AS very well, but I think the rule may not be explicit in real American Smooth competitions. I believe the guidance is that there is certain amount of dancing that can be done out of hold and some typical steps that would be done e.g. underarm turns)


OK, so let's take an extreme example. Say a couple were supposed to dance a waltz but instead they danced a rumba, wouldn't you expect them to be penalised irrespective of the fact that it wasn't the celeb's fault? Where do you draw the line? If people can dance anything and still get good marks then there wouldn't be any point in attempting anything more difficult like the samba say. (Not that I'm saying Kara's dance wasn't difficult - it was. But just not meeting the definition of a Strictly AS).

Well the out of hold stuff Kara did that was American Smooth she did very well. She did dance an American Smooth. If someone did like you say a rumba when they should have done a waltz they should be marked down massively because they wouldn't be doing a waltz but at the end of the day it's not the celeb's fault it's the pros. (I really don't know how to answer your question )

you are obviously not in the Craig fanclub lol.

If the pro dancer choreographed in defiance of rules then that would be the sin of commission. If a celeb failed to dance the required syllabus that would be the sin of omission. The celeb cannot get away scot-free it by claiming "just following orders". I am not sure who should adjudicate an appeal, perhaps The World Dance Council or the European Court?

Yes the two will lift the glitterball together or be penalised together. They can have the punchup afterwards.

Equally, you could argue that Len is a hypocrite for marking Kara down in the AS for not being in hold enough, yet he didn't bring up the fact of her foot leaving the floor in the rumba.

Trying to fathom the vagaries of the judges will only make your head hurt.

I think Craig is taking off marks for faults which happen to break the rules instead of things which just break the rules.

Has there been a blatant and completely deliberate in-your-faces-judges Brendan-esque lift this series?

I think the rules need to be clarified and enforced consistently next year.

The choreographers need to know that points will be deducted (by all of the judges) if feet come off the floor or if they spend nearly all of a dance out-of-hold.

Not my ideal/preferred solution because I think the judges need to be allowed a bit of discretion or difference of opinion (and it's a bit po-faced/heavy-handed), but there have far too many decent-but-confusing/controversial hybrid dances this year.

I think Kara & Artem should have made their AS rules-compliant for the final too.

Could they be formally told at the rehearsals that they are in breach of the rules. It might be too late to correct but they at least cannot say they had not been told?

Yes and yes. The first half of the series was absolutely littered with illegal lifts and tricks - most of which came from Anton. I haven't analysed every dance, but there were also lifts in Kara and Artem's paso doble and nobody turned a hair. Then suddenly, in the middle of the series, Len had a hissy fit, stamped his foot and said 'no more illegal lifts!'

You are right - there has been a lot of confusion this year, part of which is explained by the inclusion of new or newish dances that aren't in the strict canon. So, for example, there should be no lifts in the waltz, VW, foxtrot, quickstep or tango; no lifts in the rumba, samba, cha-cha or jive. But lifts are allowed in American Smooth (up to three this year), Argentine Tango, salsa, Charleston and swing.

But I suspect the real reason for the relaxation of the rules was Widdy, and Anton's need to make their dances as comedic as possible. Lord knows he couldn't hope to win the public vote by dancing alone.

Please explain the difference.

I think the poster means that Craig takes a point off if you break a rule by making a mistake, but if you deliberately break the rules, he's ok with that.

So Kara accidentally lifts a foot in rumba - gets a 9, doesn't do the required dancing in hold in AS - gets a 10.

Ah right and thanks.

Yep, I don't think the illegal life aspect of feet coming off the floor is foremost in Craig's mind; he just thinks it looks bad.

American Smooth is danced in serious competitions, and the explicit rule for it is that it has to be 40% in hold.

Thanks. I thought there had to be something in the competition rules but couldn't find it when I googled it (very quick search though). Could only find the Strictly rules.

In the interests of a level playing field, perhaps they should make the rule book available to all at the start, not half way through, or when it suits the agenda of the producer.

Thanks to Vivacious Lady the Strictly website's actual AS rule:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/strictlycomedan...n_smooth.shtml

Strictly website navigation is not reader-friendly, could it be that even 3 well-paid judges did not familiarise themselves with the fine print, or have forgotten what they read.

Probably no other couple danced out of hold to the extent that Artem prefers so that this rule may have been forgotten by most. 3 years ago it was clearly said by Craig that 2 lifts and no more were allowed. The rule below says "a lift". If 2 lifts are still applicable then the rule contradicts itself. Len previously complained that Kara's first AS showed no foxtrot steps and marked it 6 for that reason, again the rule itself made no such stipulation. A dog's dinner comes to mind.

Artem is so keen on out-of-hold that even standing in front of judges, he likes to stand a few paces behind Kara, showcasing and applauding his star pupil.