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Old 21-12-2010, 22:31
Robert__law
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Was interested to see the BBC is to experiment with surround sound radio see-

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcas...echnology.html

back in the 70s the BBC did quadraphonic broadcasts

I am using a vintage (1975) quatravox decoder which probably uses a hefler circuit by adjusting controls gives a quad effect fills the room and adds depth to the music using 4 speakers

I use this to listen to Tay AM and Wave 102 also some late night programs on Radio 3 come over good in this
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Old 21-12-2010, 22:52
Colin_London
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This is hardly an 'experiment' nowadays is it?

Surround Sound broadcasting on TV (AC-3, Multi Channel AAC) has been around for some time, and on the internet there are equivalents such as MP3 Surround and WMA Professional.

I imagine that this will just be surround sound streaming to PCs (much like the Radio 3 'HD' streaming).
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Old 21-12-2010, 22:56
MikeBr
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This is hardly an 'experiment' nowadays is it?

Surround Sound broadcasting on TV (AC-3, Multi Channel AAC) has been around for some time, and on the internet there are equivalents such as MP3 Surround and WMA Professional.

I imagine that this will just be surround sound streaming to PCs (much like the Radio 3 'HD' streaming).
The original report in the Telegraph says:

"internet broadcasts could allow listeners with the right equipment to hear 3D transmissions relatively easily."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...-3D-radio.html
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Old 21-12-2010, 23:18
trevorharris
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I wouldn't expect much surround from the BBC. They broadcast very little in surround on the BBC HD channels where as it has become the norm on Sky channels. It is also noticable that most of the american output is in surround.
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Old 21-12-2010, 23:55
stripedcat
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Well they have broadcast some of Hitchiker''s Guide to the Galaxy and the Dirk Gently adaptations in Dolby surround.
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Old 22-12-2010, 20:49
Sid Law
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Was interested to see the BBC is to experiment with surround sound radio see-

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/broadcas...echnology.html

back in the 70s the BBC did quadraphonic broadcasts

I am using a vintage (1975) quatravox decoder which probably uses a hefler circuit by adjusting controls gives a quad effect fills the room and adds depth to the music using 4 speakers

I use this to listen to Tay AM and Wave 102 also some late night programs on Radio 3 come over good in this
Robert, I take it your listening to Tay AM on DAB?

I'll bet that old decoder softens the harsh mp2 sound and gives it a nice warm, rich sound.
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Old 22-12-2010, 21:06
trevorharris
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Well they have broadcast some of Hitchiker''s Guide to the Galaxy and the Dirk Gently adaptations in Dolby surround.
Well Dirk Gently was not in Dolby Surround on my Sky HD box. The BBC did get the phases wrong on one of the stereo channels for a few minutes at the start. This can fool dolby prologic into decoding it as the rear channel and this may be why you thought it was surround sound.
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Old 23-12-2010, 11:02
hanssolo
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Well they have broadcast some of Hitchiker''s Guide to the Galaxy and the Dirk Gently adaptations in Dolby surround.
I think (also the Wiki says) it was Surround WMA files which were downloaded for just a short period and could be plyed back over PCs with surround sound cards rather than over the air.
The Hitchiker's audio was reased on a Dolby surround sound only DVD!

Dolby prologic surround sound can be used on MPEG layer 2 at 256k on TV but not on radio (as far as i can find).

Franhoffer did a test with BBC content (sport, music and drama) on DAB D1 UK and DRM+ test in Paris with 2 channels MPEG layer 2 or AAC and the other channels AAC.
http://www.drm.org/old/index.php?id=353
But so far does not look like will become regular!
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Old 24-12-2016, 08:22
hanssolo
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Noticed this on the R2 schedule
Mark Gatiss leads a company of star actors as Scrooge, in a new surround sound adaptation of 'A Christmas Carol,' featuring in this special 'Friday Night Is Music Night' recorded at the Royal Festival Hall. The concert includes six scenes from the Dickens classic, recorded in a new process that aurally puts the audience into the supernatural world of the Ghosts of Christmas Past, Present and Future.
A further search found this for binaural sound using headphones (rather thsn multichannels) and also recently used on r4 and proms.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/rd/projects/binaural-broadcasting
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Old 24-12-2016, 09:04
Inkblot
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I'm not sure the BBC article is correct in saying that "listening to stereo programmes over headphones gives a flat impression with sounds coming from inside the head".

Those earbud-style phones that seal off your ear canal do have that problem; they can sound very good with deep bass but the soundstage is between the ears. However even a cheap pair of on-ear earphones can sound more realistic with sounds coming from around you, not just "inside the head".
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Old 24-12-2016, 11:26
hanssolo
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I'm not sure the BBC article is correct in saying that "listening to stereo programmes over headphones gives a flat impression with sounds coming from inside the head".

Those earbud-style phones that seal off your ear canal do have that problem; they can sound very good with deep bass but the soundstage is between the ears. However even a cheap pair of on-ear earphones can sound more realistic with sounds coming from around you, not just "inside the head".
binaural sound relies on the headshape where subtle phases help the 2 ears to work out if the sound is in front or behind. The broadcast tricks the ears to recreate this effect. The Click clip on the link has the presenter walking round the mics which seems to work for me.
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Old 24-12-2016, 16:50
Phil Dodd
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A problem has always been fitting four separate speakers into the average-sized living room. Do you make all four equal in performance, or the rear ones just a token reproduction of the treble frequencies ? Speaker wires to at least one speaker have to go over a doorway or under a carpet. Do you have a bass subwoofer in the centre front ? Which chair in the room is going to be made the "optimum listening point" ? It is not practical to have an armchair dead in the centre of the family living room.

I have to say that it is far easier to listen on headphones. Indeed in the 1970s when I lived in a bedsitter in north London, amongst the Tottenham Court Road junk that I bought over the years was a set of four-channel headphones. I didn't go as far as building a four-channel decoder, but created a four-channel effect by reversing the phase of the two rear speakers as compared to the front set. A problem was that they were surprisingly heavy to wear, especially for a two-hour concert.

When the first "binaural head" was used to make broadcasts by the BBC, I'd migrated to a pair of Yamaha headphones which gave superb reproduction ( over-ear type ), and indeed they gave a spacial effect with the broadcast.

Overall, the BBC served us well with the help of recording engineer Angus McKenzie, who described in great detail in the 1970s magazine "Studio Sound" how he made classical recordings using just a crossed pair of cardoid microphones suspended over the orchestra, and doing away with the complete mish-mash of individually mic-ing separate players or groups of players. It always gave an impressive reproduction listening on headphones. The problems that he had to overcome were the effect of the air conditioning affecting the microphones, and the random "popping" of early electret microphones - but being a genius, he took it in his stride.

During the 1970s, the popular electronics and radio magazines published constructional articles for decoding surround sound from various sound sources, and some decoding methods worked better than others. The amount of construction work and cabinet building was probably the biggest obstacle to making such equipment. To buy, of course, it was at the luxury end of the market...

All I can say is that if any of you have the listening room and the equipment to decode surround sound as a regular part of life, then well done on achieving that ! Us lesser mortals have to make do with getting something to give a convincing sound from one or two channels...
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Old 24-12-2016, 20:42
PhilipS
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It is not practical to have an armchair dead in the centre of the family living room.
Oh, it is. You just need to have no family, and no friends. I bet the Grinch had a brilliant surround system
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Old 26-12-2016, 10:52
hanssolo
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I have to say that it is far easier to listen on headphones. Indeed in the 1970s when I lived in a bedsitter in north London, amongst the Tottenham Court Road junk that I bought over the years was a set of four-channel headphones. I didn't go as far as building a four-channel decoder, but created a four-channel effect by reversing the phase of the two rear speakers as compared to the front set. A problem was that they were surprisingly heavy to wear, especially for a two-hour concert.

When the first "binaural head" was used to make broadcasts by the BBC, I'd migrated to a pair of Yamaha headphones which gave superb reproduction ( over-ear type ), and indeed they gave a spacial effect with the broadcast.

Overall, the BBC served us well with the help of recording engineer Angus McKenzie, who described in great detail in the 1970s magazine "Studio Sound" how he made classical recordings using just a crossed pair of cardoid microphones suspended over the orchestra, and doing away with the complete mish-mash of individually mic-ing separate players or groups of players. It always gave an impressive reproduction listening on headphones. The problems that he had to overcome were the effect of the air conditioning affecting the microphones, and the random "popping" of early electret microphones - but being a genius, he took it in his stride.
From the "Click" clip there are now software tools for placing sound locations which Angus McKenzie never had, which makes use of normal headphones more viable for binaural listening. The Scrouge recording did seem to work with the Royal Festival hall echos and sound effects.
Hopefully there will be more broadcasts in 2017.

Would still be good to have some proper multichannel radio for speakers though internet or the space on D1 DAB+ (as once tested back in 2007 I think)

Edit found the D1 DAB surround sound test thread
http://forums.digitalspy.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1056829
But there is no kit for easily linking DAB+ to a 5.1 surround sound system so sadly may not be repeated.
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Old 26-12-2016, 17:50
mfr
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Classic FM had some binaural recordings on Christmas Day.
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