You'd think that now Kara has won (and imo can return to near-obscurity) that her fans would be able to quit the childishness of the "Matt and Pamela had 10 seconds more media coverage than Kara" nonsense. Really, it was more than tiresome while the show was on, it's gone beyond that now :yawn:.
One of the best things about Kara & Artem's win....
3 of 4
I didn't claim it was an exhaustive search. After all, that's just about impossible to do via Google, but it was a search on full names (naturally) between the two dates quoted and using pages from the UK only (to limit the hits for the member of the Pennsylvia House of Representatives) plus a quick eyeball of the first couple of pages of hits for all three to ensure that I wasn't picking up any obvious results for somebody of the same name.
As I said, I'm not claiming it's comprehensive and highly accurate, but I think it does give an indication of the level of media coverage for all three finalists.
As I said, I'm not claiming it's comprehensive and highly accurate, but I think it does give an indication of the level of media coverage for all three finalists.
Originally Posted by Muggsy:
“As I said, I'm not claiming it's comprehensive and highly accurate, but I think it does give an indication of the level of media coverage for all three finalists.”
“As I said, I'm not claiming it's comprehensive and highly accurate, but I think it does give an indication of the level of media coverage for all three finalists.”
We'll agree to disagree - after all, I'm doubting that it will affect the result somehow.
Just doing the same search on different news search engines for the same time period as google news isn't always reliable. Different amounts thrown up for each one, due to their searching capacities, but every single time, the amount of 'mentions' is more or less identical for each contestant.
I've also never managed yet to find 1,700 instances of Matt mentions whatever dates/parameters I've put in! And believe me, I'm looking hard as I would love to find something I haven't seen yet!
Anyway, it's all moot. And I'll put in a wild guess that Kartem have had a lot more coverage since the final than Matt has...!
Originally Posted by VWgirl:
“Anyway, it's all moot. And I'll put in a wild guess that Kartem have had a lot more coverage since the final than Matt has...!”
“Anyway, it's all moot. And I'll put in a wild guess that Kartem have had a lot more coverage since the final than Matt has...!
”
Because they won!
Really, though it's hardly been a media storm post-Strictly. It's disappointing that the Beeb don't realise that there is still interest in Strictly - not just the winners - for most of the audience who followed the whole series and some interviews and such after the final would be really lovely.
Originally Posted by VWgirl:
“I would agree that over the course of Strictly, he probably did have more coverage but a lot of that was to do with his day job(s) as well, as the One Show thing blew up in the middle of it, which was hardly his fault.”
“I would agree that over the course of Strictly, he probably did have more coverage but a lot of that was to do with his day job(s) as well, as the One Show thing blew up in the middle of it, which was hardly his fault.”
Who's saying it was his fault?
I think you're reading far more into my posts than was intended.
Originally Posted by Muggsy:
“Who's saying it was his fault? I think you're reading far more into my posts than was intended.”
“Who's saying it was his fault?
I think you're reading far more into my posts than was intended.”
No, I'm not - I didn't think you were saying that at all in fact!
I just made the point that the One Show coverage was hardly 'planned' media exposure on his part, even though a lot of articles were written about it during the Strictly run, and therefore included in the number of overall mentions.
It's a different kind of coverage to "Matt Baker: "Ann and Anton invited me for a threesome on Strictly!""* or whatever which is just put there for Strictly-related publicity purposes.
*That headline never happened, by the way.
Originally Posted by Piggywig:
“You'd think that now Kara has won (and imo can return to near-obscurity) that her fans would be able to quit the childishness of the "Matt and Pamela had 10 seconds more media coverage than Kara" nonsense. Really, it was more than tiresome while the show was on, it's gone beyond that now :yawn:.”
“You'd think that now Kara has won (and imo can return to near-obscurity) that her fans would be able to quit the childishness of the "Matt and Pamela had 10 seconds more media coverage than Kara" nonsense. Really, it was more than tiresome while the show was on, it's gone beyond that now :yawn:.”
Saucer of milk for this poster please
As if any of the contestants were not in "near-obscurity" before the show
Originally Posted by VWgirl:
“It's a different kind of coverage to "Matt Baker: "Ann and Anton invited me for a threesome on Strictly!""* or whatever which is just put there for Strictly-related publicity purposes.
*That headline never happened, by the way.”
“It's a different kind of coverage to "Matt Baker: "Ann and Anton invited me for a threesome on Strictly!""* or whatever which is just put there for Strictly-related publicity purposes.
*That headline never happened, by the way.”
I was getting a bit worried there!!
Originally Posted by Osusana:
“Saucer of milk for this poster please
As if any of the contestants were not in "near-obscurity" before the show”
“Saucer of milk for this poster please
As if any of the contestants were not in "near-obscurity" before the show
”
Of course Kara's fans have posted nothing but love for the other finalists
.And I wouldn't have thought that presenting two prime-time shows (whether you like them or not) as well as lots of other work is "near-obscurity".
Originally Posted by deisegirl:
“I was getting a bit worried there!!”
“I was getting a bit worried there!!
”
Sorry, I was going for the most horrifying mental image I could think of. Initally I had Pamela and James, but then thought "Well actually, James and Matt..." - we've seen them briefly dance together and that was pretty good to look at.
Matt was for ever sending the message that he was the presenter of Countryfile. His first dance established that in the minds of the viewers, and he used it again in his showdance. In between we saw his many filmings for the show.
Kara even felt guilty for winning, due to his work commitments!
Pamela told us her age at every session. She also let us know she was married to BC whenever possible. We also learned of her counselling victims of natural disasters and war.
Kara and Artem fancied the pants off one another, it was plain to see.
All the above is fact. So where does fact end, and exploitation/manipulation/sublimation begin?
I got all the above info from watching the programme, not reading newspapers or Googling.
Not everyone reads a newspaper, or searches the internet, but all potential voters watch the programme.
Kara and Artem won due to their divine dancing, no other reason. The fact that they were so hugely popular with the other dancers carried no weight, as was only apparent at the last.
They won. Put it to bed and get over it.
Kara even felt guilty for winning, due to his work commitments!
Pamela told us her age at every session. She also let us know she was married to BC whenever possible. We also learned of her counselling victims of natural disasters and war.
Kara and Artem fancied the pants off one another, it was plain to see.
All the above is fact. So where does fact end, and exploitation/manipulation/sublimation begin?
I got all the above info from watching the programme, not reading newspapers or Googling.
Not everyone reads a newspaper, or searches the internet, but all potential voters watch the programme.
Kara and Artem won due to their divine dancing, no other reason. The fact that they were so hugely popular with the other dancers carried no weight, as was only apparent at the last.
They won. Put it to bed and get over it.
Originally Posted by Piggywig:
“Of course Kara's fans have posted nothing but love for the other finalists.
And I wouldn't have thought that presenting two prime-time shows (whether you like them or not) as well as lots of other work is "near-obscurity".”
“Of course Kara's fans have posted nothing but love for the other finalists
.And I wouldn't have thought that presenting two prime-time shows (whether you like them or not) as well as lots of other work is "near-obscurity".”
Well I had never heard or seen Matt Baker before this show, not having watched Blue Peter since I was 11 and I don't watch Countryfile either
I HAD heard of and seen all of the others at least, but none of them were exactly in the spotlight before SCD
Originally Posted by Osusana:
“Well I had never heard or seen Matt Baker before this show, not having watched Blue Peter since I was 11 and I don't watch Countryfile either
I HAD heard of and seen all of the others at least, but none of them were exactly in the spotlight before SCD”
“Well I had never heard or seen Matt Baker before this show, not having watched Blue Peter since I was 11 and I don't watch Countryfile either
I HAD heard of and seen all of the others at least, but none of them were exactly in the spotlight before SCD”
I'd heard of him but he wasn't exactly on my radar as I didn't watch Countryfile and am too old for his era of Blue Peter
. However of all of the contestants his star is most definitely in the ascendency (like it or not) and in fact I think he's going to do better out of this than just about any contestant before him. Whether I like Kara or not is immaterial, I just don't think there'll be that much work for her out of this.
Originally Posted by Piggywig:
“You'd think that now Kara has won (and imo can return to near-obscurity) that her fans would be able to quit the childishness of the "Matt and Pamela had 10 seconds more media coverage than Kara" nonsense. Really, it was more than tiresome while the show was on, it's gone beyond that now :yawn:.”
“You'd think that now Kara has won (and imo can return to near-obscurity) that her fans would be able to quit the childishness of the "Matt and Pamela had 10 seconds more media coverage than Kara" nonsense. Really, it was more than tiresome while the show was on, it's gone beyond that now :yawn:.”
Wow! They’re some sour grapes you’re munching on!
Hopefully by the time SCD starts next year you’ll finally have got over Kara’s win and there’ll be another "nice bloke" for you to support. Having said that, there is of course always the chance that like Matt he’ll go far only to fall at the final hurdle to a superior dancer.
Originally Posted by Piggywig:
“I'd heard of him but he wasn't exactly on my radar as I didn't watch Countryfile and am too old for his era of Blue Peter. However of all of the contestants his star is most definitely in the ascendency (like it or not) and in fact I think he's going to do better out of this than just about any contestant before him. Whether I like Kara or not is immaterial, I just don't think there'll be that much work for her out of this.”
“I'd heard of him but he wasn't exactly on my radar as I didn't watch Countryfile and am too old for his era of Blue Peter
. However of all of the contestants his star is most definitely in the ascendency (like it or not) and in fact I think he's going to do better out of this than just about any contestant before him. Whether I like Kara or not is immaterial, I just don't think there'll be that much work for her out of this.”
Well not quite since it seems there may be a fair amount of wishful thinking on your part going on. Past female winners Jill Halfpenny and Alesha Dixon both gained considerably from it and like Jill I could see Kara at the very least being offered roles on the West End stage (eg. Jill did Chicago and Kara could well be offered something similar). In fact given the popularity she achieved and the impact she made, I’d be very surprised if Kara didn’t do well from it.
Originally Posted by Tangerine_82:
“I don't think their romance helped them at all actually. When has it ever helped in the past? Matt & Flavia, Ali & Brian, Joe & Kristina, James & Camilla .. none of those couples went on to win, so it could be said their romancing didn't help them. What made Kara the winner in the eyes of the public was the fact that she was a much better dancer than any of the others. Simple.”
“I don't think their romance helped them at all actually. When has it ever helped in the past? Matt & Flavia, Ali & Brian, Joe & Kristina, James & Camilla .. none of those couples went on to win, so it could be said their romancing didn't help them. What made Kara the winner in the eyes of the public was the fact that she was a much better dancer than any of the others. Simple.”
And being the best dancer didn't make Colin & Erin, or Rachel & Vincent, or Ali & Brian, or Ricky & Natalie win. So perhaps that's not why Kara and Artem won either.
Kara won because she was the best dancer; also, because she had a very nice appealing understated personality. She benefited from great choreography from Artem. As far as the romance is concerned, Kara and Artem both played it down, and made it clear nothing would happen until the show was over. The final itself for them was perhaps the worst night they ever had, with the showdance going wrong and Kara getting injured. She might have benefited from people voting because they appreciated her bravery in continuing to complete her dances despite a painful injury. For her to win despite a sub-par final demonstrates that people voted for her remembering her performances throughout the series, where her semi-final was outstanding. Strangely, for once, with the final two, Kara and Matt, the judges seemed to overmark Kara in the second part of the final after she had been injured, and gave her a lot of praise, with less praise for Matt. This appeared to be a heavy hint to the audience to vote for her.
You add all these factors together and you can understand why she won. A lot of Kara supporters voted extra heavily for her because they were afraid she might lose.
Matt, in total, did not have so much going for him.
The romance would seem to be a negligible insignificant factor and could not have won it for her on its own.
You add all these factors together and you can understand why she won. A lot of Kara supporters voted extra heavily for her because they were afraid she might lose.
Matt, in total, did not have so much going for him.
The romance would seem to be a negligible insignificant factor and could not have won it for her on its own.
Originally Posted by petertard:
“Kara won because she was the best dancer; also, because she had a very nice appealing understated personality. She benefited from great choreography from Artem. As far as the romance is concerned, Kara and Artem both played it down, and made it clear nothing would happen until the show was over. The final itself for them was perhaps the worst night they ever had, with the showdance going wrong and Kara getting injured. She might have benefited from people voting because they appreciated her bravery in continuing to complete her dances despite a painful injury. For her to win despite a sub-par final demonstrates that people voted for her remembering her performances throughout the series, where her semi-final was outstanding. Strangely, for once, with the final two, Kara and Matt, the judges seemed to overmark Kara in the second part of the final after she had been injured, and gave her a lot of praise, with less praise for Matt. This appeared to be a heavy hint to the audience to vote for her.
You add all these factors together and you can understand why she won. A lot of Kara supporters voted extra heavily for her because they were afraid she might lose.
Matt, in total, did not have so much going for him.
The romance would seem to be a negligible insignificant factor and could not have won it for her on its own.”
“Kara won because she was the best dancer; also, because she had a very nice appealing understated personality. She benefited from great choreography from Artem. As far as the romance is concerned, Kara and Artem both played it down, and made it clear nothing would happen until the show was over. The final itself for them was perhaps the worst night they ever had, with the showdance going wrong and Kara getting injured. She might have benefited from people voting because they appreciated her bravery in continuing to complete her dances despite a painful injury. For her to win despite a sub-par final demonstrates that people voted for her remembering her performances throughout the series, where her semi-final was outstanding. Strangely, for once, with the final two, Kara and Matt, the judges seemed to overmark Kara in the second part of the final after she had been injured, and gave her a lot of praise, with less praise for Matt. This appeared to be a heavy hint to the audience to vote for her.
You add all these factors together and you can understand why she won. A lot of Kara supporters voted extra heavily for her because they were afraid she might lose.
Matt, in total, did not have so much going for him.
The romance would seem to be a negligible insignificant factor and could not have won it for her on its own.”
well said
Originally Posted by blackberry000:
“And being the best dancer didn't make Colin & Erin, or Rachel & Vincent, or Ali & Brian, or Ricky & Natalie win. So perhaps that's not why Kara and Artem won either.”
“And being the best dancer didn't make Colin & Erin, or Rachel & Vincent, or Ali & Brian, or Ricky & Natalie win. So perhaps that's not why Kara and Artem won either.”
True, but then they were all beaten by inferior male dancers. There is no female Darren Gough or Chris Hollins and the particular voting demographic of SCD makes it unlikely IMO there will ever be one. All the female winners (Natasha, Jill, Alesha and Kara) have generally been considered to be the best dancer in their respective series and I think that‘s the major reason why each of them won. .
That’s not to say that’s the only reason they won as I think a high likeability factor also played it’s part for them. For example it does seem that viewers were able to warm to the personalities of Alesha and Kara in the sort of numbers they didn’t do with Rachel.
Originally Posted by petertard:
“Kara won because she was the best dancer; also, because she had a very nice appealing understated personality. She benefited from great choreography from Artem. As far as the romance is concerned, Kara and Artem both played it down, and made it clear nothing would happen until the show was over. The final itself for them was perhaps the worst night they ever had, with the showdance going wrong and Kara getting injured. She might have benefited from people voting because they appreciated her bravery in continuing to complete her dances despite a painful injury. For her to win despite a sub-par final demonstrates that people voted for her remembering her performances throughout the series, where her semi-final was outstanding. Strangely, for once, with the final two, Kara and Matt, the judges seemed to overmark Kara in the second part of the final after she had been injured, and gave her a lot of praise, with less praise for Matt. This appeared to be a heavy hint to the audience to vote for her.
You add all these factors together and you can understand why she won. A lot of Kara supporters voted extra heavily for her because they were afraid she might lose.
Matt, in total, did not have so much going for him.
The romance would seem to be a negligible insignificant factor and could not have won it for her on its own.”
“Kara won because she was the best dancer; also, because she had a very nice appealing understated personality. She benefited from great choreography from Artem. As far as the romance is concerned, Kara and Artem both played it down, and made it clear nothing would happen until the show was over. The final itself for them was perhaps the worst night they ever had, with the showdance going wrong and Kara getting injured. She might have benefited from people voting because they appreciated her bravery in continuing to complete her dances despite a painful injury. For her to win despite a sub-par final demonstrates that people voted for her remembering her performances throughout the series, where her semi-final was outstanding. Strangely, for once, with the final two, Kara and Matt, the judges seemed to overmark Kara in the second part of the final after she had been injured, and gave her a lot of praise, with less praise for Matt. This appeared to be a heavy hint to the audience to vote for her.
You add all these factors together and you can understand why she won. A lot of Kara supporters voted extra heavily for her because they were afraid she might lose.
Matt, in total, did not have so much going for him.
The romance would seem to be a negligible insignificant factor and could not have won it for her on its own.”
Yes, I think the bits highlighted are the major reasons why she won.
Originally Posted by nagel84:
“Wow! They’re some sour grapes you’re munching on!
Hopefully by the time SCD starts next year you’ll finally have got over Kara’s win and there’ll be another "nice bloke" for you to support. Having said that, there is of course always the chance that like Matt he’ll go far only to fall at the final hurdle to a superior dancer.
Well not quite since it seems there may be a fair amount of wishful thinking on your part going on. Past female winners Jill Halfpenny and Alesha Dixon both gained considerably from it and like Jill I could see Kara at the very least being offered roles on the West End stage (eg. Jill did Chicago and Kara could well be offered something similar). In fact given the popularity she achieved and the impact she made, I’d be very surprised if Kara didn’t do well from it.”
“Wow! They’re some sour grapes you’re munching on!
Hopefully by the time SCD starts next year you’ll finally have got over Kara’s win and there’ll be another "nice bloke" for you to support. Having said that, there is of course always the chance that like Matt he’ll go far only to fall at the final hurdle to a superior dancer.
Well not quite since it seems there may be a fair amount of wishful thinking on your part going on. Past female winners Jill Halfpenny and Alesha Dixon both gained considerably from it and like Jill I could see Kara at the very least being offered roles on the West End stage (eg. Jill did Chicago and Kara could well be offered something similar). In fact given the popularity she achieved and the impact she made, I’d be very surprised if Kara didn’t do well from it.”
No sour grapes at all, I couldn't care less really (why does it have to be sour grapes just because someone sticks their head above the parapet and says that Kara and Artem did bugger all for them
). I think Matt will do better from having not won SCD anyway. None of the finalists really get much of a moment in the spotlight after the results are announced anyway. Matt is only the second person I've supported in any way through SCD and I've watched each series from the start - there may be a "nice bloke" next series, maybe not. Maybe I'll turn and support a "nice lady"
. Besides which, I'm sure most of Kara's fans were supporting her because wasn't Artem such a "nice bloke". As for the last part of your post, I'd happily stick a fiver on Kara not following in Jill or Alesha's footsteps, but there you go, that's just my opinion, you know, those things we air on here, don't flame me for it. No-one can deny she wasn't a great dancer, but if she hadn't had the romance with Artem going on (and you can't deny it wasn't the BIG thing with them) then I wonder if she would have got as far. Of course Kara and Artem fans are going to shriek about how that wasn't the case. So what.
Matt (and Pamela) came in for inordinate amounts of stick on this forum, mainly from Kara fans who don't seem to like it when the tables are turned. Why shouldn't I stick up for him?
Of the many factors contributing to Kara's win, the romance would appear to be the least significant because they made it clear it was on hold until after the show was over; that is, it was on the back-burner for the duration of the show. In other words, Kara and Artem themselves did not exploit it for any gain in the voting. What the producers said or did, or the presenters, is a different matter. There's no way she would have been able to win with a romance, active or passive, if she was not a very talented dancer, and did not have great choreography. The chemistry between them as dancers was much more significant than the romance.
Originally Posted by Piggywig:
“No sour grapes at all, I couldn't care less really (why does it have to be sour grapes just because someone sticks their head above the parapet and says that Kara and Artem did bugger all for them). I think Matt will do better from having not won SCD anyway. None of the finalists really get much of a moment in the spotlight after the results are announced anyway.
Matt is only the second person I've supported in any way through SCD and I've watched each series from the start - there may be a "nice bloke" next series, maybe not. Maybe I'll turn and support a "nice lady". Besides which, I'm sure most of Kara's fans were supporting her because wasn't Artem such a "nice bloke".
As for the last part of your post, I'd happily stick a fiver on Kara not following in Jill or Alesha's footsteps, but there you go, that's just my opinion, you know, those things we air on here, don't flame me for it. No-one can deny she wasn't a great dancer, but if she hadn't had the romance with Artem going on (and you can't deny it wasn't the BIG thing with them) then I wonder if she would have got as far. Of course Kara and Artem fans are going to shriek about how that wasn't the case. So what.
Matt (and Pamela) came in for inordinate amounts of stick on this forum, mainly from Kara fans who don't seem to like it when the tables are turned. Why shouldn't I stick up for him?”
“No sour grapes at all, I couldn't care less really (why does it have to be sour grapes just because someone sticks their head above the parapet and says that Kara and Artem did bugger all for them
). I think Matt will do better from having not won SCD anyway. None of the finalists really get much of a moment in the spotlight after the results are announced anyway. Matt is only the second person I've supported in any way through SCD and I've watched each series from the start - there may be a "nice bloke" next series, maybe not. Maybe I'll turn and support a "nice lady"
. Besides which, I'm sure most of Kara's fans were supporting her because wasn't Artem such a "nice bloke". As for the last part of your post, I'd happily stick a fiver on Kara not following in Jill or Alesha's footsteps, but there you go, that's just my opinion, you know, those things we air on here, don't flame me for it. No-one can deny she wasn't a great dancer, but if she hadn't had the romance with Artem going on (and you can't deny it wasn't the BIG thing with them) then I wonder if she would have got as far. Of course Kara and Artem fans are going to shriek about how that wasn't the case. So what.
Matt (and Pamela) came in for inordinate amounts of stick on this forum, mainly from Kara fans who don't seem to like it when the tables are turned. Why shouldn't I stick up for him?”
I can deny it, not that you will ever believe it. I, and I would suggest most Kara supporters, voted for her because she was simply the best dancer. Personally I also liked her straightforward personality. Her 'romance' with Artem was not a factor, at all and why would it be? I always prefer the best dancers and have never voted for someone because they are having a 'showmance', nor because I 'fancied them'.
The romance theory, applied to Matt would imply that if he was not married, and was free to romance Aliona, he would have won, rather than Kara, and that his win in such a circumstance would be due to a romance rather than his ability as a dancer, or the quality of Aliona's choreography.
Originally Posted by petertard:
“Of the many factors contributing to Kara's win, the romance would appear to be the least significant because they made it clear it was on hold until after the show was over; that is, it was on the back-burner for the duration of the show. In other words, Kara and Artem themselves did not exploit it for any gain in the voting. What the producers said or did, or the presenters, is a different matter. There's no way she would have been able to win with a romance, active or passive, if she was not a very talented dancer, and did not have great choreography. The chemistry between them as dancers was much more significant than the romance.”
“Of the many factors contributing to Kara's win, the romance would appear to be the least significant because they made it clear it was on hold until after the show was over; that is, it was on the back-burner for the duration of the show. In other words, Kara and Artem themselves did not exploit it for any gain in the voting. What the producers said or did, or the presenters, is a different matter. There's no way she would have been able to win with a romance, active or passive, if she was not a very talented dancer, and did not have great choreography. The chemistry between them as dancers was much more significant than the romance.”
That's as may be, but Matt wasn't afforded the same attitude (I don't mean directly at you) by fans of other dancers over stuff like how desperate he was for a 10
, or how overworked he was , or the VT that showed him running off in a huff after his Salsa , or the VT that showed him saying how close him and Aliona were but the footage tried to show them falling out ; none of which was the case, it was the way the producers and Tess skewed things to show him in a different light. Which may or may not be the case with Kara and Artem, but I guess if we're claiming that for one couple, we could claim it for them all.
Originally Posted by fjif:
“I can deny it, not that you will ever believe it. I, and I would suggest most Kara supporters, voted for her because she was simply the best dancer. Personally I also liked her straightforward personality. Her 'romance' with Artem was not a factor, at all and why would it be? I always prefer the best dancers and have never voted for someone because they are having a 'showmance', nor because I 'fancied them'.”
“I can deny it, not that you will ever believe it. I, and I would suggest most Kara supporters, voted for her because she was simply the best dancer. Personally I also liked her straightforward personality. Her 'romance' with Artem was not a factor, at all and why would it be? I always prefer the best dancers and have never voted for someone because they are having a 'showmance', nor because I 'fancied them'.”
Okay, but evidence the Tesspit, with questions for Kara and Artem (rightly or wrongly) going along the lines of "ohhh, what's happening with your romance, are you going on a date, etc.." the inference that Blackpool was a "romantic weekend" for them etc.... and then contrast that with Matt constantly being asked "how much do want a 10, wouldn't you love a 10, wouldn't you love to win, how much do you want to win?" ad nauseum. Which one of those lines of questioning is the "floating voter" going to respond to more favourably?
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