3rd Generation licences

James D · 20-04-2000, 10:44

Only 6 companies left in the bidding now! I notice BT3G have been bidding for nearly all (except A obviously) of the licences. Vodafone seem to really want licence B!

Evil Chris · 20-04-2000, 19:47

I suspect BT and ntl are playing the same card. They are bidding (and driving up the prices of) the smaller licenses but will both probably bid for B and A respectively later on. My prediction is A goes to ntl, B to Vodafone, and BT, One2One and Orange get the others.

James D · 05-05-2000, 17:42

Chris your prediction was quite acurate.

Licence A - TIW

Licence B - Vodafone

Licence C - BT3G

Licence D - Orange

Licence E - One2One

Evil Chris · 05-05-2000, 19:31

ntl leaving was probably caused primarily by France Telecom than anything else. They plan to bid for Orange, and so perhaps thought that was better value than funding ntl further.

ntl now plan to offer a 'virtual' mobile service similar to Virgin...probably over the Vodafone or Orange networks.

Bob A · 05-05-2000, 19:34

BT3Gs aim was to make Vodaphone pay thro the nose, seemed to work nearly £2 billion more

[This message has been edited by Bob A (edited 05 May 2000).]

Bob A · 12-05-2000, 21:19

BT won in court today enabling them to go to the High court to seek a judical review with regard Vodaphone and Orange having 180 days to pay for the licence. This saves them around £2 million pounds a day.

looks like the auction wasn't fair after all

simplyjonathan · 07-12-2012, 19:17

Reading through this thread makes me think why was it 12 years ago, we were able to do thing better than what we can now? From the looks of things, the whole thing of getting 3G networks up and running in the UK went 10,000 times better than the delayed time and time again process of getting 4G networks up and running in the UK!

Now, I know that at the time of when 3G was launched in the UK, we had a much better communications regulators than what we have got now, which leads me to ask the following questions:

If Ofcom had already existed during the process of getting 3G networks up and running in the UK, knowing how Ofcom seem to mess lots of things up, would 3G networks in the UK have ended up being launched in say 2007 or 2008 instead of 2003?

If Ofcom never existed, would we have got 4G networks in the UK a lot, lot earlier than 2012? I remember reading somewhere that the UK was originally going to be getting 4G networks as early as 2008!

Then Ofcom did something to screw things up and severely delay the process!

Also, how likely is it that Ofcom will screw up the process of launching 5G networks in the UK, once 5G becomes available?

Daveoc64 · 07-12-2012, 19:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplyjonathan

Reading through this thread makes me think why was it 12 years ago, we were able to do thing better than what we can now? From the looks of things, the whole thing of getting 3G networks up and running in the UK went 10,000 times better than the delayed time and time again process of getting 4G networks up and running in the UK!

That's not how most people think of it.

Our 3G auction was subject to analysis around the world and many countries invested in research to prevent the problems that arose from it.

There were also a lot of critics from places like these forums.

simplyjonathan · 07-12-2012, 19:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

That's not how most people think of it.

Our 3G auction was subject to analysis around the world and many countries invested in research to prevent the problems that arose from it.

There were also a lot of critics from places like these forums.

I can't find any reliable information anywhere about it, but were 3G networks launched in the UK late or on time?

ajh94 · 07-12-2012, 19:30

Lol reviving a thread from the year 2000... Really :P

simplyjonathan · 07-12-2012, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajh94

Lol reviving a thread from the year 2000... Really :P

Yeah, it's cool isn't it?

And just think, there wasn't as much squabbling on DS back then as what there is now!

Daveoc64 · 07-12-2012, 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplyjonathan

I can't find any reliable information anywhere about it, but were 3G networks launched in the UK late or on time?

Timeliness is not the only measure of success.

The licenses were vastly overvalued, so that further down the line, the government and the networks lost money.

There were also concerns about competition (as there are now). You'll notice this thread mentions court action taken by BT.

simplyjonathan · 07-12-2012, 19:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

Timeliness is not the only measure of success.

The licenses were vastly overvalued, so that further down the line, the government and the networks lost money.

There were also concerns about competition (as there are now). You'll notice this thread mentions court action taken by BT.

If there had been a recession on back then, would that have caused problems with setting up 3G in the UK as well?

Thine Wonk · 07-12-2012, 19:41

You have to also remember that 3G was completely new, data wasn't really possible before. We only really had WAP, where as with 4G it's just faster than what we have now and more capacity.

Still not sure I agree with bumping 12 1/2 year old threads though, OP should have started a new one really.

simplyjonathan · 07-12-2012, 19:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

You have to also remember that 3G was completely new, data wasn't really possible before. We only really had WAP, where as with 4G it's just faster than what we have now and more capacity.

Still not sure I agree with bumping 12 year old threads though, OP should have started a new one really.

I bet that when we first got 3G, there wasn't really a lot of ways in which it could be used to it's full potential, unlike now with 4G, where we can utilize it to it's full potential by doing bandwidth hungry things like streaming HD video!

Daveoc64 · 07-12-2012, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplyjonathan

If there had been a recession on back then, would that have caused problems with setting up 3G in the UK as well?

I don't think there's any real link between the auction and the state of the economy.

simplyjonathan · 07-12-2012, 19:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

I don't think there's any real link between the auction and the state of the economy.

Why not?

I thought that the state of the economy played a big role in terms of the auctions of 3G and now 4G?

Thine Wonk · 07-12-2012, 19:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplyjonathan

I bet that when we first got 3G, there wasn't really a lot of ways in which it could be used to it's full potential, unlike now with 4G, where we can utilize it to it's full potential by doing bandwidth hungry things like streaming HD video!

There was!, the networks realised the value of it. Some of them thought video calling was going to be massive, but it turned out not to be!

simplyjonathan · 07-12-2012, 19:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

There was!, the networks realised the value of it. Some of them thought video calling was going to be massive, but it turned out not to be!

I think that video calling is far more suited to 4G networks, simply due to the extra bandwidth being available, and the potential for it to be in HD as well!

Daveoc64 · 07-12-2012, 19:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplyjonathan

Why not?

I thought that the state of the economy played a big role in terms of the auctions of 3G and now 4G?

At a time when the government is desperate for cash (i,e, now), they've let the auction process stutter along at a snail's pace.

Of course, you could say that the networks and their customers are willing to pay less for a new licence in hard times.

The economy was much better off in 2000 than it is now, and they had a faster auction.

The economy seems to have either no effect or the exact opposite of what you might think.

simplyjonathan · 07-12-2012, 20:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveoc64

At a time when the government is desperate for cash (i,e, now), they've let the auction process stutter along at a snail's pace.

Of course, you could say that the networks and their customers are willing to pay less for a new licence in hard times.

The economy was much better off in 2000 than it is now, and they had a faster auction.

The economy seems to have either no effect or the exact opposite of what you might think.

I hope that the 5G auction process in many years time will go the same pace as what the 3G auction process went! How likely is that? I am sincerely hoping that Ofcom will have learned a very valuable lesson from this whole 4G business and not make the same mistakes when it comes to introducing 5G!

Thine Wonk · 07-12-2012, 20:24

Remember the auction was meant to be in '09, we should all have had 4G for a couple of years by now like the USA, but legal disputes delayed it until 2013.

simplyjonathan · 07-12-2012, 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thine Wonk

Remember the auction was meant to be in '09, we should all have had 4G for a couple of years by now like the USA, but legal disputes delayed it until 2013.

Thank god for Everything Everywhere then!

moox · 07-12-2012, 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by simplyjonathan

I think that video calling is far more suited to 4G networks, simply due to the extra bandwidth being available, and the potential for it to be in HD as well!

Nothing technically wrong with how video calling is implemented on 3G. The problems were probably that it was a bit gimmicky (I don't really know anyone who uses FaceTime or Skype video on their mobile a lot), and worst of all, that the networks thought people would pay 50p/min for the privilege. Obviously any sane person wouldn't consider it.

simplyjonathan · 07-12-2012, 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by moox

Nothing technically wrong with how video calling is implemented on 3G. The problems were probably that it was a bit gimmicky (I don't really know anyone who uses FaceTime or Skype video on their mobile a lot), and worst of all, that the networks thought people would pay 50p/min for the privilege. Obviously any sane person wouldn't consider it.

My brother quite often uses Skype video on his mobile phone!

20-04-2000, 10:44	#1
James D Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,167	Only 6 companies left in the bidding now! I notice BT3G have been bidding for nearly all (except A obviously) of the licences. Vodafone seem to really want licence B!

20-04-2000, 19:47	#2
Evil Chris Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: London Posts: 785	I suspect BT and ntl are playing the same card. They are bidding (and driving up the prices of) the smaller licenses but will both probably bid for B and A respectively later on. My prediction is A goes to ntl, B to Vodafone, and BT, One2One and Orange get the others.

05-05-2000, 17:42	#3
James D Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Posts: 1,167	Chris your prediction was quite acurate. Licence A - TIW Licence B - Vodafone Licence C - BT3G Licence D - Orange Licence E - One2One

05-05-2000, 19:31	#4
Evil Chris Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: London Posts: 785	ntl leaving was probably caused primarily by France Telecom than anything else. They plan to bid for Orange, and so perhaps thought that was better value than funding ntl further. ntl now plan to offer a 'virtual' mobile service similar to Virgin...probably over the Vodafone or Orange networks.

05-05-2000, 19:34	#5
Bob A Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 626	BT3Gs aim was to make Vodaphone pay thro the nose, seemed to work nearly £2 billion more [This message has been edited by Bob A (edited 05 May 2000).]

12-05-2000, 21:19	#6
Bob A Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2000 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 626	BT won in court today enabling them to go to the High court to seek a judical review with regard Vodaphone and Orange having 180 days to pay for the licence. This saves them around £2 million pounds a day. looks like the auction wasn't fair after all

07-12-2012, 19:17	#7
simplyjonathan Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	Reading through this thread makes me think why was it 12 years ago, we were able to do thing better than what we can now? From the looks of things, the whole thing of getting 3G networks up and running in the UK went 10,000 times better than the delayed time and time again process of getting 4G networks up and running in the UK! Now, I know that at the time of when 3G was launched in the UK, we had a much better communications regulators than what we have got now, which leads me to ask the following questions: If Ofcom had already existed during the process of getting 3G networks up and running in the UK, knowing how Ofcom seem to mess lots of things up, would 3G networks in the UK have ended up being launched in say 2007 or 2008 instead of 2003? If Ofcom never existed, would we have got 4G networks in the UK a lot, lot earlier than 2012? I remember reading somewhere that the UK was originally going to be getting 4G networks as early as 2008! Then Ofcom did something to screw things up and severely delay the process! Also, how likely is it that Ofcom will screw up the process of launching 5G networks in the UK, once 5G becomes available?

07-12-2012, 19:24	#8
Daveoc64 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol (BBC1 West) Posts: 15,143	Quote: Originally Posted by simplyjonathan Reading through this thread makes me think why was it 12 years ago, we were able to do thing better than what we can now? From the looks of things, the whole thing of getting 3G networks up and running in the UK went 10,000 times better than the delayed time and time again process of getting 4G networks up and running in the UK! That's not how most people think of it. Our 3G auction was subject to analysis around the world and many countries invested in research to prevent the problems that arose from it. There were also a lot of critics from places like these forums.

07-12-2012, 19:28	#9
simplyjonathan Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	Quote: Originally Posted by Daveoc64 That's not how most people think of it. Our 3G auction was subject to analysis around the world and many countries invested in research to prevent the problems that arose from it. There were also a lot of critics from places like these forums. I can't find any reliable information anywhere about it, but were 3G networks launched in the UK late or on time?

07-12-2012, 19:30	#10
ajh94 Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: London & Essex Posts: 987	Lol reviving a thread from the year 2000... Really :P

07-12-2012, 19:33	#11
simplyjonathan Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	Quote: Originally Posted by ajh94 Lol reviving a thread from the year 2000... Really :P Yeah, it's cool isn't it? And just think, there wasn't as much squabbling on DS back then as what there is now!

07-12-2012, 19:38	#13
simplyjonathan Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	Quote: Originally Posted by Daveoc64 Timeliness is not the only measure of success. The licenses were vastly overvalued, so that further down the line, the government and the networks lost money. There were also concerns about competition (as there are now). You'll notice this thread mentions court action taken by BT. If there had been a recession on back then, would that have caused problems with setting up 3G in the UK as well?

07-12-2012, 19:41	#14
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	You have to also remember that 3G was completely new, data wasn't really possible before. We only really had WAP, where as with 4G it's just faster than what we have now and more capacity. Still not sure I agree with bumping 12 1/2 year old threads though, OP should have started a new one really.

07-12-2012, 19:44	#15
simplyjonathan Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk You have to also remember that 3G was completely new, data wasn't really possible before. We only really had WAP, where as with 4G it's just faster than what we have now and more capacity. Still not sure I agree with bumping 12 year old threads though, OP should have started a new one really. I bet that when we first got 3G, there wasn't really a lot of ways in which it could be used to it's full potential, unlike now with 4G, where we can utilize it to it's full potential by doing bandwidth hungry things like streaming HD video!

07-12-2012, 19:45	#16
Daveoc64 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol (BBC1 West) Posts: 15,143	Quote: Originally Posted by simplyjonathan If there had been a recession on back then, would that have caused problems with setting up 3G in the UK as well? I don't think there's any real link between the auction and the state of the economy.

07-12-2012, 19:49	#17
simplyjonathan Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	Quote: Originally Posted by Daveoc64 I don't think there's any real link between the auction and the state of the economy. Why not? I thought that the state of the economy played a big role in terms of the auctions of 3G and now 4G?

07-12-2012, 19:54	#18
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Quote: Originally Posted by simplyjonathan I bet that when we first got 3G, there wasn't really a lot of ways in which it could be used to it's full potential, unlike now with 4G, where we can utilize it to it's full potential by doing bandwidth hungry things like streaming HD video! There was!, the networks realised the value of it. Some of them thought video calling was going to be massive, but it turned out not to be!

07-12-2012, 19:55	#19
simplyjonathan Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk There was!, the networks realised the value of it. Some of them thought video calling was going to be massive, but it turned out not to be! I think that video calling is far more suited to 4G networks, simply due to the extra bandwidth being available, and the potential for it to be in HD as well!

07-12-2012, 19:57	#20
Daveoc64 Forum Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Bristol (BBC1 West) Posts: 15,143	Quote: Originally Posted by simplyjonathan Why not? I thought that the state of the economy played a big role in terms of the auctions of 3G and now 4G? At a time when the government is desperate for cash (i,e, now), they've let the auction process stutter along at a snail's pace. Of course, you could say that the networks and their customers are willing to pay less for a new licence in hard times. The economy was much better off in 2000 than it is now, and they had a faster auction. The economy seems to have either no effect or the exact opposite of what you might think.

07-12-2012, 20:02	#21
simplyjonathan Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	Quote: Originally Posted by Daveoc64 At a time when the government is desperate for cash (i,e, now), they've let the auction process stutter along at a snail's pace. Of course, you could say that the networks and their customers are willing to pay less for a new licence in hard times. The economy was much better off in 2000 than it is now, and they had a faster auction. The economy seems to have either no effect or the exact opposite of what you might think. I hope that the 5G auction process in many years time will go the same pace as what the 3G auction process went! How likely is that? I am sincerely hoping that Ofcom will have learned a very valuable lesson from this whole 4G business and not make the same mistakes when it comes to introducing 5G!

DS Forums

3rd Generation licences

07-12-2012, 20:24	#22
Thine Wonk Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 14,577	Remember the auction was meant to be in '09, we should all have had 4G for a couple of years by now like the USA, but legal disputes delayed it until 2013.

07-12-2012, 20:29	#23
simplyjonathan Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	Quote: Originally Posted by Thine Wonk Remember the auction was meant to be in '09, we should all have had 4G for a couple of years by now like the USA, but legal disputes delayed it until 2013. Thank god for Everything Everywhere then!

07-12-2012, 20:39	#24
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by simplyjonathan I think that video calling is far more suited to 4G networks, simply due to the extra bandwidth being available, and the potential for it to be in HD as well! Nothing technically wrong with how video calling is implemented on 3G. The problems were probably that it was a bit gimmicky (I don't really know anyone who uses FaceTime or Skype video on their mobile a lot), and worst of all, that the networks thought people would pay 50p/min for the privilege. Obviously any sane person wouldn't consider it.

07-12-2012, 20:41	#25
simplyjonathan Inactive Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 30	Quote: Originally Posted by moox Nothing technically wrong with how video calling is implemented on 3G. The problems were probably that it was a bit gimmicky (I don't really know anyone who uses FaceTime or Skype video on their mobile a lot), and worst of all, that the networks thought people would pay 50p/min for the privilege. Obviously any sane person wouldn't consider it. My brother quite often uses Skype video on his mobile phone!