OFCOM hand mobile broadband advantage to Vodafone and O2

legends wear 7 · 07-01-2011, 10:27

By allowing networks to use their 2G spectrum vodafone and O2 have been given a big advantage right?

Vodafone 900mhz
O2 900mhz
Everything Everywhere 1800mhz
Three stuck on 2100mhz

Top two networks will now have a wider signal umbrella and better in building coverage for data services

flagpole · 07-01-2011, 11:19

there's an interesting article about this on the reg
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11...rum_refarming/

legends wear 7 · 07-01-2011, 11:30

Can see 3 being quite upset

wavejockglw · 07-01-2011, 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by legends wear 7

Can see 3 being quite upset

It was already reported in the Sunday Times that 3 may quit the UK if they did not get some allocation of 900Mhz spectrum.

More here: http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/10...nvestment.aspx

Everything Everywhere has given up some 1800Mhz bandwidth to meet approval for merger so that could be given to 3 but it's nowhere near as robust as sub 1000Mhz.

It's not very likely that any of the mobile ops will use 900 or 1800Mhz for UMTS services soon as it would mean clearing lots of folks off GSM so they will proably wait until new spectrum freed up by the digital TV switchover is auctioned later this year. it is this new spectrum that Everything Everywhere and 3, who have no sub 1000Mhz spectrum curently want balanced in the auction process. Perhaps existing providers who have 90Mhz may be capped on what spectrum and bandwidth they can bid for.

legends wear 7 · 07-01-2011, 11:51

I would suggest the statement on vodafone website shows an intent to do it....they and O2 have a clear competitive advantage to do so

wavejockglw · 07-01-2011, 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by legends wear 7

I would suggest the statement on vodafone website shows an intent to do it....they and O2 have a clear competitive advantage to do so

I'm sure they wil do it but not until they have cleared 900MHz of GSM users and that will cost them as they will have to replace handsets to millions of users. More likely they will wait and see what happens with the auction and take it from there.

So probably no UMTS900 until at least 2013/4.

legends wear 7 · 07-01-2011, 12:33

I don't really get your point....GSM900 and UMTS900 can co-exist.

Quotes here would lead me to believe Vodafone and O2 are going to be going UMTS900 pretty soon.

http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/2011/...rum-refarming/

Quote:

Vodafone chief executive Guy Laurence who was the first to welcome the changes: “ We welcome this change to our spectrum licence. It will bring significant benefits to our customers in the form of faster and better mobile broadband with wider rural coverage and stronger in-building signal,” he said.
A spokesperson for O2 meanwhile said the announcement meant it could begin the rollout of its 3G service on the 900mHz spectrum.
“We welcome the conclusion of Ofcom’s licensing procedure and can now begin the process for deploying UMTS900,”

wavejockglw · 07-01-2011, 15:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by legends wear 7

I don't really get your point....GSM900 and UMTS900 can co-exist.

Quotes here would lead me to believe Vodafone and O2 are going to be going UMTS900 pretty soon.

According to the analysis by the Register (quoted above) it's not likely that any UMTS900 will happen soon at all. Every basestation requires updating and needs visited and there are 1000s of them.

I can now see that both GSM & UMTS can coexist on the same spectrum but Vodafone and 02 (who both now share transmission sites) will only resort to upgrading where they have 3G capacity issues. They might implement some UMTS900 in rural areas for additonal coverage but I would not expect any significant investment soon as they will be keeping their options open for the 800Mhz spectrum where they can deploy LTE which is vastly more efficient for data services.

flagpole · 07-01-2011, 15:33

if i were 3 i'd be asking for a rebate on that very expensive 3G licence i bought.

moox · 07-01-2011, 15:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by flagpole

if i were 3 i'd be asking for a rebate on that very expensive 3G licence i bought.

It does seem like a bit of a swizz - they've bought an expensive licence, spent millions building a network based upon that licence (and unlike the 2G networks they don't have a 2G network to fall upon in rural areas, without expensive roaming), and now are going to be undermined by its competitors being able to use their existing licences to improve coverage more cheaply.

At least when all the networks had to use 2.1GHz it was a level playing field (apart from 3's lack of a 2G network).

legends wear 7 · 07-01-2011, 17:17

If you rebate one you have to rebate all. The asset vodafone spent 6bn on is no longer worth anywhere near that

TheBigM · 07-01-2011, 18:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by legends wear 7

If you rebate one you have to rebate all. The asset vodafone spent 6bn on is no longer worth anywhere near that

No, the point is that before, buying the license was the only way of providing 3G services. Now OfCom have effectively given O2 and Vodafone "free" 3G licenses on other spectrum.

I think keeping 3 viable is of great public/consumer interest.

They have shown themselves to be among the most innovative of the network in addition to normal competition benefits. They brought down the cost of voice minutes, they did the free calls on european 3 networks, they're doing "all-you-can-eat" data.

Even if you're not with them, the effect they have on spurring other networks into better deals for consumers is only a good thing.

legends wear 7 · 07-01-2011, 18:20

The only way you could do a rebate would be due to devaluation of the asset...as every networks asset has been devalued you would have to rebate them all.

Look at it like this, if these rules were in place in 2000 vodafone could have saved 6bn and spent money on network providing 3G services to the whole country years ago....same goes for the others.

07-01-2011, 10:27	#1
legends wear 7 Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,070	OFCOM hand mobile broadband advantage to Vodafone and O2 By allowing networks to use their 2G spectrum vodafone and O2 have been given a big advantage right? Vodafone 900mhz O2 900mhz Everything Everywhere 1800mhz Three stuck on 2100mhz Top two networks will now have a wider signal umbrella and better in building coverage for data services

07-01-2011, 11:19	#2
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	there's an interesting article about this on the reg http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/11...rum_refarming/

07-01-2011, 11:30	#3
legends wear 7 Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,070	Can see 3 being quite upset

07-01-2011, 11:44	#4
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	Quote: Originally Posted by legends wear 7 Can see 3 being quite upset It was already reported in the Sunday Times that 3 may quit the UK if they did not get some allocation of 900Mhz spectrum. More here: http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/News/10...nvestment.aspx Everything Everywhere has given up some 1800Mhz bandwidth to meet approval for merger so that could be given to 3 but it's nowhere near as robust as sub 1000Mhz. It's not very likely that any of the mobile ops will use 900 or 1800Mhz for UMTS services soon as it would mean clearing lots of folks off GSM so they will proably wait until new spectrum freed up by the digital TV switchover is auctioned later this year. it is this new spectrum that Everything Everywhere and 3, who have no sub 1000Mhz spectrum curently want balanced in the auction process. Perhaps existing providers who have 90Mhz may be capped on what spectrum and bandwidth they can bid for.

07-01-2011, 11:51	#5
legends wear 7 Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,070	I would suggest the statement on vodafone website shows an intent to do it....they and O2 have a clear competitive advantage to do so

07-01-2011, 11:56	#6
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	Quote: Originally Posted by legends wear 7 I would suggest the statement on vodafone website shows an intent to do it....they and O2 have a clear competitive advantage to do so I'm sure they wil do it but not until they have cleared 900MHz of GSM users and that will cost them as they will have to replace handsets to millions of users. More likely they will wait and see what happens with the auction and take it from there. So probably no UMTS900 until at least 2013/4.

07-01-2011, 12:33	#7
legends wear 7 Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,070	I don't really get your point....GSM900 and UMTS900 can co-exist. Quotes here would lead me to believe Vodafone and O2 are going to be going UMTS900 pretty soon. http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/2011/...rum-refarming/ Quote: Vodafone chief executive Guy Laurence who was the first to welcome the changes: “ We welcome this change to our spectrum licence. It will bring significant benefits to our customers in the form of faster and better mobile broadband with wider rural coverage and stronger in-building signal,” he said. A spokesperson for O2 meanwhile said the announcement meant it could begin the rollout of its 3G service on the 900mHz spectrum. “We welcome the conclusion of Ofcom’s licensing procedure and can now begin the process for deploying UMTS900,”

07-01-2011, 15:03	#8
wavejockglw Inactive Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Glasgow Posts: 10,276	Quote: Originally Posted by legends wear 7 I don't really get your point....GSM900 and UMTS900 can co-exist. Quotes here would lead me to believe Vodafone and O2 are going to be going UMTS900 pretty soon. According to the analysis by the Register (quoted above) it's not likely that any UMTS900 will happen soon at all. Every basestation requires updating and needs visited and there are 1000s of them. I can now see that both GSM & UMTS can coexist on the same spectrum but Vodafone and 02 (who both now share transmission sites) will only resort to upgrading where they have 3G capacity issues. They might implement some UMTS900 in rural areas for additonal coverage but I would not expect any significant investment soon as they will be keeping their options open for the 800Mhz spectrum where they can deploy LTE which is vastly more efficient for data services.

07-01-2011, 15:33	#9
flagpole Inactive Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 43,524	if i were 3 i'd be asking for a rebate on that very expensive 3G licence i bought.

07-01-2011, 15:53	#10
moox Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 14,645	Quote: Originally Posted by flagpole if i were 3 i'd be asking for a rebate on that very expensive 3G licence i bought. It does seem like a bit of a swizz - they've bought an expensive licence, spent millions building a network based upon that licence (and unlike the 2G networks they don't have a 2G network to fall upon in rural areas, without expensive roaming), and now are going to be undermined by its competitors being able to use their existing licences to improve coverage more cheaply. At least when all the networks had to use 2.1GHz it was a level playing field (apart from 3's lack of a 2G network).

07-01-2011, 17:17	#11
legends wear 7 Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,070	If you rebate one you have to rebate all. The asset vodafone spent 6bn on is no longer worth anywhere near that

07-01-2011, 18:07	#12
TheBigM Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: moon Posts: 12,983	Quote: Originally Posted by legends wear 7 If you rebate one you have to rebate all. The asset vodafone spent 6bn on is no longer worth anywhere near that No, the point is that before, buying the license was the only way of providing 3G services. Now OfCom have effectively given O2 and Vodafone "free" 3G licenses on other spectrum. I think keeping 3 viable is of great public/consumer interest. They have shown themselves to be among the most innovative of the network in addition to normal competition benefits. They brought down the cost of voice minutes, they did the free calls on european 3 networks, they're doing "all-you-can-eat" data. Even if you're not with them, the effect they have on spurring other networks into better deals for consumers is only a good thing.

07-01-2011, 18:20	#13
legends wear 7 Guest Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 2,070	The only way you could do a rebate would be due to devaluation of the asset...as every networks asset has been devalued you would have to rebate them all. Look at it like this, if these rules were in place in 2000 vodafone could have saved 6bn and spent money on network providing 3G services to the whole country years ago....same goes for the others.

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OFCOM hand mobile broadband advantage to Vodafone and O2