Most people can't see past the fact that you've got an ulterior motive (where you want it to be clearly the lowest possible rating for ITV being compared against BBC1), if BBC1+1 was being launched would you be addressing this issue so many times?

And IF my Auntie had Baws she'd be my Uncle, as we say in Scotland.

It did't, it got 2.6million 10% audience share the worst figures by a country mile that a new network Taggart has had in 28 years.

Which is a shame because Taggart was actually very good....I watched it because I missed the first part of Silent Witness the previous night.

I also had the misfortune to watch Trevor McDonald's Secret Med, which was pants.

Agreed.

I think +1 figures should always be published separately that way everyone wins. Those that want to add the figures together can easily do so, and those that don't, won't. Simple. Surely whichever way you side with +1 this way everyone is happy.

I was expecting 5 million for Taggart. I can't believe how it only achieved 2.8 million: the vocal version of the theme tune has been reintroduced, new credits, a new police station that looks extremely grim, the characters have been beefed up and the story was excellent. Put it down to the fact people have largely given up on ITV1 on Tuesdays for this poor showing. However, if word gets out that the show has improved over the last series, then the fans will return.

Why does it bring you such joy to see a drama do badly?

I totally don't understand your love affair with a television channel, seems a bit of a tragic thing to be a fan of. "I'm a huge fan of BBC1" Who cares??

In this day and age, any scripted drama should be supported because of the struggle for drama to get funding

I know, I've watched Taggart since 1983 and, except for a dull spell in the late nineties when it seemed to be on the way out, plus Mark Mc Manus had died, the series has been very good. Should Taggart go, it is people who think that ITV1 is probably showing Holiday Homes from Hell in this slot and not checking their digiguide for killing Scotland's best show. Last night's is a real return to form and as grim as anything from the eighties. Perhaps a two parter could help the cause.

I suspect the BBC released the figures for BBC1 HD on Christmas Day internally.

Same would apply. Honest.

If every TV channel (or at least the mainstream 5) had a +1 channel, then conceivably I could see a case for collating and it would then be a like for like comparison.

But it still could make it hard to find out who actually watched the all-important "first view", and would lump in casuals and second-viewers.

The overnights don't include just the people watching a programme 'live' at the broadcast time. They include people who watch programmes later on the same day too (VOSDAL - Viewing on Same Day as Live). The most obvious example probably was: the Lost finale which was reported as 635k in the overnights, even though only 68k watched it 'live'.


I'm not an ITV "fan" (I like some of their shows just like how I like shows on other channels) and Robbie does bring up fair points, but there's the other side of the story too. As Jason Deans said in his MG article, there's no right or wrong way and no universally accepted method of doing it. Some sources will report it one way and others will do it another way. People will have to accept that and not throw toys of their pram. There's no point saying this thread is a "farce" or "insane" (two words which have been used already) just because the ratings which could be posted here from a source (like Digital-i's blogs for e.g) might include or exclude (depending on your viewpoint) ITV1+1 in with the ITV1 figures.

In regard to what Robbie has said about some people watching programmes twice: yes there probably are some people that do that but it's most likely a very small minority. For e.g. of Taggart's 200k audience, I really doubt anymore than 10k watched it having seen the 9pm showing. It's such a insignificant number that once the ratings are rounded to 1.dp. or even 2d.p sometimes, it won't make any difference. But it's worth noting at this point that the BBC will be adding up repeat ratings to calculate their Live+7 ratings. I am completely in favour of them doing that but it's inevitable that some 'second-time' viewers will be included in those figures. It doesn't matter though as it's probably such an insignificant number that the BBC feels it's better to include those repeat showings to give a more accurate representation of how many people watched a particular programme across the day/week.

I've also checked on the BARB website regarding the following issue and can't find an answer: if someone watches a show live (whilst recording it), and then watches the same show once again on a PVR four days later, do they get counted as 1 or 2 people in the official figures? If they're counted as 2 people, essentially this problem of repeat viewers being counted in the ratings has been going on for a long time anyway. But if someone does know the answer (and can provide a link to the BARB website showing where it's stated) it would be appreciated.

Also, like I've said previously, BBC1 programmes will probably be a beneficiary ratings-wise from the launch of ITV1+1. I'll give yesterday's example (and it gets quite complicated here so bear with me): if there had been no ITV1+1, some Silent Witness viewers (about 100k I think) would've probably watched Taggart at 9pm. So instead of having an overnight rating of 6.8m, SW could well have had 6.7m, and Taggart would've had 2.7m instead of 2.6m. Now, if the ITV1+1 viewers are completely ignored, it's advantageous to BBC1 (in the ratings "battle" which incidentally some people can take too seriously on here) because it makes the gap between the two channels look bigger than it actually is: BBC1's figure (6.8m) would be 0.1m up on what it'd have been if ITV1+1 had not been broadcasting, ITV1's would be 0.1m down (2.6m) compared to if there had been no ITV1+1 - so a gap of 0.2m in favour of BBC1 would be formed simply due to the launch of ITV1+1. On the other hand, if you were to include ITV1+1: BBC1's figure (6.8m) would be 0.1m up, ITV1's would be 0.1m up (2.8m) - so they're still on a "level pegging" so to speak. It's really quite important bearing that in mind: ITV might be a beneficiary of the ITV1+1 launch but so will some of the other terrestrial channels which don't offer a +1 service.

Despite what I've said in the previous paragraph, that does not mean I'll lump in the ratings for ITV1+1 when reporting the overnight ratings. I'll try to do exactly what I've done with C4 in the past which is to mention them separately, for e.g.: "Big Brother: 2.5m, +1: 200k". On some occasions though, like on Tuesdays and Thursdays, they might be combined when those long lists are posted as that's what the original source says - I can't do anything about that.

But for the official series averages (such as when I post those drama or reality TV series averages), just like what I've done in the past for C4, I'll be including ITV1+1. For e.g. with Big Brother I've always included C4+1 so I've said BB9 as a series average had 3.9m (inc. +1) and I've always said that even though without +1 it had 3.6m. With ITV1, I'll do the same thing. At the end of the day, I believe for series averages, including +1 will give a more accurate impression of how many people watched a show during a day/week than if +1 isn't included. And I think it's fair to do it because as I've said earlier on, some of the non +1 terrestrial channels are going to benefit more than anything from ITV1+1 being in place.

CSI got dented by the competition especially from Silent Witness and Taggart, it still broke 2m but I imagine Five wanted more. I still think they should move it and let The Mentalist, NCIS or a new US drama take the Tuesday slot. I wonder if viewers would accept a drama other than a CSI original or Miami in that slot?

Silly boy.

People didn't watch the whole show?

How exactly am I a silly boy? It's you that's strangly obsessed with a television channel.

I thought the Poppy scenes might have been added, but she is in the Radio Times cast list for this week's episodes, and that was printed two weeks ago.

Just had a good chuckle at the fact that at 7pm ITV1+1 airs "Meridian Tonight" a local news programme for the south-east. Absolutely ludicrous that we get this programme as far north-west as Northampton. The figures must be extremely low in what is quite a prime slot.

Another good reason not to automatically bundle the figures together- sometimes it doesn't even show the same programmes as your regional variant of ITV1.

You roll your eyes at him but what he's said is true.

Obviously people have their preferences of channels but you take it to a completely different level to any other person on here or anyone I've ever met. By all means continue posting as you've done as it entertains some readers, but I just think it's a bit weird that you (or GeorgeS for that matter) can get so so supportive of a television channel, of all things. I know some people who work at the BBC and none of them are anywhere near as defensive or obsessed about the BBC as you.

But anyway, I thought chris_bauer made a particularly good point that in this day and age we should be hoping that any drama on any channel should be rating well as otherwise there'll be less and less on TV.

Yeah, it seems to have become a victim of the (little) willy-waving contest between ITV and STV.

I feel a bit sorry for the show, even though I personally think it relies too much on violence because the stories are so weak.

Never said you were. Im all for people posting the +1 figures and if the 9pm showing is down but the +1 showing is high then stating that as the cause and I will accept that. But, +1 is a repeat and shouldnt be bundled together with the first showing figure. People can talk about total reach for the night or two showings but its a second viewing.

One thing I do disagree with you is that this thread has been insane for quite a while.

Could Taggart continue without ITV funding? I reckon once ITV pull the plug, STV will have no choice but to do the same unless UKTV or BBC Worldwide cough up any gaps in funding.

ok so there maybe issues about ITV Regioanl News, but why do we suddenly have something against combinging the figures of +1 channels?

I think the important point is that combining the figures gives a truer refleciton of how often the program and the ads in it, are seen

We have had no problem with them up until today.

I think it was only the second one that was added. Their hair was slightly different - like they had filmed it at a different time and in the second scene no other cast appeared, unlike the first scene which included at least 2 principal cast members and the dialogue seemed to matter more in that one.

I'm hearing strong rumours that Live From Studio Five will be replaced with a new show at 6:30 in mid February.

I wonder what it will be?

That's the whole point of the BBC HD channel!

Ideally everything could be simulcast, but they'd need more HD channels for that. EastEnders has taken simulcast priority because BBC Two and BBC Four don't regularly screen stuff with HD simulcast potential at 10pm.

This series is only partially funded by ITV - UKTV and STV both put a lot of money in too.