i hope he doesn't, i mean yes he seems very good but maybe a bit too good. is it me or are 8 and 8.5 too high for the first show? im not saying he didnt deserve them but i think the judges should have marked them at least 7's as that would be fairer on the other skaters and becuase in future shows sam and briianne can not get much higher scores. having 3 judges is stupid tbh.
Will Sam Always Be Top Of The Leaderboard?
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I don't understand how anyone could describe Sam's performaces boring.
You need people like Ray, Haley and Sam on the show. It's certainly beats watching celebs who can't skate or dance. Or do celebs tripping over make for really exciting TV?
This year has alot of strong contenders though. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how everyone progesses. Certainly more so than last years series.
You need people like Ray, Haley and Sam on the show. It's certainly beats watching celebs who can't skate or dance. Or do celebs tripping over make for really exciting TV?
This year has alot of strong contenders though. I'm very much looking forward to seeing how everyone progesses. Certainly more so than last years series.
In my opinion, I watch it because I enjoy good skating and beautiful performances, not because a bunch of has-beens/wannabes are attempting to bump their career. And the only people this year that fill me with so much emotion that I don't want to tear my eyes away are Sam, Chloe and Jennifer. And if that makes it boring for people who just enjoy the "celeb" element, what a shame.
I don't think it's a one-horse race at all. Yes he'll probably be at the top every week but don't forget that he is on 25 out of 30 already, he'll be getting top marks next week then where will he go?! By the last couple of weeks I predict that at least 2 of them will also be getting top marks, probably Jennifer and Laura, perhaps Chloe too. So although he'll be top he won't be top alone. Those 3 girls all got 19/19.5, If they stay in for a while then they'll get top marks eventually so although Sam will be top he won't be top alone – the public like a journey so he might not win.
I think Sam's fantastic, but I also think he's definitely got the potential to improve, particularly on the technical side. The test will be whether he's actually given routines that will make him a better skater, or whether he ends up with Jai Ho-type routines that are all flash and no substance.
Of all the top contenders, Chloe's got the easiest path to improvement as the things she's doing wrong are very obvious (how hard is it to remember to turn out?!) with Laura not far behind, although I didn't like either of her routines at all.
Jennifer's got a tougher job because her stumbling block is keeping the performance going while she executes the moves. She'll manage it, but it might take a bit longer than for the others.
Of all the top contenders, Chloe's got the easiest path to improvement as the things she's doing wrong are very obvious (how hard is it to remember to turn out?!) with Laura not far behind, although I didn't like either of her routines at all.
Jennifer's got a tougher job because her stumbling block is keeping the performance going while she executes the moves. She'll manage it, but it might take a bit longer than for the others.
They might as well just give him the title now,hes as good as Ray already.
I cant see anyone challenging him right now,hes in a different league to the others so unless one of the other contestants does a Tonya Harding on him i think he has it in the bag,probably deservedly so.
I cant see anyone challenging him right now,hes in a different league to the others so unless one of the other contestants does a Tonya Harding on him i think he has it in the bag,probably deservedly so.
Originally Posted by minxymoo:
“They might as well just give him the title now,hes as good as Ray already.
I cant see anyone challenging him right now,hes in a different league to the others so unless one of the other contestants does a Tonya Harding on him i think he has it in the bag,probably deservedly so.”
“They might as well just give him the title now,hes as good as Ray already.
I cant see anyone challenging him right now,hes in a different league to the others so unless one of the other contestants does a Tonya Harding on him i think he has it in the bag,probably deservedly so.”
He may well be top of the leader board each week but to suggest he is as good as Ray ALREADY is certainly not true imo. Unless you mean as good as Ray in his second skate as they both scored 25? He certainly is not Rays level at the end of the series, we also have yet to see him do a jump, long solo skate, fly (which may be more problematic given his bigger build) or do a bolero. Only then could we say that. We can only compare Sam with Ray in week 3.
In my opinion he is not of Rays level in terms of DANCING on ice, which is what the show is called. It seems to be increasingly "Big Lifts" on ice or "Circus Tricks" on ice, which is fine if that is what the public want. But looking at Rays performance in his second skate, he is in a different league in terms of musicality, poise, hands, arms etc. which Sam may well reach but I certainly dont think he is there yet. I think his bigger build will make it more difficult to look as elegant too. Also I dont think he has the same connection with his partner as Ray had, and tbh they look a little odd given the difference in their heights.
I do hope they let him dance on ice rather than go for more and more big lifts and tricks personally. He has the potential to be very good indeed and is deservedly top of the leaderboard. But as Tony Gubba said when Ray did his latin routine "Who needs tricks when you can dance on ice like this?"
Originally Posted by alfie71:
“He may well be top of the leader board each week but to suggest he is as good as Ray ALREADY is certainly not true imo. Unless you mean as good as Ray in his second skate as they both scored 25? He certainly is not Rays level at the end of the series, we also have yet to see him do a jump, long solo skate, fly (which may be more problematic given his bigger build) or do a bolero. Only then could we say that. We can only compare Sam with Ray in week 3.
In my opinion he is not of Rays level in terms of DANCING on ice, which is what the show is called. It seems to be increasingly "Big Lifts" on ice or "Circus Tricks" on ice, which is fine if that is what the public want. But looking at Rays performance in his second skate, he is in a different league in terms of musicality, poise, hands, arms etc. which Sam may well reach but I certainly dont think he is there yet. I think his bigger build will make it more difficult to look as elegant too. Also I dont think he has the same connection with his partner as Ray had, and tbh they look a little odd given the difference in their heights.
I do hope they let him dance on ice rather than go for more and more big lifts and tricks personally. He has the potential to be very good indeed and is deservedly top of the leaderboard. But as Tony Gubba said when Ray did his latin routine "Who needs tricks when you can dance on ice like this?"”
“He may well be top of the leader board each week but to suggest he is as good as Ray ALREADY is certainly not true imo. Unless you mean as good as Ray in his second skate as they both scored 25? He certainly is not Rays level at the end of the series, we also have yet to see him do a jump, long solo skate, fly (which may be more problematic given his bigger build) or do a bolero. Only then could we say that. We can only compare Sam with Ray in week 3.
In my opinion he is not of Rays level in terms of DANCING on ice, which is what the show is called. It seems to be increasingly "Big Lifts" on ice or "Circus Tricks" on ice, which is fine if that is what the public want. But looking at Rays performance in his second skate, he is in a different league in terms of musicality, poise, hands, arms etc. which Sam may well reach but I certainly dont think he is there yet. I think his bigger build will make it more difficult to look as elegant too. Also I dont think he has the same connection with his partner as Ray had, and tbh they look a little odd given the difference in their heights.
I do hope they let him dance on ice rather than go for more and more big lifts and tricks personally. He has the potential to be very good indeed and is deservedly top of the leaderboard. But as Tony Gubba said when Ray did his latin routine "Who needs tricks when you can dance on ice like this?"”
I pretty much agree with all of this. What I want to see is someone who is a good dancer, not just a good skater, or good at lifting or being lifted.
Originally Posted by alfie71:
“He may well be top of the leader board each week but to suggest he is as good as Ray ALREADY is certainly not true imo. Unless you mean as good as Ray in his second skate as they both scored 25? He certainly is not Rays level at the end of the series, we also have yet to see him do a jump, long solo skate, fly (which may be more problematic given his bigger build) or do a bolero. Only then could we say that. We can only compare Sam with Ray in week 3.
In my opinion he is not of Rays level in terms of DANCING on ice, which is what the show is called. It seems to be increasingly "Big Lifts" on ice or "Circus Tricks" on ice, which is fine if that is what the public want. But looking at Rays performance in his second skate, he is in a different league in terms of musicality, poise, hands, arms etc. which Sam may well reach but I certainly dont think he is there yet. I think his bigger build will make it more difficult to look as elegant too. Also I dont think he has the same connection with his partner as Ray had, and tbh they look a little odd given the difference in their heights.
I do hope they let him dance on ice rather than go for more and more big lifts and tricks personally. He has the potential to be very good indeed and is deservedly top of the leaderboard. But as Tony Gubba said when Ray did his latin routine "Who needs tricks when you can dance on ice like this?"”
“He may well be top of the leader board each week but to suggest he is as good as Ray ALREADY is certainly not true imo. Unless you mean as good as Ray in his second skate as they both scored 25? He certainly is not Rays level at the end of the series, we also have yet to see him do a jump, long solo skate, fly (which may be more problematic given his bigger build) or do a bolero. Only then could we say that. We can only compare Sam with Ray in week 3.
In my opinion he is not of Rays level in terms of DANCING on ice, which is what the show is called. It seems to be increasingly "Big Lifts" on ice or "Circus Tricks" on ice, which is fine if that is what the public want. But looking at Rays performance in his second skate, he is in a different league in terms of musicality, poise, hands, arms etc. which Sam may well reach but I certainly dont think he is there yet. I think his bigger build will make it more difficult to look as elegant too. Also I dont think he has the same connection with his partner as Ray had, and tbh they look a little odd given the difference in their heights.
I do hope they let him dance on ice rather than go for more and more big lifts and tricks personally. He has the potential to be very good indeed and is deservedly top of the leaderboard. But as Tony Gubba said when Ray did his latin routine "Who needs tricks when you can dance on ice like this?"”
You wont get any arguments off me about Rays talent alfie...i voted for him every week.
I agree Sam hasnt got Rays dancers poise and artistry yet..ill reword it...i think Sam has the potential to be as good as Ray eventually.
i dont think the difference in height has to matter really but thats just my opinion..Sam would need a damn tall lady to skate with.
yes id also like to see Sam doing more expressive moves,i prefer Rays second skate to Sams,it was sublime but i thought Sam was head and shoulders (literally)above the others last night.....and im a Vanilla supporter.
does anyone think Sam is being overmarked?...i dont.
I like Vanilla Ice too. I could see him being a contender as I think the public will take to him, he can probably do big lifts if that is what people want, and he can do some forms of dancing obviously well and has musicality. I think he may actually give Sam a run for his money as he has the personality to do so. I actually really enjoyed watching him. I can't see any of the girls at the moment providing competition, but it is early days.
At the moment Sam deserves to be out in front because his routines are superior. He seems like a really nice guy and his routines are great to watch so no complaints from me.
But like someone has said before me there are a lot of shows to go and Sam really doesn't have many marks to go before that elusive thirty. I genuinely do think that Laura, Chloe, Vanilla and Jen have a chance to catch up to him and they all bring something different to the table.
I'll worry about it being a one horse race when we're closer to the end and if the gap in the marks is still the same.
But like someone has said before me there are a lot of shows to go and Sam really doesn't have many marks to go before that elusive thirty. I genuinely do think that Laura, Chloe, Vanilla and Jen have a chance to catch up to him and they all bring something different to the table.
I'll worry about it being a one horse race when we're closer to the end and if the gap in the marks is still the same.
Originally Posted by alfie71:
“I like Vanilla Ice too. I could see him being a contender as I think the public will take to him, he can probably do big lifts if that is what people want, and he can do some forms of dancing obviously well and has musicality. I think he may actually give Sam a run for his money as he has the personality to do so. I actually really enjoyed watching him. I can't see any of the girls at the moment providing competition, but it is early days.”
“I like Vanilla Ice too. I could see him being a contender as I think the public will take to him, he can probably do big lifts if that is what people want, and he can do some forms of dancing obviously well and has musicality. I think he may actually give Sam a run for his money as he has the personality to do so. I actually really enjoyed watching him. I can't see any of the girls at the moment providing competition, but it is early days.”
A Vanilla win would be my dream..i adored his performance last night..my favourite but im biased..
i love the way he moves...(nice nice baby)
I agree hes very charismatic...id say the most charismatic performer by a mile,although yes Sam is technically better at the mo..lets hope your right that he gives Sam a run for his money.
going back to your chemistry comment re Ray and Maria..i think Vanilla and Katie also have a really good connection.
in fact rewatching their performance from last night now i think they were undermarked.
Originally Posted by rosiegirl:
“ I remember when Ray Quin was on there and he was so smug - I know he went on to win it but there were a few weeks when he didn't do as well as he would have liked.”
“ I remember when Ray Quin was on there and he was so smug - I know he went on to win it but there were a few weeks when he didn't do as well as he would have liked.”
Ray Quinn was smug. That was his character - little smug show off - can imagine him as a child - you'd want to lock him in a cupboard.
On This Morning today Hayley Tammadon said she believes that Sam is actually holding back at the moment. Philip and Holly didn't push her on this, so we didn't find out whether this is just a hunch on Hayley's part or whether she has seen evidence of it.
Originally Posted by SpeedyWalker:
“Ray Quinn was smug. That was his character - little smug show off - can imagine him as a child - you'd want to lock him in a cupboard.”
“Ray Quinn was smug. That was his character - little smug show off - can imagine him as a child - you'd want to lock him in a cupboard.”
not a fan then?
Originally Posted by Phoebica:
“I don't think it's a one-horse race at all. Yes he'll probably be at the top every week but don't forget that he is on 25 out of 30 already, he'll be getting top marks next week then where will he go?! By the last couple of weeks I predict that at least 2 of them will also be getting top marks, probably Jennifer and Laura, perhaps Chloe too. So although he'll be top he won't be top alone. Those 3 girls all got 19/19.5, If they stay in for a while then they'll get top marks eventually so although Sam will be top he won't be top alone – the public like a journey so he might not win.”
“I don't think it's a one-horse race at all. Yes he'll probably be at the top every week but don't forget that he is on 25 out of 30 already, he'll be getting top marks next week then where will he go?! By the last couple of weeks I predict that at least 2 of them will also be getting top marks, probably Jennifer and Laura, perhaps Chloe too. So although he'll be top he won't be top alone. Those 3 girls all got 19/19.5, If they stay in for a while then they'll get top marks eventually so although Sam will be top he won't be top alone – the public like a journey so he might not win.”
But if that happens, he will still be top of the leaderboard and because he will have performed so well so many times, he's going to get a lot of support from the viewers, (like Hayley last year), and the others will have no chance.
Quote:
“I don't understand how anyone could describe Sam's performaces boring.
You need people like Ray, Haley and Sam on the show. It's certainly beats watching celebs who can't skate or dance. Or do celebs tripping over make for really exciting TV?”
“I don't understand how anyone could describe Sam's performaces boring.
You need people like Ray, Haley and Sam on the show. It's certainly beats watching celebs who can't skate or dance. Or do celebs tripping over make for really exciting TV?”
With all due respect, you're missing the point. Because he is so much better than the other acts, it makes for a very boring show. You may as well just hand the trophy over to him right now and be done with it. People like to see a competition, where the winner could be one of several different people. That makes it more exciting. Because Sam is so good, people are thinking, "Well, we know who's going to win, so what's the point in watching?"
Originally Posted by lulu g:
“On This Morning today Hayley Tammadon said she believes that Sam is actually holding back at the moment. Philip and Holly didn't push her on this, so we didn't find out whether this is just a hunch on Hayley's part or whether she has seen evidence of it.”
“On This Morning today Hayley Tammadon said she believes that Sam is actually holding back at the moment. Philip and Holly didn't push her on this, so we didn't find out whether this is just a hunch on Hayley's part or whether she has seen evidence of it.”
I agree with that, think he could do alot more....it is a one horse race at the moment, there are possible only 4 couples worth watching the rest are there for the ride and money
Originally Posted by SpeedyWalker:
“Ray Quinn was smug. That was his character - little smug show off - can imagine him as a child - you'd want to lock him in a cupboard.”
“Ray Quinn was smug. That was his character - little smug show off - can imagine him as a child - you'd want to lock him in a cupboard.”
This post clearly shows that you are not old enough to have seen Ray as an award winning child actor. There was certainly nothing smug about him then and I didn't see any smugness about him on DOI either.
Originally Posted by ABCZYX:
“But if that happens, he will still be top of the leaderboard and because he will have performed so well so many times, he's going to get a lot of support from the viewers, (like Hayley last year), and the others will have no chance.
With all due respect, you're missing the point. Because he is so much better than the other acts, it makes for a very boring show. You may as well just hand the trophy over to him right now and be done with it. People like to see a competition, where the winner could be one of several different people. That makes it more exciting. Because Sam is so good, people are thinking, "Well, we know who's going to win, so what's the point in watching?"”
“But if that happens, he will still be top of the leaderboard and because he will have performed so well so many times, he's going to get a lot of support from the viewers, (like Hayley last year), and the others will have no chance.
With all due respect, you're missing the point. Because he is so much better than the other acts, it makes for a very boring show. You may as well just hand the trophy over to him right now and be done with it. People like to see a competition, where the winner could be one of several different people. That makes it more exciting. Because Sam is so good, people are thinking, "Well, we know who's going to win, so what's the point in watching?"”
I don't see it that way. I feel that a stand out performer makes the other celebs up their game too.
What's the point in watching? To see some fantastic ice dance routines. Who cares who wins as long as they are good.
I think I must be in the minority as I'm really looking forward to seeing how Sam progresses even further over the weeks. I love it when there is somebody who is obviously a very good skater as it gives the show a good mix - I don't just want to see people who you spend the whole routine feeling anxious that they are going to trip up. The fact that there are so many potential good skaters this series makes me think it could be one of the best and the closest in voting.
Sam's second routine actually made me go wow and that hasn't happened very often. Previously my fave has been Chris Fountain because I like the mix of tricks and dance. I think as he is paired with Brianne who is known for trusting partners with quite difficult moves we could see the Headbanger again this series!
Sam's second routine actually made me go wow and that hasn't happened very often. Previously my fave has been Chris Fountain because I like the mix of tricks and dance. I think as he is paired with Brianne who is known for trusting partners with quite difficult moves we could see the Headbanger again this series!
I think it's very likely that Sam will top the leaderboard throughout this year's competition. He is exciting to watch and might very well produce some breathtaking performances, but I won't be voting for him because he has too much of a head start.
Having said that I'll have no complaints if he engages the public and amasses enough votes to lift the trophy - it's the name of the game.
Having said that I'll have no complaints if he engages the public and amasses enough votes to lift the trophy - it's the name of the game.
Originally Posted by RJ1979:
“I don't see it that way. I feel that a stand out performer makes the other celebs up their game too.”
“I don't see it that way. I feel that a stand out performer makes the other celebs up their game too.”
That doesn't seem to be what happened in the past though. I don't think Ray's presence made anyone up their game beyond what they would have done anyway, for example.
Quote:
“What's the point in watching? To see some fantastic ice dance routines. Who cares who wins as long as they are good.”
“What's the point in watching? To see some fantastic ice dance routines. Who cares who wins as long as they are good.”
Lots of people care. That's why they vote.
Besides, it's not only about who wins. There's also the question of how long people stay in and how many times we see them skate. Sam will always be taking up one place, meaning some of the others will go out one week earlier than they otherwise would have.
Originally Posted by alfie71:
“He may well be top of the leader board each week but to suggest he is as good as Ray ALREADY is certainly not true imo. Unless you mean as good as Ray in his second skate as they both scored 25? He certainly is not Rays level at the end of the series, we also have yet to see him do a jump, long solo skate, fly (which may be more problematic given his bigger build) or do a bolero. Only then could we say that. We can only compare Sam with Ray in week 3.”
“He may well be top of the leader board each week but to suggest he is as good as Ray ALREADY is certainly not true imo. Unless you mean as good as Ray in his second skate as they both scored 25? He certainly is not Rays level at the end of the series, we also have yet to see him do a jump, long solo skate, fly (which may be more problematic given his bigger build) or do a bolero. Only then could we say that. We can only compare Sam with Ray in week 3.”
That doesn't really make sense. For example, we can compare Sam in week 3 with almost everyone who's ever been a contestant and notice that Sam is already a better skater than they were at the end of their time in DOI.
Nothing stops us from comparing Sam in week 3 with other people in other weeks.
The only difference re Ray is that there's some doubt as to whether Sam is already better than Ray was in later weeks. We can make the comparison; it's just not so clear what the result should be.
Quote:
“In my opinion he is not of Rays level in terms of DANCING on ice, which is what the show is called. It seems to be increasingly "Big Lifts" on ice or "Circus Tricks" on ice, which is fine if that is what the public want. But looking at Rays performance in his second skate, he is in a different league in terms of musicality, poise, hands, arms etc. which Sam may well reach but I certainly dont think he is there yet. I think his bigger build will make it more difficult to look as elegant too. Also I dont think he has the same connection with his partner as Ray had, and tbh they look a little odd given the difference in their heights.
I do hope they let him dance on ice rather than go for more and more big lifts and tricks personally. He has the potential to be very good indeed and is deservedly top of the leaderboard. But as Tony Gubba said when Ray did his latin routine "Who needs tricks when you can dance on ice like this?"”
“In my opinion he is not of Rays level in terms of DANCING on ice, which is what the show is called. It seems to be increasingly "Big Lifts" on ice or "Circus Tricks" on ice, which is fine if that is what the public want. But looking at Rays performance in his second skate, he is in a different league in terms of musicality, poise, hands, arms etc. which Sam may well reach but I certainly dont think he is there yet. I think his bigger build will make it more difficult to look as elegant too. Also I dont think he has the same connection with his partner as Ray had, and tbh they look a little odd given the difference in their heights.
I do hope they let him dance on ice rather than go for more and more big lifts and tricks personally. He has the potential to be very good indeed and is deservedly top of the leaderboard. But as Tony Gubba said when Ray did his latin routine "Who needs tricks when you can dance on ice like this?"”
Yes, it's "DANCING" on ice, but the dancing is supposed to involve a lot of skating. Otherwise, they could go out and dance without wearing skates.
I already like Sam better than Ray or Hayley, because he's not relying so much on techniques such as dancing on his toe pics that let an good dancer take great advantage of their dancing experience without doing much skating.
What I don't like is that he is SO much better than the others that it doesn't (imo) make sense to have him in the show.
Quote:"That doesn't really make sense. For example, we can compare Sam in week 3 with almost everyone who's ever been a contestant and notice that Sam is already a better skater than they were at the end of their time in DOI.
Nothing stops us from comparing Sam in week 3 with other people in other weeks."
Actually my comment makes perfect sense if you read it properly. I was only talking about comparing Ray with Sam in week 3, not anyone else. Rays week 3 routine was a different level in my opinion to Sams, in DANCE terms, arms, posture etc. Personally I am not impressed by filling in with big lifts.
Quote:Yes, it's "DANCING" on ice, but the dancing is supposed to involve a lot of skating. Otherwise, they could go out and dance without wearing skates.
" That doesn't make sense at all. It IS dancing on Ice. Sorry but if you are suggesting that Ray didn't do much skating or relied on toepicking round the ice like Hayley, I find that frankly ludicrous. Try watching the routines again - maybe you have forgotten how good a skater Ray was?
Nothing stops us from comparing Sam in week 3 with other people in other weeks."
Actually my comment makes perfect sense if you read it properly. I was only talking about comparing Ray with Sam in week 3, not anyone else. Rays week 3 routine was a different level in my opinion to Sams, in DANCE terms, arms, posture etc. Personally I am not impressed by filling in with big lifts.
Quote:Yes, it's "DANCING" on ice, but the dancing is supposed to involve a lot of skating. Otherwise, they could go out and dance without wearing skates.
" That doesn't make sense at all. It IS dancing on Ice. Sorry but if you are suggesting that Ray didn't do much skating or relied on toepicking round the ice like Hayley, I find that frankly ludicrous. Try watching the routines again - maybe you have forgotten how good a skater Ray was?
Originally Posted by Veri:
“I already like Sam better than Ray or Hayley, because he's not relying so much on techniques such as dancing on his toe pics that let an good dancer take great advantage of their dancing experience without doing much skating.
What I don't like is that he is SO much better than the others that it doesn't (imo) make sense to have him in the show.”
“I already like Sam better than Ray or Hayley, because he's not relying so much on techniques such as dancing on his toe pics that let an good dancer take great advantage of their dancing experience without doing much skating.
What I don't like is that he is SO much better than the others that it doesn't (imo) make sense to have him in the show.”
I'd agree with you re: Sam's style - it's refreshing to have a good skater who hasn't got so much dance training that it gets in the way of showing what they can do on their blades.
In terms of the competition, I'm not watching it just to see who wins and I don't suppose many others are either. I'm watching it to see some great skating, and by that criteria I'll judge Sam against his own benchmark and not anybody else's. If he wins, he'll probably deserve it. If he doesn't, it'll mean someone else has made huge strides to win the audience's hearts - and that's fine too.
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