It's all relative. With some of the girls scoring 6s and 7s in the first week, Sam had to be marked higher to show that he's better than them.

You'll have noticed that last week, most people didn't get higher scores than in their first week - many were scored lower and only those who showed a genuine step up from their original routine (Johnson, Chloe and yes, Sam) were given higher marks.

As the show progresses, I don't expect Sam's scores to go up a lot, as he'll have to improve to gain better marks from the likes of Robin and Jason - they don't like people who sit on their laurels.

So I'd expect to see him gain similar scores for a while, but have to work harder to get them - which, because it's marking in relation to other skaters and to previous performances, is fine by me.

Exactly how did it stop Ray showing what he could do on his blades that he had danced in the past? It didn't stop the professionals like Robin Cousins saying Ray had reached professional level! So he must have shown them something even if some of the audience missed it.

It didn't. But it did mean that Ray got a lot of routines that focused on what he could do as a dancer - which, invariably, cut into the amount of skating he did on occasion. Calm down dear, it's not meant to be a go at any of the winners, who've all been very deserving

Didn't we have all the same complaints with Chris Fountain?

Please don't be so patronising and I find it offensive to call people "dear" anyway! I do not need to calm down. I was making a perfectly valid rational point. Of course Ray had routines which focussed on Dancing. They all should as it is dancing on ice. Nobody suggested you were having a go at any of the winners. Don't be so sensitive "dear"!

Yes it happens every year! All the winners and in the case of Chris runners up (who many thought should have won) were excellent or outstanding in their own, if different ways. Some are better dancers, some more artistic, some better at leading partners, some have more strength. As a dancer myself I naturally favour those with musicality, artistry and dance ability and I like to see Dancing on Ice. Others may be more impressed by tricks and lifts etc. Nothing wrong with either view, depends what people want to see.

Oh I'm sorry, I find asking demanding questions and using exclamation marks a bit patronising and aggressive as a writing style, so I assumed you were finding fault with my opinion.

I don't know about complaints with Chris Fountain on here because I don't think I went on the Dancing on Ice forum at that time, but with his series, it was always either him or Suzanne Shaw at the top of the leaderboard. Chris was probably the favourite going into the final as he had been at the top more times than Suzanne had, and I was expecting him to be the winner before it started. However, Suzanne pulled it out of the bag and gave two brilliant performances. Not only that, but they both had top marks, and that had never happened before.

The difference with Chris Fountain and Ray, Hayley and (more than likely) Sam, is that it wasn't quite as clear cut as to who the winner would be back then. With recent series, it is very clear.

Yes, but I know what you were talking about, and my post took that into account. I simply pointed out that since we could compare different weeks in other cases, we could do it with Ray too. Ray isn't different from the others in any way that stops us.


It IS dancing on ice, but that doesn't mean they ought to be able to just go out and dance in ways that have little to do with being on ice.

Ray didn't to as nearly much pick dancing as Hayley, and he was a better skater than Hayley, but he still made much use of dance stuff (including pick dancing) that made no significant use of being on ice.

Sam -- unlike Ray and Hayley -- doesn't keep having me thinking ah, he's found a way to get flashy dance moves onto the ice.

Yes, and those complaints were right then too.


Chris wasn't as far ahead of the others a Sam, Ray and (in a different way) Hayley were. So it wasn't so clear he would win (and of course he didn't win).

One of the big problems with having someone like Sam, Ray or Hayley in DOI, btw, is that the time spent giving them great routines, well suited to showcasing their abilities, is that others get less good routines then they might have had otherwise.

And even then they don't always get it right. Much as I loved watching Ray, in retrospect, I don't think his choreography really showcased everything he could do. I think his skating was better than we ever saw but the choreography focused so much on showing off his dance ability that the skating was slightly overlooked. It's possible this happened a bit with Hayley too although it may have been more necessary with her as I'm not sure her skating was as sound.

He is a very good skater and I blame the producers of the show who must have known he had previous skating experience before booking him for the show. He is like Ray Quinn who was a skater, had ballet and ballroom training and was fantastic but all the contestants did not start on the same playing field. You could see clearly that Ray was classically trained by the way he held his body when he skated and he was terrific from day one. Sam is the same and I guess we know already who is going to win DoI. Often the contestants lie about their experience. Denise's husband told everyone on Loose Women that Denise had skated before and was a good skater before she started the DoI training!!! Denise desperately tried to shut him up!!!!LOL

Ray didn't have previous ICE skating experience, he had done some rollerblading as a teenager as lots of lads do, but he was quite upfront about his past dance experience etc. I understand Sam has previous dance experience s well as skating, aand has appeared in shows etc. but I haven't heard that mentioned but may have missed it. If anyone, Denise or anyone, has previous dance or ice experience I think they should declare it. Maybe they think it will harm their chances but on the whole I think people prefer contestants to be honest and it didn't stop Ray or even Hayley or Suzanne (both of whom had dance experience) winning or Jessica (who had dance and skating experience although she didn't mention it I don't think) reaching the final. I believe the audience appreciate honesty and ultimately vote for who they enjoy watching regardless.

Wiki says:


So OK, the man knows how to dance. The whole presentation of his previous 'skating experience' on screen, though, has been all about how he used to visit the rink as a teenager with his mates. Well, so did I - in fact I've even had a few lessons - but I wouldn't be anywhere near Sam's class on the ice.

Has Sam actually been documented as having any more skating experience than that mentioned on the show? Because otherwise, I don't see the fact he's been to the rink a few times socially as remotely relevant.

Exactly the same as Ray in that case, but people are still mentioning his previous skating experience, which amounted he said to four times as a child. So it wasn't relevant in his case either. My point really was about Sams extensive DANCE experience, not his skating, and Sam has not mentioned any dance experience, nor has anyone else.

As far as I remember, they didn't dwell on Ray's experience much on the show either - or Hayley's, come to that. A lot of column inches were spent on their previous experience away from the show, though, and it hasn't got to that stage with Sam - yet

Ray said himself on Show 1 that "Dance helps a lot", he was very upfront about his experience and his belief that it helped, but neither Hayley nor Sam mentioned dance experience so they haven't been able to dwell on it. Maybe they just haven't had the chance but I would rather all the contestants were up front about experience that may help tbh. I don't really think it matters to the general public as much as they might fear.

IIRC, it was more than some rollerblading as lots of lads do.

He was over marked tonight

I think it's okay if he's on top. If he's good enough to get the high marks, then so be it. If people are getting 6s and 7s but he's better tha by all means give him an 8. It's not boring if he's better tan anyone else. Iat should give everyone a kick up the bum. It'd be stupid to ask him to do badly just because.

As for the dancing vs. skating thing, I think skating is the rimary thing, but if you can't dance... well... you're screwed. So dancing is important too.