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Intermittent noise on line - worried about engineer charging


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Old 17-01-2011, 22:50
rosalynn
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Hi There,

Will try and keep this brief...

I'm with Talk Talk. Have had an on-off problem with noise on the line, broadband dropping etc.

Changed microfilters and router, and tried plugging into the socket behind the faceplate and still had problems.

Talk Talk have tested the line and it has failed with either a problem with earthing or voltage on the line.

'Cube' (?) engineer visited, rewired the ADSL cable from the master socket, replaced the faceplate and just as was about to leave it dropped out again so he reported it as a line fault saying the fault was not on my property.

A BT Openreach engineer tried visiting today while I was out, left a 'sorry we missed you card' and wrote on it 'line is OK to grey box on front of house, need access to check for noise' implying the problem is in my house.

I believe the line was OK because it was an intermittent fault and was OK when he tested it today.

I asked Openreach when rearranging the engineer visit that if no fault was found (ie, as it's intermittent, if he visited and it didn't play up...) would I be charged. He didn't seem sure, but implied that if there was no fault found with my equipment I wouldn't be charged.

Is this correct? Any steps I can take to make sure that I don't get charged? The only thing that hasn't been replaced is the cable from the grey box on the front of the property to the master socket. If this was at fault, would it show up on the copper line tests they run?

I just don't want the engineer to arrive, find no fault (because it's intermittent) and charge me just because it happened to be OK when he visited.

Would getting the engineer report from Talk Talk help? And do you think I need to get in writing that they will not charge unless a fault is found with my equipment (as opposed to charging because no fault was discovered on the day)?

Thanks
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Old 17-01-2011, 23:43
LION8TIGER
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'Cube' (?) engineer visited, rewired the ADSL cable from the master socket, replaced the faceplate and just as was about to leave it dropped out again so he reported it as a line fault saying the fault was not on my property.
I think/hope the above will save you from any charges.
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Old 18-01-2011, 09:19
chrisjr
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Openreach won't know anything about you getting charged or not. They do not charge end users for any fault investigation or fixing they do. They work only for service providers, ie whoever you are paying line rental to.

They will raise a charge with the service provider. It is the service provider who chooses whether to pass this cost on to the end user (ie you) or absorb the cost themselves. Depending on where the fault occurs.
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Old 18-01-2011, 12:59
rosalynn
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Thank you both LION8TIGER and chrisjr, very useful - might speak to Talktalk and see if they can send a letter confirming what the Cubr engineer told me when he visited.
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Old 19-01-2011, 10:51
TalkTalkSupport
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Hi rosalynn,

Sorry to hear that you have a fault, Intermittent faults are always harder to find as its often ok when we test or when an engineer visits.

With regards to the charges... If no fault is found with the line or a fault is found with your own equipment/wiring then the Openreach charge would be passed onto the customer. The following may help:

http://www.talktalkmembers.com/forum...ead.php?t=8909

With regards to the fault itself, if you have managed to replicate the fault in your test socket with alternative equipment then its almost 100% going to be a fault on the line which would come under the remit of Openreach to find and resolve.

Have you noticed if the fault occurs at certain times of the day or when the weather is bad?

Regards
Stephen
TalkTalk
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Old 21-01-2011, 14:45
rosalynn
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Hi Stephen,

Thank you for the reply.

The bit that concerns me is that 'if no fault is found with the line...' I will be charged.

If it's intermittent there's every chance the line will be fine when he visits - so I will be liable for the charge, even if there are no problems with my equipment/wiring? The link you posted says only "If an Openreach engineer visits to resolve a fault and finds the root cause to be your equipment or internal wiring then you will be liable for the charges", but your post suggests if there is no problem found with the line I will be charged too?

I'm concerned about the idea you will be charging me £99 when for all we know the problem is with the line. Surely it should be up to the engineer to PROVE that the problem is on my property? If he can't I don't see why I should pay.
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Old 23-01-2011, 14:10
beerhunter2
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The bit that concerns me is that 'if no fault is found with the line...' I will be charged.
It would concern me to.

It appears to me that some ISPs try to scare subscribers with threats of charges to as to deter them from insisting on Openreach involvement. In my opinion this is a dreadful practice which would start me looking for a new ISP.

If your router is connected to the Test Socket then there is no chance that the the fault can be with your wiring.
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Old 24-01-2011, 19:38
rosalynn
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It would concern me to.

It appears to me that some ISPs try to scare subscribers with threats of charges to as to deter them from insisting on Openreach involvement. In my opinion this is a dreadful practice which would start me looking for a new ISP.

If your router is connected to the Test Socket then there is no chance that the the fault can be with your wiring.
I agree. I think Stephen is wrong above in saying that if no fault is found the charge is down to me, as most of the other people I have spoken seem to disagree and say that I will ONLY be charged if the fault is with MY equipment.

I asked for this in writing but the best they could do was to check with a supervisor then make a note on my account. Openreach seem to suggest the same, but as chrisjr says above it's not up to them anyway so that doesn't fill me with much confidence either.

My router isn't routinely plugged into the test socket, but the fault did still occur when it was plugged in there. Funnily enough it has been OK for two days, but tonight it's been pretty bad.
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Old 24-01-2011, 21:08
chrisjr
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Just out of interest did you follow the link given by Steven of TalkTalk in his post? That mentions you will be charged if the fault is found to be with your equipment but nothing about charging if there is no fault found on the line.

Also can't find any reference to charging if no fault is found in the Terms and Conditions. Again it just says you will only be charged if it's your equipment/wiring or you've damaged the line.
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Old 24-01-2011, 21:30
rosalynn
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Just out of interest did you follow the link given by Steven of TalkTalk in his post? That mentions you will be charged if the fault is found to be with your equipment but nothing about charging if there is no fault found on the line.

Also can't find any reference to charging if no fault is found in the Terms and Conditions. Again it just says you will only be charged if it's your equipment/wiring or you've damaged the line.
Thanks. Yes, I did follow the link, I replied to his post asking for clarification because like you say it doesn't mention a charge if no fault is found. I will definitely be using this link if there is a dispute and will double check the T&Cs.

Thanks again.
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Old 01-02-2011, 16:02
TalkTalkSupport
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Hi rosalynn,

if a BT OpenReach engineer visits and finds no fault with the line then BT charge TalkTalk. It is that simple.

There are lots and lots of variables like if your router is at fault or you have decorated over the cable and damaged it for example those would lead to charges.

If we believe you have been charged in error and can substantiate that we would query the charges and/or credit those charges.

If you get noise on the line with just a corded phone at the test socket and all your other equipment disconnected and then you get the same when testing with an alternate phone on the same test, then you really shouldnt be charged.

I hope that helps, although there are a lot of ifs ands or buts involved with Time Related Charges, if we have done the diagnostics with you thoroughly then we would have a good idea of what to expect from an engineer visit.

Ady

TalkTalk.
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