Still the number one show but a bit of a drop in numbers.

Challenge
w/e 12 Jun 2011
000's
1 TNA IMPACT (TUE 2200) 197

It'll be interesting to see tomorrow's numbers, give the show itself is superb.

Reminds me of Mark Hughes. When given next-to-nothing to spend, the guy's successful (Blackburn Rovers) but give him an open chequebook (Manchester City) and he fails.


I take exception to that. "Spot Monkey" wrestling is exactly what is entertaining about today's wrestling product, no matter what brand you watch. Since WCW brought the cruisers in, "spot monkey's" have been the biggest attraction, besides massive names.

Cant stand TNA personally i think it should be on other chanells not challenge.But thats my opinion and at least sky are improving challenge.

Any thoughts on the possibility of CM Punk leaving WWE? Aside from his issues with Jeff 'Teflon' Hardy, how would he fit in with TNA if he were to sign?

In my opinion thats exactly the kind of guy TNA should be breaking into the piggy bank for.

You are mistaken, my argument was that Paul Heyman achieved success with ECW making it into a reconisible brand, bringing forward new stars, and emphasising a style of wrestling that was copied by the competition. All of those things are areas in which TNA struggles.

I'm not sure anybody is truly aware of Heyman's full list of 'demands' outside of the people involved in the negotiation process. Going by what he has said in the open forum of the internet, the guy speaks a lot of sense, and at the very least recognises the issues that TNA is having which is a lot more that some of those in charge at the moment see. As Jamespondo quite rightly said, its not a huge risk giving the guy hiring and firing control, he has a good track record with such things. And in my very first post on the subject i suggested it should have been a short term deal initially anyway, so if he made a complete hash of it there wouldn't have been irrepairable damage.

This is all completely pie in the sky, as that deal is now gone, but speculatively there is very little wrong with what Heyman was saying in that radio interview.

You are correct that ECW has little influence on WWE right now (aside from watered down gimmick matches), because its a very different time. ECW certainly influenced WWE in the height of its most successful era.

Your initial question was 'who does hardcore wrestling these days?' I believe you called it the lowest form of wrestling, yet TNA have an entire PPV dedicated to it. And WWE have an extreme rules PPV which is a little watered down, but the 2011 edition has been generally recognised as the best PPV so far this year, go figure.

Are we happy now?

As for who i'm calling 'boy', that would be you sunshine

Punk in TNA would work

The question is how much would Punks arrival affect both WWE/TNA ratings??????

Yeah, i'd not really considered that aspect, considering the general divide of crowds either being with John Cena or with CM punk in WWE. which pretty much represents most of the audience over 16. Then a high profile switch could result in a lot of people following punk. very interesting!

I know its all very IF at the moment, but in so many ways Punk is wasted in WWE, and i just don't think they realise what a valuable asset they have. As much as i'd love to see a Punk/Austin feud, i'd equally love to see a Punk/Angle feud.

I don't think Punk is going to TNA.

Well no, probably not, but completely speculatively, what a fantastic acquisition that would be for TNA. There are plenty of superstars in WWE who aren't reaching their potential. If TNA could get the consistency right to become attractive enough to entice some of those guys over it would be great.

But sadly in this case i agree, i think punk is probably unlikely to sign, even if he does leave WWE

to smarks maybe but traditional wrestling fans hate it. There is a lot of suspension of disbelief that goes into watching wrestling. Spot monkeys dont even go through the effort of selling the moves. How can that be anything but bad for the industry

I think CM Punk will be like Jericho and take some time off and return to WWE.

Biggest attraction? The biggest stars in the history of Wrestling all knew how to work. Rock, Austin, Hogan, Thesz, Flair, Michaels, Bret.

No doubt some became popular but the vast majority of the biggest weren't spot monkeys. They were guys who could work.

Being a spot monkey will only get you so far. Then you either learn how to work or you take time off/retire due to injuries.

Given Punk has been there already, I'd find it unlikely. As said, he'll have time off, probably with his girlfriend, and then get back on the road when his money is running low.

That was back when the cruisers were still a sideshow attraction. Now they're at the forefront of wrestling in every brand. Sure, it'll cut your career a good few years, but the guys doing that now will be added to that list of "biggest stars in the history of wrestling" in years to come.


That's baloney. Kids love the current product of high-flying stuff. A lot of us in here have been on about AJ Styles flying around. His high-risk moves from Slammiversary as a prime example.

Times have changed. The moves these days are less impactful and more entertaining and athletic, which is what looks better. Traditional wrestling fans won't like it, sure, but that's being stuck in their own ways. Like I said, wrestling has progressed to the point where even the best technical wrestlers do high-risk moves because that's what sells tickets.

I really don't want to get dragged in to the "armchair booker" debates but it seems to me that the goal of any wrestling company is to stay FRESH. It means a mix of styles: old school & new, more violent and less violent, serious and comedic. Each company has its overall tone but as long as content stays within certain boundaries (which is why I hate the pure fiction of the zombie-witch-lesbo-reincarnation Winter thing), then it's all good! It's usually when companies get stale (either in the ring or behind the scenes) that things start to go wrong and viewers can always sense it. But to constantly second-guess wrestling rather than just sit down, enjoy and have a good laugh seems a profound waste of energy and wholly missing the point. These guys have to make 1+ show a week, every week, 52 weeks of the year. It's hard creatively and it's hard physically. Kudos to everyone involved!

No they're not. Rey is now a WWE worker and toned down heavily from his early days, due to the company he works for and that he's banged up badly. Bourne is a prelim guy and Sin Cara is tucked away on Smackdown so he can learn WWE style.

TNA cruiseweight guys are mostly in the X division and treated as idiots.



There's a difference between doing high flying in a natural context to a match and just doing idiot spots. Even AJ has became more of a worker than the spotfest guy he was a few years ago.


There are still alot of impactful moves. Guys are wrestling an fast paced style more than any era.

Technical guys like Angle and Bryan have always had some high risk about them, the case being that they do them within the context of a match where it fits in with the story of the match and not just because the fans are getting bored.

And there are plenty in TNA who aren't reaching their potential. CM Punk was one of them back in the day.

I can't imagine Punk would look at TNA as an improvement on his current position to be honest.

To be fair, this is an opinion, and neither one of us is going to concede to the others way of thinking. I bought my tickets for January hoping to see a high-paced cruiser show that'll make me stand up and say "wow" with technical wrestling matches alongside them. That's what entertains me these days. Obviously it doesn't you. Which beggars belief as to why you're watching TNA...


Rey's a sell-out, to me. He's toned down because he's constantly injured, even now that he's a "WWE Wrestler" and not flipping around anymore. I've only briefly seen Bourne, but he looks excellent, and Sin Cara's a botch artist. If he's been sent to Smackdown to wrestle, it's because he WANTS to be a spot-monkey, but clearly doesn't have the consistency required.


They shouldn't be, but they are. They could easily be at the top of the card if they were used correctly.


He was still an excellent technical wrestler all those years ago. Even in WCW, he had an great array of technical moves. And to this day, he still does 450-splashes, etc.


There are, but instead of the amount of impactful moves you'd see in a 90's Rock vs. Triple H match, we're in the 21st Century, where it's faster. As with most sports, advances are made, usually in speed, because the human species is evolving that way.


A technical wrestling match doesn't bore some fans. Me included. Neither does a cruiser-weight bout. But you aren't going to get a standing ovation from reversing a hammerlock these days as you would if you perform a top-rope plancha to the floor.

It's not an opinion. It's a fact. No promotion pushes cruiseweights properly in the top spot, which was your argument before.

I've got nothing against good cruiseweight action, as long as it's not a million spots for the sake of it.



A sellout? He's a wrestler whose learned to work WWE style which has increased his longevity. Sin Cara's on Smackdown because he has little experience in working WWE Style, so was put on Smackdown so they can edit his matches.



Nah not really. They should have a place higher up the card, but no one is going to buy Kendrick etc. as a Main eventer.


AJ was a spot guy, but has toned it down over the years as he's learned to work and to look after his body.



Well what we have right now is a bunch of indie guys trying a high flying crazy style in order to try and get picked up by WWE, except WWE isn't looking for that.


Technical wrestling doesn't have to be boring, it's just some fans are uneducated and some young wrestlers don't know how to control the crowd in a match.

As for a standing ovation for a hammerlock, it depends on the crowd. I've seen Zeke Jackson get huge cheers for doing 6 bodyslams in a row. As is with all of wrestling, context is everything.

If you like spotfest type stuff, have you watched DragonGate?

Watching on delay but this is the best Impact in ages!

Sting and Hogan's exchange in the office was brilliant.

Heaven forbid Rey might actually want to make some money instead of ending up like Kenta Kobayashi or Necro Butcher, with a wrecked body and nothing to show for it.

At this point anyone sane in Rey's shoes would be trying to make the most money and take as little damage as possible, because at the end of the day, nobody else cares that, for example, Dynamite Kid is in a wheelchair and doesn't have a pot to piss in.

It was. I read some people saying it was OTT but I thought it was fantastic. Great to see some passion from Sting.

I agree I was saying this while watching it. I normally fall asleep during an IMPACT Wrestling show but tonight I thought it was great to watch.

Part of me wishes you had fallen asleep during, and been woken up by Stings psychotic laugh.

Really good show I thought. The three-way was superb, RVD/Joe was good too. And the "main event" of Jarrett and Angle? Well, apart from no sane person in a legitimate fight putting an armbar on their opponent, that was very cool too.