I've noticed something. When selling their Hi-MD Players, Sony claim the 1GB Hi-MD discs used can hold 45 CD's worth of music.

However, when selling the actual 1GB discs, they claim the discs can store 13.5 hours of music.

But, 45 CD's x 80minutes per CD = 3600mins = 60 Hrs!

Anyone know whether these discs hold 13.5 hrs or 60 hrs of music?

Cheers.

You will get 13 hours of music on one standard 80-minute MiniDisc with ATRAC3plus compression. Or 45 hours on a HI-MD (1Gb) disc.

This is if tracks are encoded at 48kbps; i.e. poor sound quality. An old marketing ploy.

If you aim for OK sound quality encoded at 128 kbps you would get about 17 hours music.For comparison Apple advertise their 20gb ipod as holding 5,000 songs. This is calculated using 4 minute songs encoded at 128kbps.

That still not 60 Hrs (45 CD's x 80 mins per CD).

EDIT: Everything Goes, when you said 45 hrs, did you mean 45 CD's?
That would agree with what Nevada is saying.

Its 45 hours.

Everything Goes says one thing, Nevada says another thing, and Sony say 2 different things! I'm confused.

1) Sony definitely say 13.5 hrs on 1GB disc, and also say 45 CD's on 1GB disc = 60 hrs.

2) Everything Goes says 45 HRS on 1GB (1000MB, or is it 1024MB?) disc and 13.5 hrs on Standard MD (700MB disc). This doesn't add up. (13.5hrs/700MB) x 1000MB = ~20HRS.

3) Nevada says it is 45 CD's, but only at very high compression.

Nevada is the only one making sense here.

Thanks for the input though guys, I do appreciate it. Guess I'll have to do some more research.
Seven

Here is the press release from Sony about HI-MD:

http://news.sel.sony.com/pressrelease/4270

"With ATRAC3plus compression, more audio files can be burned to Hi-MD media or for that matter, to a standard MiniDisc. Music can be compressed to 132, 105, 66, 64 or 48 kbps (kilobits per second), so you can store more music or record at higher fidelity. By compressing at 48 kbps, users can enjoy 45 hours of music on one Hi-MD disc or 13 hours of music on one standard, 80-minute MiniDisc."

As you can see it states 45 Hours of music at 48kbps.

Here is a FAQ on HI-MD also stating the same fact:

http://www.minidisc.org/hi-md_faq.html

Also Nevada was not disagreeing with me he was merely pointing out that this would be at 48Kbps.

Thanks for the links. I got the 13.5 hrs on 80min MD and 45 hrs on Hi-MD bit, it's just that some of the info on Hi-MD is a bit mixed up, so I was left a little confused. Argos, QED-UK and AskDirect and many more companies all state that the Hi-MD players they sell hold 45 CDS worth of music. The packaging on Sony Hi-MD 3 packs are to blame aswell. They clearly state that they are Hi-MD, but also state they can hold 13.5 hrs of music and have the number 80 in the corner of the packaginhg. The info you provided me with leads me to believe that these discs are not 1GB Hi-MD but Hi-MD versions of the Standard 80min MD (a standard MD, formatted to Hi-MD). They cost a fiver for a three pack. Look them up on Yahoo or Google, and read what the packaging says (it's the one with the gold coloured packaging).

Yes, but when I asked Nevada why Sony say Hi-MD can hold 45 CDS worth of music, this is what she/he said
So in effect, Nevada agreed that Hi-MD's hold 45 CDS worth not HRS of music.

I guess this is Sony's fault, along with the companies selling Hi-MD players. Miscommunication rather than misinformation. They probably assume that the average person has of 1 HRS worth of music on their CD instead of exactly 74/80 mins. Maybe because most commercial album CD's have about an hrs music on them.

Thanks again to you both! You got it straight from the horses mouth Everything Goes; Sony (well, their website anyways).

One final thing though. The second link you provided states that Sony increased capacity on the existing Minidisc to 305MB.

I used to think that a standard 80min MD holds 700MB, just like an 80min recordable CD. But reading this made me think that MD uses a different method to CDR to hold the same amount of music - 80min. But the website then states that more capacity was achieved by changing the from 'EFM' format, the same method used by CD's, to another format.

Don't standard 80min MD's have a capacity of 700MB like an 80min CDR? The website says it's 160MB/177MB, so how can MD use the same method as CD's but store 80min on a 160MB/177MB disc?
Last edited by Seven : 29-07-2004 at 17:59

A standard 80 min MD will hold 177Mb on a standard MD player.
A standard 80 Min MD formated in a HD-MD player will hold 305Mb.
A HD-MD Disc will hold 1Gb.

You are confused about the bit rates I think. MD uses compression, the lower the bit rate the higher amount of audio the disc can handle but the sound quality will be lower. All MD formats use compression to squeeze the sound on to a MD. A standard audio CD is not compressed and offers the highest sound quality.

Cheers for that.
It's not that I'm confused about the bitrates, I just didn't know that MD formats use compression. I always just assumed that they don't. I should have realised really, as MD's are smaller in appearance that CD's, so the capacity's bound to be diferent! Guess I shouldn't assume things.
I know the Hi-MD capacities from the links you provided, it's just the standard MD having 177MB is what got me thinking.
Thanks again for clearing things up!
Are in the industry/selling Hi-MD's, or are you like me and like to look into new technology?

I had an old MD player but, I recently got an ipod. much better than MD or hi-md.

Im not in the industry but like keeping up to date with technolgy and look at future technologies as well. Mind you I do find myself going into shops and knowing more about the technolgy than the person selling it


Steve5424

Whilst ipods may have greater capacity they are very over priced £300 for 20Gb (typical Apple) also that nasty old battery problem where it should last just over a year and cost £40 for a replacement A HD-MD costs £150 which still represents good value for money though the 1Gb discs are hard to find at the moment.

Whilst the hard drive and memory based systems will take over in the future there is still a few years left in MD.

I get the same problem! Sometimes I'll ask about more details on a certain function, and they'll tell me that the product doesn't even HAVE that particular function, when I KNOW that it does. I end up finding out for myself on websites and forums like this.

This link may also help you work out the differant compression rates and how many hours you get on a disc.
http://www.sony.net/Products/Hi-MD/capacity.html#3

Also in the section above it explains about the 45 cds...

" Calculated based on 1 CD = 60 minutes, and recorded with ATRAC3plus 48kbps."

I been looking at Hi-MD for a few weeks now. I can't wait for the MZ-NH900S to come out. It looks like a lovely bit of kit.

Argos are selling them at £1.33 each.

I have been informed in another forum that the MDs are just normal ones repackaged. The givaway is the amount of hours written in the picture. Take a close look.

Gaz.

Thanks, but I don't need to 'work out' compression rates and how many hours you can get on a disc. I was simply confused by the conflicting info and was asking for clarification.

That's what I said previously, to quote myself:

Thanks for the input thoough.

Really ???

http://www.argos.co.uk/webapp/wcs/st...&go.x=1&go.y=4

Yes, going back to the compression chart link i sent in my last post. The normal MDs re-formated for HI-MD are about 13 hours 30 mins each. Argos text states that amount of time. It's a re-package of normal MDs. Looks like we will all have to be careful of this. Unless it says 1GB on the package then i won't be buying them.

It says 80 (mins) at the top corner if it's a re-packaged standard MD pack. I pointed this out earlier, and I think someone else might've mentioned it.

In that case, you might as well just use standard existing discs.

i bought a top of the range MD from argos for £110(in clearance) in stead of stumping up another £40 for hi-MD one which is the bottom of the range model!

HI-MD Walkmans are a lot cheaper to buy on the internet. See link below.

http://www.qed-uk.com/?i=114Ezk1mVYw...bp=nh600s&bi=0

Gaz.

Cheapest I've seen, which includes VAT and delivery is at this link:

http://www.be-direct.co.uk/productDetails.asp?id=15747

Regarding the pack of three minidiscs on sale at Argos, I spoke to a Sony customer rep this afternoon who confirmed that they were repackaged standard 80 minute minidiscs. He also said that the Hi-MD sold beyond Sony's expectations in the US and therefore caused a shortage of the 1Gb discs. Meanwhile we'll have to wait for stocks to arrive from Japan.

Has anyone seen the 1GB disks for sale on any UK Internet sites?

The only place I've been able to find is this one:
http://www.avland.co.uk/sony/hmd1g/hmd1g.htm

They’re priced at £6, however that store only accepts minimum of £20 orders. I only need one, so I don't really want to buy four to push the order over 20 quid.