HiFi Speaker wires

Avalon Sky · 25-01-2011, 18:12

Hello

I have a Sharp Hi-Fi system and have noticed that the wires that connect the speakers to the unit have become a bit tatty and the plastic coating is splitting in places. I therefore need to replace them but am not sure what ask for at the electrical shop. Are they all pretty much the same? The system is about 10 years old

Thanks for any advice

Chris Frost · 25-01-2011, 18:53

The stuff that you have at the moment will be a fairly thin cable often referred to as "bell wire" (as in the stuff used to wire up a door bell).

Bell wire is just about the cheapest and nastiest way to get a signal from one place to the next. It's not really the thing for a music system... Even a very cheap system deserves something better; and it doesn't need to cost a lot to get something substantially better.

Go on to Ebay and put this in the search bar Loudspeaker Speaker Cable Lead OFC 2X 0.40 MM² 50Mtr

It's about the right size for the connectors on your music system. It's oxygen free so won't tarnish as quick as cheap bell wire. At £12.99 it ain't gonna break the bank; and who knows, your system might even sound a bit better too.

Avalon Sky · 25-01-2011, 19:10

Excellent! Thanks very much, Chris

Richard46 · 25-01-2011, 19:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

The stuff that you have at the moment will be a fairly thin cable often referred to as "bell wire" (as in the stuff used to wire up a door bell).

Bell wire is just about the cheapest and nastiest way to get a signal from one place to the next. It's not really the thing for a music system... Even a very cheap system deserves something better; and it doesn't need to cost a lot to get something substantially better.

Go on to Ebay and put this in the search bar Loudspeaker Speaker Cable Lead OFC 2X 0.40 MM² 50Mtr

It's about the right size for the connectors on your music system. It's oxygen free so won't tarnish as quick as cheap bell wire. At £12.99 it ain't gonna break the bank; and who knows, your system might even sound a bit better too.

But surely that is the price for 50 meters which the Op is never likely to use.

Would not some stuff bought by the meter be better value e.g.

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CASPEAK79.html

http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/index....oduct_id=30010

Just asking really as I may need some new speaker cable myself.

Avalon Sky · 25-01-2011, 20:02

Thanks, Richard.

Chris Frost · 25-01-2011, 20:12

Not really. That stuff I suggested is 26p a metre.. and that includes delivery. It's dirt cheap for what it is.

If you actually look up the listing it says he does other lengths. So if the thought of having eight quids worth of unused speaker cable in the house would give you sleepless nights then just buy a smaller roll. IMO it's really not worth the time and effort worrying about it.

call100 · 25-01-2011, 20:44

Get some cheap lighting flex for the speakers......Works just as well....

c4rv · 25-01-2011, 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by call100

Get some cheap lighting flex for the speakers......Works just as well....

funnily enough, just what I use. Got it for nothing from a left over lighting project my neighbour was doing.

Chris Frost · 25-01-2011, 23:35

Just out of interest I had a look at some 2-core flex prices to see just how much cheaper it would be...

B&Q - Tower 2-core round white flex (0.75mm2) - 10m - £6.98 [69p/m]

Screwfix - Tower 2-core round white flex (0.75mm2) - 50m - £10.80 [22p/m]

For the two above you've got to go fetch it - so add the cost of driving etc

Ebay - unspecified 2-core round white flex (0.75mm2) - 8m - £4.00 + £2.35 del = £6.35 [79p/m]

Ebay - Hi-Fi speaker cable - oxygen free (ofc) - 50m - £12.99 inc delivery [26p/m]

Maybe it's me... and a mains flex devotee can explain the benefit to me... but if I have to buy some cable rather than picking up some freebie leftovers... then I can either have some proper good quality speaker cable delivered to my door for 26p per metre> Or I can bodge it with some mains flex which isn't ofc so it goes all manky and tarnished... and I've got to go fetch it myself when petrol is £1.30/ltr ... but as long as I ignore the transport costs, and the time, and the fact that it isn't the right stuff, then I get to save 4p per metre. That is what's being suggested, isn't it?

lol

Winston_1 · 25-01-2011, 23:40

B & Q sell thin speaker wire.

The expensive oxygen free stuff is not necessary for the average system. The idea is to get the lowest impedance cable possible which improves the bass resonance. Only necessary for the top range systems.

DutyPaid · 25-01-2011, 23:53

Try and blag some offcuts from a hifi store. Most stores have a box or a bag full of odds and ends. If you don't need a lot then you could probably get it for free or for pennies.

c4rv · 26-01-2011, 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Frost

Maybe it's me... and a mains flex devotee can explain the benefit to me... but if I have to buy some cable rather than picking up some freebie leftovers... then I can either have some proper good quality speaker cable delivered to my door for 26p per metre> Or I can bodge it with some mains flex which isn't ofc so it goes all manky and tarnished... and I've got to go fetch it myself when petrol is £1.30/ltr ... but as long as I ignore the transport costs, and the time, and the fact that it isn't the right stuff, then I get to save 4p per metre. That is what's being suggested, isn't it?

lol

I don't understand why mains would go manky and tarnished ???

Anyway, suggesting OP can get some main offcut for nothing which is usually a lot easier to find then speaker wire off cut. If OP can't and hasn't go a screwfix or other discount electrical / building outlet place near by then order the speaker wire from ebay.

BTW, you can get 5m or 7m of similiar speaker wire from pound shop normally.

gomezz · 26-01-2011, 00:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4rv

I don't understand why mains would go manky and tarnished ???

Coz it is not oxygen-free innit? Oh, wait! It would also need to be laid in an oxygen-free environment too. Don't think that would make for a very pleasant listening experience.

c4rv · 26-01-2011, 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

Coz it is not oxygen-free innit? Oh, wait! It would also need to be laid in an oxygen-free environment too. Don't think that would make for a very pleasant listening experience.

So you are saying that main cable which would potentially cause a fire if it went 'manky and tarnished' is worse quality then your speaker cable ??? Sorry don't I don't buy that. In addition the main cable has 3 1/2 as much copper as the speaker cable.

As for quality, should OP care that much able quality, he should pop over to AVForums where main cables has repeatedly won blind listening tests against 'speaker cable' costing £20/m or more.

It main disadvantage is that its not flexible as multistrand speaker cable and due to thickness of other covering, twin core flex cable is more difficult to tuck neatly away.

Chris Frost · 26-01-2011, 00:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by gomezz

Coz it is not oxygen-free innit? Oh, wait! It would also need to be laid in an oxygen-free environment too. Don't think that would make for a very pleasant listening experience.

Lol, all right, point conceded.. I over egged it a bit for effect. Call it poetic license

The point is about diminishing returns. I'm all for saving a few quid where possible, but spending a load of time or driving miles to save a few pence on a bit of wire just strikes me as a false economy. Ah well, each to their own I suppose.

RobAnt · 26-01-2011, 07:04

Solid core mains cable is fine for most budget systems. I personally don't like multi-strand mains cable for HiFi applications, but so long as it has at least 20 strands it should be okay.

For years 79 strand QED (IIRCC) cable was de rigueur for the majority of budget HiFi systems. It was cheap, because it sold in huge quantities.

I use quad multi-strand hifi speaker cable now, which works well as I bi-wire my speakers to my integrated amp.

Very thin bell wire isn't very good at all, and it may damage your system. But if that's what was included in the original box then I would use like for like.

Nigel Goodwin · 26-01-2011, 08:51

[quote=Winston_1;47638310]B & Q sell thin speaker wire.

The expensive oxygen free stuff is not necessary for the average system. /QUOTE]

It's not necessary for ANY system, it's just an advertising scam.

c4rv · 26-01-2011, 10:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winston_1

The expensive oxygen free stuff is not necessary for the average system.

It's not necessary for ANY system, it's just an advertising scam.

Same as the mega expensive HDMI leads, not necassary for the average person running a cable a few feet from device to tv

Avalon Sky · 26-01-2011, 12:07

Thank you all for the advice, it is much appreciated.

Pemblechook · 26-01-2011, 12:35

Some mag did some test...Monster Cable v steel coathangers.. Nobody could tell the diff.

Steel not even being copper let alone oxygen free. A fool and his money......,..

I would use thickish twin mains flex.

gomezz · 26-01-2011, 13:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by c4rv

So you are saying that main cable which would potentially cause a fire if it went 'manky and tarnished' is worse quality then your speaker cable ???

I didn't think I needed to add a smilie to my obviously tongue in cheek comment.

DaveBTCC · 26-01-2011, 13:49

Wilkinsons sell mains cable and twin/earth by the metre, usually a lot cheaper than B&Q.

spiney2 · 26-01-2011, 14:14

Yeah, bell wire, or mains cable indeed (but far more expensive usually).

Such wires do have "real electrical properties" - ie, distributed impedence - but that's tiny, so ignore "audio pseudoscience".

Here's a decent article - if you're interested - which (correctly) says that speaker cables of course have some measurable effect, but it's usually negligable.

http://sound.westhost.com/cable-z.htm

chrisjr · 26-01-2011, 14:25

More years ago than I am going to admit to on a public forum

I used to read various HiFi mags. In one of them there was an article about some HiFi show somewhere. The journalist in question reported overhearing a conversation between two guys looking inside some bit of kit that was on display with the lid off.

One guy apparently turned to the other and said it will sound crap because it had the wrong colour wire inside! The journalist wasn't too sure if he was joking or not but suspected he was deadly serious.

So on that logic if you use mains cable the electrons will flow through the brown wire differently to the blue wire so you will screw up the sound if you use the wrong colour for +ve

spiney2 · 26-01-2011, 14:29

There's repeated pseudoscience claims, and these never show up in double blind tests.

25-01-2011, 18:12	#1
Avalon Sky Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 191	HiFi Speaker wires Hello I have a Sharp Hi-Fi system and have noticed that the wires that connect the speakers to the unit have become a bit tatty and the plastic coating is splitting in places. I therefore need to replace them but am not sure what ask for at the electrical shop. Are they all pretty much the same? The system is about 10 years old Thanks for any advice

25-01-2011, 23:35	#9
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	Just out of interest I had a look at some 2-core flex prices to see just how much cheaper it would be... B&Q - Tower 2-core round white flex (0.75mm2) - 10m - £6.98 [69p/m] Screwfix - Tower 2-core round white flex (0.75mm2) - 50m - £10.80 [22p/m] For the two above you've got to go fetch it - so add the cost of driving etc Ebay - unspecified 2-core round white flex (0.75mm2) - 8m - £4.00 + £2.35 del = £6.35 [79p/m] Ebay - Hi-Fi speaker cable - oxygen free (ofc) - 50m - £12.99 inc delivery [26p/m] Maybe it's me... and a mains flex devotee can explain the benefit to me... but if I have to buy some cable rather than picking up some freebie leftovers... then I can either have some proper good quality speaker cable delivered to my door for 26p per metre> Or I can bodge it with some mains flex which isn't ofc so it goes all manky and tarnished... and I've got to go fetch it myself when petrol is £1.30/ltr ... but as long as I ignore the transport costs, and the time, and the fact that it isn't the right stuff, then I get to save 4p per metre. That is what's being suggested, isn't it? lol

25-01-2011, 18:53	#2
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	The stuff that you have at the moment will be a fairly thin cable often referred to as "bell wire" (as in the stuff used to wire up a door bell). Bell wire is just about the cheapest and nastiest way to get a signal from one place to the next. It's not really the thing for a music system... Even a very cheap system deserves something better; and it doesn't need to cost a lot to get something substantially better. Go on to Ebay and put this in the search bar Loudspeaker Speaker Cable Lead OFC 2X 0.40 MM² 50Mtr It's about the right size for the connectors on your music system. It's oxygen free so won't tarnish as quick as cheap bell wire. At £12.99 it ain't gonna break the bank; and who knows, your system might even sound a bit better too.

25-01-2011, 19:10	#3
Avalon Sky Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 191	Excellent! Thanks very much, Chris

25-01-2011, 19:22	#4
Richard46 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: London Posts: 41,718	Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Frost The stuff that you have at the moment will be a fairly thin cable often referred to as "bell wire" (as in the stuff used to wire up a door bell). Bell wire is just about the cheapest and nastiest way to get a signal from one place to the next. It's not really the thing for a music system... Even a very cheap system deserves something better; and it doesn't need to cost a lot to get something substantially better. Go on to Ebay and put this in the search bar Loudspeaker Speaker Cable Lead OFC 2X 0.40 MM² 50Mtr It's about the right size for the connectors on your music system. It's oxygen free so won't tarnish as quick as cheap bell wire. At £12.99 it ain't gonna break the bank; and who knows, your system might even sound a bit better too. But surely that is the price for 50 meters which the Op is never likely to use. Would not some stuff bought by the meter be better value e.g. http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/CASPEAK79.html http://www.custom-cable.co.uk/index....oduct_id=30010 Just asking really as I may need some new speaker cable myself.

25-01-2011, 20:02	#5
Avalon Sky Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 191	Thanks, Richard.

25-01-2011, 20:12	#6
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	Not really. That stuff I suggested is 26p a metre.. and that includes delivery. It's dirt cheap for what it is. If you actually look up the listing it says he does other lengths. So if the thought of having eight quids worth of unused speaker cable in the house would give you sleepless nights then just buy a smaller roll. IMO it's really not worth the time and effort worrying about it.

25-01-2011, 20:44	#7
call100 Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 6,572	Get some cheap lighting flex for the speakers......Works just as well....

25-01-2011, 21:31	#8
c4rv Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Essex Posts: 16,218	Quote: Originally Posted by call100 Get some cheap lighting flex for the speakers......Works just as well.... funnily enough, just what I use. Got it for nothing from a left over lighting project my neighbour was doing.

25-01-2011, 23:40	#10
Winston_1 Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 5,008	B & Q sell thin speaker wire. The expensive oxygen free stuff is not necessary for the average system. The idea is to get the lowest impedance cable possible which improves the bass resonance. Only necessary for the top range systems.

25-01-2011, 23:53	#11
DutyPaid Guest Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 445	Try and blag some offcuts from a hifi store. Most stores have a box or a bag full of odds and ends. If you don't need a lot then you could probably get it for free or for pennies.

26-01-2011, 00:02	#12
c4rv Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Essex Posts: 16,218	Quote: Originally Posted by Chris Frost Maybe it's me... and a mains flex devotee can explain the benefit to me... but if I have to buy some cable rather than picking up some freebie leftovers... then I can either have some proper good quality speaker cable delivered to my door for 26p per metre> Or I can bodge it with some mains flex which isn't ofc so it goes all manky and tarnished... and I've got to go fetch it myself when petrol is £1.30/ltr ... but as long as I ignore the transport costs, and the time, and the fact that it isn't the right stuff, then I get to save 4p per metre. That is what's being suggested, isn't it? lol I don't understand why mains would go manky and tarnished ??? Anyway, suggesting OP can get some main offcut for nothing which is usually a lot easier to find then speaker wire off cut. If OP can't and hasn't go a screwfix or other discount electrical / building outlet place near by then order the speaker wire from ebay. BTW, you can get 5m or 7m of similiar speaker wire from pound shop normally.

26-01-2011, 00:10	#13
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	Quote: Originally Posted by c4rv I don't understand why mains would go manky and tarnished ??? Coz it is not oxygen-free innit? Oh, wait! It would also need to be laid in an oxygen-free environment too. Don't think that would make for a very pleasant listening experience.

26-01-2011, 00:48	#14
c4rv Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Essex Posts: 16,218	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz Coz it is not oxygen-free innit? Oh, wait! It would also need to be laid in an oxygen-free environment too. Don't think that would make for a very pleasant listening experience. So you are saying that main cable which would potentially cause a fire if it went 'manky and tarnished' is worse quality then your speaker cable ??? Sorry don't I don't buy that. In addition the main cable has 3 1/2 as much copper as the speaker cable. As for quality, should OP care that much able quality, he should pop over to AVForums where main cables has repeatedly won blind listening tests against 'speaker cable' costing £20/m or more. It main disadvantage is that its not flexible as multistrand speaker cable and due to thickness of other covering, twin core flex cable is more difficult to tuck neatly away.

26-01-2011, 00:51	#15
Chris Frost Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Cheshire Posts: 6,462	Quote: Originally Posted by gomezz Coz it is not oxygen-free innit? Oh, wait! It would also need to be laid in an oxygen-free environment too. Don't think that would make for a very pleasant listening experience. Lol, all right, point conceded.. I over egged it a bit for effect. Call it poetic license The point is about diminishing returns. I'm all for saving a few quid where possible, but spending a load of time or driving miles to save a few pence on a bit of wire just strikes me as a false economy. Ah well, each to their own I suppose.

26-01-2011, 07:04	#16
RobAnt Forum Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: South West Posts: 10,218	Solid core mains cable is fine for most budget systems. I personally don't like multi-strand mains cable for HiFi applications, but so long as it has at least 20 strands it should be okay. For years 79 strand QED (IIRCC) cable was de rigueur for the majority of budget HiFi systems. It was cheap, because it sold in huge quantities. I use quad multi-strand hifi speaker cable now, which works well as I bi-wire my speakers to my integrated amp. Very thin bell wire isn't very good at all, and it may damage your system. But if that's what was included in the original box then I would use like for like.

26-01-2011, 08:51	#17
Nigel Goodwin Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: North Derbyshire Posts: 41,789	[quote=Winston_1;47638310]B & Q sell thin speaker wire. The expensive oxygen free stuff is not necessary for the average system. /QUOTE] It's not necessary for ANY system, it's just an advertising scam.

26-01-2011, 10:34	#18
c4rv Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Essex Posts: 16,218	Quote: Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin Quote: Originally Posted by Winston_1 The expensive oxygen free stuff is not necessary for the average system. It's not necessary for ANY system, it's just an advertising scam. Same as the mega expensive HDMI leads, not necassary for the average person running a cable a few feet from device to tv

26-01-2011, 12:07	#19
Avalon Sky Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 191	Thank you all for the advice, it is much appreciated.

26-01-2011, 12:35	#20
Pemblechook Forum Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: North Wales..Near Chester, UK Posts: 2,028	Some mag did some test...Monster Cable v steel coathangers.. Nobody could tell the diff. Steel not even being copper let alone oxygen free. A fool and his money......,.. I would use thickish twin mains flex.

26-01-2011, 13:27	#21
gomezz Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Buckingham Posts: 28,590	Quote: Originally Posted by c4rv So you are saying that main cable which would potentially cause a fire if it went 'manky and tarnished' is worse quality then your speaker cable ??? I didn't think I needed to add a smilie to my obviously tongue in cheek comment.

26-01-2011, 13:49	#22
DaveBTCC Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 904	Wilkinsons sell mains cable and twin/earth by the metre, usually a lot cheaper than B&Q.

DS Forums

HiFi Speaker wires

26-01-2011, 14:14	#23
spiney2 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 24,123	Yeah, bell wire, or mains cable indeed (but far more expensive usually). Such wires do have "real electrical properties" - ie, distributed impedence - but that's tiny, so ignore "audio pseudoscience". Here's a decent article - if you're interested - which (correctly) says that speaker cables of course have some measurable effect, but it's usually negligable. http://sound.westhost.com/cable-z.htm

26-01-2011, 14:25	#24
chrisjr Forum Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Reading Posts: 27,916	More years ago than I am going to admit to on a public forum I used to read various HiFi mags. In one of them there was an article about some HiFi show somewhere. The journalist in question reported overhearing a conversation between two guys looking inside some bit of kit that was on display with the lid off. One guy apparently turned to the other and said it will sound crap because it had the wrong colour wire inside! The journalist wasn't too sure if he was joking or not but suspected he was deadly serious. So on that logic if you use mains cable the electrons will flow through the brown wire differently to the blue wire so you will screw up the sound if you use the wrong colour for +ve

26-01-2011, 14:29	#25
spiney2 Forum Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 24,123	There's repeated pseudoscience claims, and these never show up in double blind tests.