[West Briton]

Originally Posted by Nick1966

Be interesting to see what would happen if the Republic of Ireland decided to leave the Common Travel Area, and instead join the passport free Schengen Zone. There'd be fun and games at the NI / ROI border.

You've answered your own question. The whole point of the Common Travel Area is that 1. Under the Ireland Act 1949 citizens of the Republic of Ireland are specifically not foreigners in the United Kingdom and 2. The Irish/Northern Ireland border is impossible to seal off as it passes through fields in a fairly random way. Even at the height of the troubles it could never be fully sealed off.

[West Briton]

Originally Posted by Nick1966

Depends what you mean by 'border'. A couple hundred metres from my home is the border between the London Boroughs of Hackey and Islington. There's scarcely any need for a checkpoint.

I've crossed the border between Mexico and the US, complete with checks, armed police and a wall.

Northern Ireland and Eire share a common land border. NI is part of the UK and Eire is a seperate sovereign state. At the moment, to travel into either Eire or the UK from the schengen area, you go through passport control. Sometimes twice: once leaving Schengen and once entering Eire or the UK. Now, if Eire/ROI were to join Schengen, I reckon there would need to be full blown border controls on the NI/Eire interface complete with passport checks and customs.

What is this "Eire" you speak of?

It's "Ireland" or the "Republic of Ireland". No one in the Republic, ever, uses "Eire" unless they are speaking in Gaelic.

[West Briton]

Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion

You should have to choose, is Ireland your country or Britain? Your an Irish citizen with an Irish passport or a British citizen with a British one, in my view. We should not allow people to be both.

The most you should be allowed is settlement. I don't see your problem. You are an Irish citizen with the right of settlement in the UK. If you become a British citizen you should have to give up your Irish citizenship, as you have emigrated and become British.

The idea that someone can become a British citizen and still think of themselves as Irish, is an insult to this country. If someone wants to be a British citizen and still call themselves Irish, then their ancestors should have remained in the UK and not declared independence.

Our government is too soft on who they allow to live here. Fortunately in Camerons speech in Davos, he said that unsustainable immigration, was one of the the governments inherited issues that it had to solve.

Too bad all the Random Fascist Guys on the Internet are too busy being keyboard warriors instead of MPs then.

[camer]

Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion

They are and dual citizenship should be abolished. Your either British or Irish, you can't be both.

I'm fed up of all these people that think they can have one foot in each country, they should be made to choose.

On the same basis why does the old flag of Ireland still remain in the union flag (St.Patricks cross). These people as you call them do not have one foot in each country, they live in N.I which is Irish and British in the same way that England or Scotland are British.

[ItJustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by camer

On the same basis why does the old flag of Ireland still remain in the union flag (St.Patricks cross). These people as you call them do not have one foot in each country, they live in N.I which is Irish and British in the same way that England or Scotland are British.

There is a huge difference between NI and the republic. NI is no different to Scotland, Wales and England. I am English and a British citizen.

Should England declare independence and the UK continue with the other countries for example, I would have to emigrate to the UK and not be able to have both an English and British passport in my view.

As NI is still in the union, there no reason to remove Ireland from the union flag. AS its been around for hundreds of years it would make sense to keep it the same and is not a strong argument.

[ItJustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by West Briton

Too bad all the Random Fascist Guys on the Internet are too busy being keyboard warriors instead of MPs then.

Is it fascist to ask non Britons to kindly make up their minds as to whether their serious about becoming British or not.

Many countries don't allow dual citizenship, because you are either genuine about being one of their citizens, or just an opportunist that wants the best of both worlds.

[GreatGodPan]

Originally Posted by West Briton

What is this "Eire" you speak of?

It's "Ireland" or the "Republic of Ireland". No one in the Republic, ever, uses "Eire" unless they are speaking in Gaelic.

They did actually.

It was known as Eire from 1937, when the Irish Constitution stated that the name of the state is "Eire" while the "Republic of Ireland" is merely a description of that state.

[camer]

Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion

There is a huge difference between NI and the republic. NI is no different to Scotland, Wales and England. I am English and a British citizen.

Should England declare independence and the UK continue with the other countries for example, I would have to emigrate to the UK and not be able to have both an English and British passport in my view.

As NI is still in the union, there no reason to remove Ireland from the union flag. AS its been around for hundreds of years it would make sense to keep it the same and is not a strong argument.

But Ireland has not been part of the union since 1922 so why retain the old Irish flag, St.Patricks cross is nothing to do with N.I and represents no countries or part of the union.

[camer]

Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion

Is it fascist to ask non Britons to kindly make up their minds as to whether their serious about becoming British or not.

Many countries don't allow dual citizenship, because you are either genuine about being one of their citizens, or just an opportunist that wants the best of both worlds.

Who are these non Britions that you speak of ?

[The Exiled Dub]

Originally Posted by GreatGodPan

They did actually.

It was known as Eire from 1937, when the Irish Constitution stated that the name of the state is "Eire" while the "Republic of Ireland" is merely a description of that state.

The name of the state is Éire when speaking in Irish, but Ireland when speaking in English. Some people in the UK think they should use Éire when speaking to Irish people, but nobody in Ireland uses it, not even in official government documents that are in English.

[camer]

Originally Posted by The Exiled Dub

The name of the state is Éire when speaking in Irish, but Ireland when speaking in English. Some people in the UK think they should use Éire when speaking to Irish people, but nobody in Ireland uses it, not even in official government documents that are in English.

Nor do they translate Dublin back to Blackpool
You would have to post as the "Exiled Black"

[snukr]

Originally Posted by MARTYM8

Wll the Irish are basically a nation of Celts - so they are the true Brits along with the Scots and Irish.

Its really the English (Anglo Saxons) who are originally from Germany, Holland and Denmark who are foreigners!

Celts originated in continental Europe so Scots, Welsh and Irish are Foreigners too.

I regard Irish people as foreign and as someone from Northern England now living down south, have far more in common with Southern English people than the Irish, Scots or Welsh.

[ItJustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by camer

Who are these non Britions that you speak of ?

Britons are people that live in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

People that live in the republic or Ireland are non Britons. They have their own nationality, passports and citizenship and are not entitled to have ours as well in some sort of one sided dual arrangement.

Should Northern Ireland reunite with the republic of Ireland then the same will apply to them.

Every on else in the world are non Britons as well.

Is that clear enough for you?

[Larry1971]

although The Rep of Ireland, is technicaly another country I don't really class the Irish, as foriegn certainly when it comes to football I tend to feel they are one of the home nations. Also if I went on holiday to Ireland I wouldn't feel like it's going to another country in the same way as say going to France.

[ItJustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by camer

But Ireland has not been part of the union since 1922 so why retain the old Irish flag, St.Patricks cross is nothing to do with N.I and represents no countries or part of the union.

Fine remove it. I can't give you an answer, I am not the British government. I imagine its like a partnership. If one partner sells their share to the other and leaves, they may retain the name, because it has become so embedded in the minds of their customers and their stationary etc. The other partner has no say or plays any part in the business.

Maybe it would cost a lot, to ask the entire world to change every representation of the Union Jack any where in the world. Is that what you want?

[camer]

Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion

Britons are people that live in England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland.

People that live in the republic or Ireland are non Britons. They have their own nationality, passports and citizenship and are not entitled to have ours as well in some sort of one sided dual arrangement.

Should Northern Ireland reunite with the republic of Ireland then the same will apply to them.

Every on else in the world are non Britons as well.

Is that clear enough for you?

I think you need to do a bit more research, loads of people who live all over the world and not only Ireland are british citizens and hold british passports, holding a british passport is not the sole right of anyone living in the u.k alone. The arrangement in Ireland is not one sided, a british citizen can obtain an irish passport just as easily as an irish citizen can obtain a british one. Would you also include in your non briton list all the indian, polish, pakastani etc etc people who live in Britian with british passports. You may not like the rules but thats the way things are. By the way I know of loads of english and scottish people who live in Ireland but they are still British and have the passports to prove it so your interpretation of nationality is null and void.
Is that clear enough for you?

[The Turk]

Originally Posted by 1066andallthat

As someone born in NE I see no similarities to the Irish.

I often felt a kindrid spirit with the Scots rather than southern England.

I suppose that's why I never describe myself as English.

I feel British, and then, if I must, European.

I certaintly don't regard myself as English which I think culturally is more of a southern softie, cricket village greens with warm beer and Eton fags, Wimbledon and Henley (i.e. a bit middle / upper middle class).

Is that what you really think of us southerners and the English in general? With a stereotypical view like that, its obvious you've never been to the south. You've certainly never been to Folkestone.

Me? Im not middle class, Im not a softie and I don't have a clue what the rules of cricket are. Im not into Tennis either, my favourite sport is football just like you 'tough' northerners, I prefer beer cold and Im as far removed from Eton and its culture as you are. Most of my friends and other people I know in Folkestone share most of those characteristics.

I guess in your eyes that makes me an anomally or even worse, a northerner. Well, I can assure you Im a southerner and I've never set foot in the north.

Remember, no matter what part of England you come from, we all have Anglo-Saxon, Roman and Norman blood. That means genetically at least you've got far more in common with the southern English than you do with most Scots.

If you don't feel English, that's a shame but I have to ask? Do you have a problem with England and if so, why?

[ItJustMyOpinion]

Originally Posted by camer

I think you need to do a bit more research, loads of people who live all over the world and not only Ireland are british citizens and hold british passports, holding a british passport is not the sole right of anyone living in the u.k alone.

But they are still Britons residing in a foreign country, they have not taken the nationality of another nation.

Originally Posted by camer

The arrangement in Ireland is not one sided, a british citizen can obtain an irish passport just as easily as an irish citizen can obtain a british one.

Another poster said Britain's needed an Irish ancestry to hold an Irish passport. Do Irish people need an English one?

Originally Posted by camer

Would you also include in your non briton list all the indian, polish, pakastani etc etc people who live in Britian with british passports.

If they are British citizens, with British passports, then they are no longer indian, polish, pakastani, they are British. My argument is that when you emigrate and take the citizenship of a new country, you are no longer a citizen of the old one. People want their cake and eat it and I find it insulting.

Originally Posted by camer

You may not like the rules but thats the way things are.

You are quite correct, I am just voicing the way I think things should be, I don't make the decisions. It will however effect how I vote and how I view people.

Originally Posted by camer

By the way I know of loads of english and scottish people who live in Ireland but they are still British and have the passports to prove it so your interpretation of nationality is null and void.
Is that clear enough for you?

They are not Irish citizens they are just foreigners residing in another country. They are not Irish.

[oldfogey101]

Originally Posted by 1066andallthat

southern softie, cricket village greens with warm beer and Eton fags, Wimbledon and Henley.

That sounds pretty accurate.

[The Exiled Dub]

Originally Posted by ItJustMyOpinion

Another poster said Britain's needed an Irish ancestry to hold an Irish passport. Do Irish people need an English one?

I have already pointed out in an earlier post that this in untrue. The rules for Irish people obtaining a British passport and British people obtaining an Irish passport are both the same. These are agreements that have been worked out with both countries.

[tanstaafl]

Foreign, but a special kind of foreigner. As I understand it they are free to enter and live in the UK and, I believe, they can vote in UK elections.

[The Exiled Dub]

Originally Posted by tanstaafl

Foreign, but a special kind of foreigner. As I understand it they are free to enter and live in the UK and, I believe, they can vote in UK elections.

This is correct. British people going to Ireland have the same rights.

[tanstaafl]

Originally Posted by The Exiled Dub

This is correct. British people going to Ireland have the same rights.

Is that why Gerry Adams can stand for election to the Dail?

[camer]

Originally Posted by tanstaafl

Is that why Gerry Adams can stand for election to the Dail?

Yep, he is dual nationality

[The Exiled Dub]

Originally Posted by tanstaafl

Is that why Gerry Adams can stand for election to the Dail?

No, Gerry Adams is from NI, and the situation is different there. As far as I know, everyone from there is entitled to dual citizenship if they so choose.