[tingramretro]

Originally Posted by adam_fransella

Plus, until the dawn of Youtube, only those who paid loadsamoney for it on E-Bay could see it - correct?

Unless they bought the VHS on its original release...

[Adam Kelleher]

Originally Posted by adam_fransella

Plus, until the dawn of Youtube, only those who paid loadsamoney for it on E-Bay could see it - correct?

Incorrect - it was released on VHS.

[adam_fransella]

Originally Posted by Adam Kelleher

Incorrect - it was released on VHS.

Yes, and then deleted not long afterwards - making it go for such high prices on E-Bay.

Expect "Shada" to really fly off the shelves, when it comes out on DVD...some time.

Until then, take a look at this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_yPKUWyXfg

[Adam Kelleher]

Top 5:

1. The Robots of Death
2. The Ribos Operation
3. The Brain of Morbius
4. The Sun Makers
5. Pyramids of Mars

Bottom 5:

1. The Invisible Enemy (worst)
2. The Invasion of Time
3. The Leisure Hive
4. Meglos
5. Full Circle

[TEDR]

Originally Posted by adam_fransella

What about Adric's deceased brother?

I appear to have wiped all recollection of the actual stories from my memory. But I am being this nasty to Adric mainly for the fun of the conversation — he's quite annoying but much less so than e.g. Mel. For T.Baker story ranking purposes, he has the bad luck to come along when everything's already gone a bit rubbish. Baker looks tired and is suddenly in a worse costume, the sets are suddenly bright and ugly and the actual plots have become a bit secondary. You're aware of the purpose of most of the characters, but the hand of the writer is a bit hard to ignore.

Actually, much of 80s Who is a bit like that with notable exceptions by Davison and (I know you don't agree, but I would argue) McCoy.

[smithers3162]

Wow, some amazing replies here. Horror of Famg rock?!! Cheap, inconsequential, crap looking monster, Leela..!! What more can I say...

Best

The Deadly Assassin
The Talons of Weng Chiang
City of Death
Pyramids of Mars
Genesis of the Daleks

Worst

Meglos
The Creature from the Pit
Nightmare of Eden
The Horns of Nimon
The Face of Evil

[adam_fransella]

To anyone here who has seen "Shada": what do you think of it?

[tingramretro]

Originally Posted by adam_fransella

To anyone here who has seen "Shada": what do you think of it?

Of the stuff that exists, the college stuff is amazing but Skagra's invisible ship is a bit daft. I think Professor Chronotis was a great character-nice that Adams was able to reuse him in Dirk Gently's Holistic Detective Agency.

I liked the audio version of Shada too, but Denis Carey is the definitive Chronotis.

[chuffnobbler]

BESTS: Full Circle, Robots of Death.
WORSTS: The Armageddon Factor, Underworld.

Originally Posted by adam_fransella

What about Adric's deceased brother?

Phwoar, quite frankly. Kate O'Mara was a lucky woman.

Originally Posted by adam_fransella

To anyone here who has seen "Shada": what do you think of it?

It's crap.

Douglas Adams himself once said people are only interested in it cos they've never seen it. It's to be released on DVD in due course, and I wonder how they'll tart it up. Tom's VHS links are a bit lacklustre.

Shada is really very poor. The Krargs are a parody of DW monsters (Mandrels are bad? You aint seen nothing yet). There's an awful lot of overacting from the scientists, and the Porter's reaction to the Prof's room disappearing is actually literally laughable. There's some quite fun stuff in Cambridge, but an awful lot of it is very poor.

It's probably a mercy is was never made as it would have been another rubbish "end of season, money run out" load of old nonsense that everyone would sniff at (as per Invasion of Time and Armageddon Factor).

[tingramretro]

I rather like the Mandrels. And, indeed, The Invasion of Time and The Armageddon Factor.

[JohnnyForget]

Top Five
1. City of Death
2. Deadly Assassin
3. Logopolis
4. Talons of Weng Chiang
5. Pyramids of Mars


Bottom Five
1. Creature From The Pit
2. Leisure Hive
3. Nightmare of Eden
4. Horns of Nimon
5. Armageddon Factor


I've seen "Shada" with Tom Baker narrating the un-made scenes and I really like it. It would definitely have made my Top Five had it been completed.

[daveyboy7472]

Originally Posted by adam_fransella

To anyone here who has seen "Shada": what do you think of it?

From what I've seen of it, it's quite good and from the scriptbook that came with the video release, it seems even better and it's a shame it wasn't completed. Thought the Baker-Ward onscreen chemisty was right at it's peak here and I love all that invisible spaceship stuff!

[BP4L]

I know it's not a shared opinion by many (proved here by it appearing in lots of Best lists and how high it come in the mighty 200) but I hate Pyramids of Mars!

[Black Guardian]

Best

Robots of Death
Talons
Terror of the Zygons
Pyramids of Mars
Genesis of the Daleks
City of Death
Deadly Assassin


Worst

Horns of Nimon
Underworld
Invasion of Time
Destiny of the Daleks
Power of Kroll
Meglos
Creature from the Pit

[nattoyaki]

- City of Death
- Genesis
- Talons
- Anything else with Romana II in it

I can only post as someone who was just old enough to start watching and following Doctor Who during Tom's 'reign', (Peter really should have been 'my' Doctor, as I saw and remember all of the stories, went to meet him as 'Doctor Who' etc, but Tom was just so magical). Also, I have not gone back and watched them all again.

The one that grabbed me the most at the time, and really started my love affair with Who, was City of Death. I only remember three things. The importance of the paintings, Scaroth taking his mask off (I've never been so amazed by anything I've seen on TV, ever!), and his spacecraft at the end. Astonishing.

Having gone back and seen it again (as well as a few others) I'm in no wonder as to why it grabbed me - even though I see an awful lot more in it now as an adult fan - it's sublime Doctor Who, unbeatable. And Duggan - tempted (although I've only just joined) to re-register under that name!

Genesis I'd missed and only came to in my teens on audiotape - but what power, an instant number 2 for me. (Bleach has - I pray he can be brought back on board - the power to bring something similar to the table given his performance as Davros imo, let's hope Moffatt has big plans here).

Talons I came to only last year via Blinkbox (think it is) and it could do with an edit (but what old stories in that format can't?), and a bit less haphazard buggering about between house and theatre, and particularly botched kidnappings and thefts, but it was otherwise everything I'd hoped it might be.

The other stories I either remember or have caught up on have all been below these (very high) standards, and many that were most fondly remembered (usually involving Romana and K9) seem mostly to have been fondly remembered due to...the lovely Romana and K9.

The only series I remember all of is Tom's last. Logopolis obviously was a huge deal, and a very deep shock, and so remembered as one of the all-time stories and, indeed, televisual events.

But there are many stories to catch up on still.

[DavetheScot]

My top 5 Tom Baker stories;

1. Pyramids of Mars
2. The Talons of Weng-Chiang
3. The Robots of Death
4. Genesis of the Daleks
5. The Ark in Space

Every one a stormer! It says a lot for how many great stories Tom made that not only is every one of these a real contender for best classic Who story, but so are other stories I've had to leave out!

My bottom 5;

1. Revenge of the Cybermen
2. Destiny of the Daleks
3. The Invasion of Time
4. Underworld
5. The Invisible Enemy

[gslam2]

Top 5
1 - Talons Of Weng Chiang
2 - Robots Of Death
3 - Image Of The Fendhal
4 - The Sunmakers
5 - The Ribos Operation

Horror Of Fang Rock and Stones Of Blood would be next.

Worst

1 - Meglos
2 - The Armageddon Factor
3 - Invasion Of Time
4 - Revenge Of The Cybermen
5 - The Android Invasion

[Tigger-Roo]

I like all of Tom's stories. Can't say I've seen one yet that I don't like. My favourite, of what I've seen Pyramids of Mars.

[adam_fransella]

Originally Posted by BP4L

I know it's not a shared opinion by many (proved here by it appearing in lots of Best lists and how high it come in the mighty 200) but I hate Pyramids of Mars!

Think you might just be in a minority, there.

[adam_fransella]

Originally Posted by JohnnyForget

[i]I've seen "Shada" with Tom Baker narrating the un-made scenes and I really like it. It would definitely have made my Top Five had it been completed.

Like it or loathe it, "Shada" has got to be the most criminally deleted of all VHS releases of DW.

[daveyboy7472]

Originally Posted by BP4L

I know it's not a shared opinion by many (proved here by it appearing in lots of Best lists and how high it come in the mighty 200) but I hate Pyramids of Mars!

Well I put Talons Of Weng-Chiang in my bottom five so you're not in a minority on putting popular stories as your worst....

Though Pyramid Of Mars was in my top 5 though!!!!

[CAMERA OBSCURA]

Tough to pick 5 out and out faves, but for me 3 out and out classics are

Talons Of Weng Chiang
Genesis of the Daleks
Horror At Fang Rock

After that , whilst I enjoy many of them I wouldn't put them in the same league as the 3 I've listed.

[gboy]

Best:

Robots of Death
Horror of Fang Rock
Seeds of Doom
Masque of Mandragora
Terror of the Zygons

Worst:

Meglos
Underworld
Invasion of Time
Revenge of the Cybermen
Invisible Enemy

[chuffnobbler]

In watched the first two eps of Talons last night. Bloody Hell, it's a good story. The dialogue and characterisation are outstanding.

[TEDR]

I've never seen Mask of Mandragora. I may have to get myself to an HMV.