Nokia possibly ditching Symbian?

Eejit · 02-02-2011, 23:33

Quote:

Apples first PDA, the Newton - that was definitely groundbreaking. It was the first truly usable touch screen PDA. The iPad is "just" another tablet - okay, its more popular and easier to use, but thats not groundbreaking.

The first tablet that actually properly works as a viable consumer product, sells in absolutely vast quantities, and completely relaunches the entire tablet sector? That's pretty groundbreaking.

And Google clearly agree, given the vast resources they are currently pouring in to try create a version of Android that can compete.

clonmult · 03-02-2011, 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eejit

The first tablet that actually properly works as a viable consumer product, sells in absolutely vast quantities, and completely relaunches the entire tablet sector? That's pretty groundbreaking.

And Google clearly agree, given the vast resources they are currently pouring in to try create a version of Android that can compete.

Thats not groundbreaking, at least not by the dictionary definition of the word. Not that such matters these days, words are frequently repurposed by people in all walks of life.

Runwaway commercial success without a doubt. Not groundbreaking.

alanwarwic · 03-02-2011, 15:26

Anyone can make anything from the use of 'viable'.

All tablets before it were of course made not viable, because of 'lack of flash'.
Pre launch Jobs(brilliantly?) mobilised an anti-flash campaign to make sales more viable.

sonyhamster · 03-02-2011, 15:31

I think Symbian has had its time and in terms of the needs of today, the Ovi store was far too restricted.

I think it will give way to the Android. Ironically, I think that Nokia will concentrate not so much on mobile phones, but its tablets - and more specifically, the Maemo.

alcockell · 04-02-2011, 05:40

As long as Meego kit is as open as my N900...

jim_uk · 04-02-2011, 09:48

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...d-Android.html

An interesting idea, they do need to do something pretty sharpish.

BT@home · 04-02-2011, 10:01

Really? why do you think they are so desperate to take on a platform that is not performing anything close to the one they already have ... and the R&D spend is just people not understanding the company and their technology. Nokia R&D also includes Networks division that accounts for close to half of that R&D spend ... on its own the Devices area is comparable to other mobile manufacturers......and they don;t have the patent portfolio that R&D brings in.

Anyway I don;t see anything like WM7 announcements happening.

scumble · 04-02-2011, 11:19

The truth about Apple lies somewhere in between 'sheer hype' and 'genius innovators'. They are genuine innovators in slick design and ergonomics, but much less so in technical aspects. There were plenty of media players before the 1st-gen iPod, plenty of tablets before the iPad

Apple's combination of high-pricing, speedy obsolescence, closed systems and surprising technical flaws* may still cause the company to stumble.

No question but Apple are marketing geniuses though. And the iPhone 3 is probably the most influential and successful handset ever.

Back to the OP. Nokia will definitely start making Android handsets at some stage, as it is a good fallback position, and development costs would be relatively low. If Meego doesn't come out soon, it may be still-born. I remember months ago attending an app developers' seminar (I'm not a developer), and a speaker comparing OS's told us forget about Windows 7. No matter how good it is, even if it comes preloaded with apps that allow free parking anywhere you like, and infinite e-money, it's too late, MS have missed the boat.`

I knew Nokia was in trouble when I noticed that their market share was falling in West Africa. Handsets are very important there, as in most countries there is hardly any landline network. Years ago, most people in Nigeria didn't believe a handset would work properly if it didn't have Nokia printed on the front. Now everyone wants to access the internet via their handset (few landlines, remember), and browsing is definitely not a Symbian strongpoint so far. i-Phones, 'a-phones' and Android handsets are all the rage in the cities, and Blackberries are also selling well because of their PIN system.

These are massive markets with high handset penetration. But anyone who can afford it wants a smartphone, and for whatever reason (size? looks? Symbian?) Nokia's N-series has not taken over from their dumbphones in the worldwide market.

If Windows 7 is as good an OS as some people have said, then Nokia/Microsoft might well help both of them. In which case, the future's not looking bright for Meego...

*iPhone 3 camera, iPhone 4 reception, iPad with no USB

alanwarwic · 04-02-2011, 17:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by scumble

The truth about Apple lies somewhere in between 'sheer hype' and 'genius innovators'.

Nokia does some fantastic phones and at incredible value too.

Is a brilliant £70 phone worse than a brilliant £500 phone.
Of course it is, but the £70 could still be the sensible choice for most.
Us customers no doubt would lose out if symbian went.

jim_uk · 04-02-2011, 19:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by BT@home

Really? why do you think they are so desperate to take on a platform that is not performing anything close to the one they already have ... and the R&D spend is just people not understanding the company and their technology. Nokia R&D also includes Networks division that accounts for close to half of that R&D spend ... on its own the Devices area is comparable to other mobile manufacturers......and they don;t have the patent portfolio that R&D brings in.

Anyway I don;t see anything like WM7 announcements happening.

I don't write for the Telegraph and I never said I agreed, I posted a link relevant to the discussion. Do you honestly think people will start buying Nokia against because they spent a lot on R&D? I dare say Microsoft spent a fortune developing Vista but that didn't stop it being garbage.

The fact is they do need to do something to halt the decline and they need to do it soon, There is no reason to think MeeGo will do any better than WM7, in fact Nokia being nonexistent in the US market puts it at a disadvantage from the off.

scumble · 05-02-2011, 08:34

Quote:

Nokia being nonexistent in the US market puts it at a disadvantage from the off.

Is this actually true? I can remember many US versions of old-school Nokias - e.g. 3360* Within the last couple of months different groups of friends of mine have returned from breaks in New York and Las Vegas, and both sets brought burners** back with them that they had bought to use in the US at local rates. Every single one that they showed me was a basic Nokia of one style or another.

If Nokia are truly unknown in the US higher-up in the market, then the MS recognition factor of WM7 would count heavily in its favour.

Quote:

Nokia does some fantastic phones and at incredible value too.

Is a brilliant £70 phone worse than a brilliant £500 phone.

Us customers no doubt would lose out if symbian went.

Nokia is not going to abandon the sub-£100 PAYG market, Symbian or not. If the phones are not smartphones, then the issue of Symbian or another OS isn't even relevant.

What I would like to know is, do the latest versions of Symbian give the quick, slick touchscreen experience that everyone wants? And is the browsing experience any better?

The more I think of app stores, SDKs, and the other supporting infrastructure, the more I think that Nokia will produce at least some Android handsets.to test the water.

*cheap basic phones that can be disposed of if necessary, beloved of drug dealers

**based on 3310. In another DS thread, this phone appeared on someone's list of Top Ten handsets of all time. Unbelievable.

spikejr · 06-02-2011, 18:40

Quote:

It's inevitable that Nokia will switch to Android.

Nokia make no money in supplying an OS.

They make their money on content and services.

Symbian gives them a platform to lock their customers to Ovi, in much the same way Apple tie their users to iTunes.

Quote:

Apple now takes over 50% of the profit in the entire mobile phone industry.

... on 4% of the sales, but Apple has only two phones, both around 500 quid.

Nokia sells many more phones under 50 quid than they do over 200 quid.

Nokia has to sell ten times as many handsets as Apple to make similar money.

alanwarwic · 06-02-2011, 19:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by scumble

Nokia is not going to abandon the sub-£100 PAYG market, Symbian or not. If the phones are not smartphones, then the issue of Symbian or another OS isn't even relevant.

£50 upwards are very much smartphones these days.

The iPhone 3GS is better than the £50 Nokia 5230 smartphone yet the Nokia has free Ovo GPS +maps and has a higher resolution screen.
Symbian certainly has some good stuff on too like BBC iplayer.

02-02-2011, 23:33	#26
Eejit Inactive Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 4,106	Quote: Originally Posted by clonmult Apples first PDA, the Newton - that was definitely groundbreaking. It was the first truly usable touch screen PDA. The iPad is "just" another tablet - okay, its more popular and easier to use, but thats not groundbreaking. The first tablet that actually properly works as a viable consumer product, sells in absolutely vast quantities, and completely relaunches the entire tablet sector? That's pretty groundbreaking. And Google clearly agree, given the vast resources they are currently pouring in to try create a version of Android that can compete.

03-02-2011, 14:14	#27
clonmult Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: UK Posts: 3,291	Quote: Originally Posted by Eejit The first tablet that actually properly works as a viable consumer product, sells in absolutely vast quantities, and completely relaunches the entire tablet sector? That's pretty groundbreaking. And Google clearly agree, given the vast resources they are currently pouring in to try create a version of Android that can compete. Thats not groundbreaking, at least not by the dictionary definition of the word. Not that such matters these days, words are frequently repurposed by people in all walks of life. Runwaway commercial success without a doubt. Not groundbreaking.

03-02-2011, 15:26	#28
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Anyone can make anything from the use of 'viable'. All tablets before it were of course made not viable, because of 'lack of flash'. Pre launch Jobs(brilliantly?) mobilised an anti-flash campaign to make sales more viable.

03-02-2011, 15:31	#29
sonyhamster Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 211	I think Symbian has had its time and in terms of the needs of today, the Ovi store was far too restricted. I think it will give way to the Android. Ironically, I think that Nokia will concentrate not so much on mobile phones, but its tablets - and more specifically, the Maemo.

04-02-2011, 05:40	#30
alcockell Forum Member Join Date: May 2008 Location: Reading, UK Posts: 23,357	As long as Meego kit is as open as my N900...

04-02-2011, 09:48	#31
jim_uk Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Watford Posts: 12,961	http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolog...d-Android.html An interesting idea, they do need to do something pretty sharpish.

04-02-2011, 10:01	#32
BT@home Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 1,911	Really? why do you think they are so desperate to take on a platform that is not performing anything close to the one they already have ... and the R&D spend is just people not understanding the company and their technology. Nokia R&D also includes Networks division that accounts for close to half of that R&D spend ... on its own the Devices area is comparable to other mobile manufacturers......and they don;t have the patent portfolio that R&D brings in. Anyway I don;t see anything like WM7 announcements happening.

04-02-2011, 11:19	#33
scumble Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 918	The truth about Apple lies somewhere in between 'sheer hype' and 'genius innovators'. They are genuine innovators in slick design and ergonomics, but much less so in technical aspects. There were plenty of media players before the 1st-gen iPod, plenty of tablets before the iPad Apple's combination of high-pricing, speedy obsolescence, closed systems and surprising technical flaws* may still cause the company to stumble. No question but Apple are marketing geniuses though. And the iPhone 3 is probably the most influential and successful handset ever. Back to the OP. Nokia will definitely start making Android handsets at some stage, as it is a good fallback position, and development costs would be relatively low. If Meego doesn't come out soon, it may be still-born. I remember months ago attending an app developers' seminar (I'm not a developer), and a speaker comparing OS's told us forget about Windows 7. No matter how good it is, even if it comes preloaded with apps that allow free parking anywhere you like, and infinite e-money, it's too late, MS have missed the boat.` I knew Nokia was in trouble when I noticed that their market share was falling in West Africa. Handsets are very important there, as in most countries there is hardly any landline network. Years ago, most people in Nigeria didn't believe a handset would work properly if it didn't have Nokia printed on the front. Now everyone wants to access the internet via their handset (few landlines, remember), and browsing is definitely not a Symbian strongpoint so far. i-Phones, 'a-phones' and Android handsets are all the rage in the cities, and Blackberries are also selling well because of their PIN system. These are massive markets with high handset penetration. But anyone who can afford it wants a smartphone, and for whatever reason (size? looks? Symbian?) Nokia's N-series has not taken over from their dumbphones in the worldwide market. If Windows 7 is as good an OS as some people have said, then Nokia/Microsoft might well help both of them. In which case, the future's not looking bright for Meego... *iPhone 3 camera, iPhone 4 reception, iPad with no USB

04-02-2011, 17:16	#34
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Quote: Originally Posted by scumble The truth about Apple lies somewhere in between 'sheer hype' and 'genius innovators'. Nokia does some fantastic phones and at incredible value too. Is a brilliant £70 phone worse than a brilliant £500 phone. Of course it is, but the £70 could still be the sensible choice for most. Us customers no doubt would lose out if symbian went.

04-02-2011, 19:18	#35
jim_uk Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Watford Posts: 12,961	Quote: Originally Posted by BT@home Really? why do you think they are so desperate to take on a platform that is not performing anything close to the one they already have ... and the R&D spend is just people not understanding the company and their technology. Nokia R&D also includes Networks division that accounts for close to half of that R&D spend ... on its own the Devices area is comparable to other mobile manufacturers......and they don;t have the patent portfolio that R&D brings in. Anyway I don;t see anything like WM7 announcements happening. I don't write for the Telegraph and I never said I agreed, I posted a link relevant to the discussion. Do you honestly think people will start buying Nokia against because they spent a lot on R&D? I dare say Microsoft spent a fortune developing Vista but that didn't stop it being garbage. The fact is they do need to do something to halt the decline and they need to do it soon, There is no reason to think MeeGo will do any better than WM7, in fact Nokia being nonexistent in the US market puts it at a disadvantage from the off.

05-02-2011, 08:34	#36
scumble Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 918	Quote: Nokia being nonexistent in the US market puts it at a disadvantage from the off. Is this actually true? I can remember many US versions of old-school Nokias - e.g. 3360* Within the last couple of months different groups of friends of mine have returned from breaks in New York and Las Vegas, and both sets brought burners** back with them that they had bought to use in the US at local rates. Every single one that they showed me was a basic Nokia of one style or another. If Nokia are truly unknown in the US higher-up in the market, then the MS recognition factor of WM7 would count heavily in its favour. Quote: Nokia does some fantastic phones and at incredible value too. Is a brilliant £70 phone worse than a brilliant £500 phone. Us customers no doubt would lose out if symbian went. Nokia is not going to abandon the sub-£100 PAYG market, Symbian or not. If the phones are not smartphones, then the issue of Symbian or another OS isn't even relevant. What I would like to know is, do the latest versions of Symbian give the quick, slick touchscreen experience that everyone wants? And is the browsing experience any better? The more I think of app stores, SDKs, and the other supporting infrastructure, the more I think that Nokia will produce at least some Android handsets.to test the water. cheap basic phones that can be disposed of if necessary, beloved of drug dealers *based on 3310. In another DS thread, this phone appeared on someone's list of Top Ten handsets of all time. Unbelievable.

06-02-2011, 18:40	#37
spikejr Forum Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Posts: 67	Quote: It's inevitable that Nokia will switch to Android. Nokia make no money in supplying an OS. They make their money on content and services. Symbian gives them a platform to lock their customers to Ovi, in much the same way Apple tie their users to iTunes. Quote: Apple now takes over 50% of the profit in the entire mobile phone industry. ... on 4% of the sales, but Apple has only two phones, both around 500 quid. Nokia sells many more phones under 50 quid than they do over 200 quid. Nokia has to sell ten times as many handsets as Apple to make similar money.

06-02-2011, 19:07	#38
alanwarwic Forum Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: the wild world web Posts: 28,132	Quote: Originally Posted by scumble Nokia is not going to abandon the sub-£100 PAYG market, Symbian or not. If the phones are not smartphones, then the issue of Symbian or another OS isn't even relevant. £50 upwards are very much smartphones these days. The iPhone 3GS is better than the £50 Nokia 5230 smartphone yet the Nokia has free Ovo GPS +maps and has a higher resolution screen. Symbian certainly has some good stuff on too like BBC iplayer.

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Nokia possibly ditching Symbian?