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So you think Jason was in the right against Karen?


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Old 07-02-2011, 13:07
summertime09
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I've just read through some of these threads - you seriously think Jason was in the right against Karen? She's an ice dancer - the only one who has danced on ice in pairs out of those four. Jason does make some good comments, which she has agreed with in the past.

How can anyone stand up for Jason? Karen is completely in the right. Jason would rather be malicious and make people feel like shit to ensure more seasons, more press and more money. There comes a point, and he way oversteps the mark.
Its a competition!!! do you think Johnson is there to be patronized or judged on the same level as the other contestants!!!! Karen is an example of what is wrong in our society, the mamby pamby brigade who cant say NO or cant tell the truth, idolize mediocrity.
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:33
wordfromthewise
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I don't think Karen was right to stand up and walk over to Jason to confront as losing one's temper is NEVER a good look.

What Jason said about Johnson wasn't particularly bad by his grotty,rude,impolite standards IMO but their have been other occaisions when he has been breathtakingly rude and more than deserving of the sack.

Unfortunately DOI is a bit weak as a show and the judging panel is particularly lacking so they are more dependent than they should be on a 'hate' figure but even so one with less charm would be hard to come by and I am sure I would be amongst many to rejoice if Mr Gardiner was sent packing.
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:35
ladygardener
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He is the pantomime baddie, neither him or Emma have any real knowledge of ice skating, he is there for the controversy, infact I think the producers probably sit down with him and write the script!
No he's there as a choreographer, Robin is there as the skater, although he was a solo skater not a pairs/ice dance skater, and Emma is there representing the general public.

And my opinion is that it would have been far better for Karen to have just stayed on her chair and ignored Jason. Getting up like she did and then not accepting his apology but arguing with him in the results show, only shows that she is as bad as him. Just because she's now dating Chris, doesn't mean she should be throwing her weight around.
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:37
happyendings
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jason did have a point..
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:43
ladygardener
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she has the expertise to take a dispassionate view of the contestants
Maybe she has, but the problem is she's too closely involved with them and doesn't take a dispassionate view. I think Thrombin (Julian) has summed up the situation very well.
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Old 07-02-2011, 13:45
The Swampster
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No he's there as a choreographer, Robin is there as the skater, although he was a solo skater not a pairs/ice dance skater, and Emma is there representing the general public.

And my opinion is that it would have been far better for Karen to have just stayed on her chair and ignored Jason. Getting up like she did and then not accepting his apology but arguing with him in the results show, only shows that she is as bad as him. Just because she's now dating Chris, doesn't mean she should be throwing her weight around.
Emma is there representing the general public? The general public is represented everytime someone picks up the phone and votes - they don't need Emma to represent them. In any case, her comments represent her opinions, not mine.
Much as I dislike him, I can see why Jason has a place on the panel - and when he tries, his comments can be sensible and constructive. Clearly Robin is an expert on skating, but IMO the third judge should either have been Nicky or Karen (or another professional skater), not Emma.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:18
Thrombin
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Emma is there representing the general public? The general public is represented everytime someone picks up the phone and votes - they don't need Emma to represent them. In any case, her comments represent her opinions, not mine.
Much as I dislike him, I can see why Jason has a place on the panel - and when he tries, his comments can be sensible and constructive. Clearly Robin is an expert on skating, but IMO the third judge should either have been Nicky or Karen (or another professional skater), not Emma.
To be fair, Emma isn't completely Joe public. She was a member of one of Britain's most successful girl bands which means she has a strong background in the performing arts which is part of what is being judged.

The fact that the general public might be able to identify with her more than with Jason or Robin doesn't hurt but it's not fair to say she has no knowledge of what it takes to provide an entertaining performance.

Regards

Julian
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:33
*Eileen*
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Karen probably shouldn't have reactred how she did, however I don't particularly blame her and think that Jason was completely out of order with his comments about her. Jason was 100% in the wrong and the only thing Karen did wrong was losing her rag when provoked by this odious little worm.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:39
The Swampster
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To be fair, Emma isn't completely Joe public. She was a member of one of Britain's most successful girl bands which means she has a strong background in the performing arts which is part of what is being judged.

The fact that the general public might be able to identify with her more than with Jason or Robin doesn't hurt but it's not fair to say she has no knowledge of what it takes to provide an entertaining performance.

Regards

Julian
It was a previous poster who claimed that Emma's function was to "represent the general public". My personal assumption was always that she was yet another "performance" judge, an aspect already covered by Jason and now ridiculously over represented in an "ice panel" that features only one skater out of three judges. Someone like Karen or Nicky should be able to judge performance as well as having a clear insight into the skating.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:41
Tiger Rose
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I've heard this a lot. Not just for DOI but also for Strictly and X-Factor.

Personally, I think it's nonsense.

You don't need to be technically proficient in something to be able to judge it's aesthetic or entertainment value.

If you assume that, then none of us watching at home have any business passing opinions about the skaters either!

Plus there's more than just the skating being judged here. There's also expressiveness, energy, body lines, choreography, posture, musical interpretation and rhythm.

Jason has formal training in Ballet and Dance, he has performed in numerous theatre productions and choreographed and produced many more. Check him out on Wikipedia and you'll find he's more than qualified to pass judgement on all of the aspects that he has been passing judgement on.

If this was just a figure skating competition then I might agree that he's not qualified but it's an ice dancing competition and that gives him just as good credentials as Robin who, being a figure skater, is probably not even as qualified as Jason when it comes to the dancing side.

Regards

Julian
I'm sorry but I think judges should be appropriately qualified. I do take the point about Jason's Dance background (though still think he's vile) and think there is a case for 1 performance judge but to have 2 and totally marginalise the skating aspect is ridiculous.

Also Skaters all get marked on presentation in competitions so Robin isn't ignorant in this regard. And he has also choreographed many ice shows around the world for numerous years so he is far more of an all rounder than the other 2. As he himself pointed out to Angela Dancing On Ice is very different to dancing on a wooden floor.

For me the skating is what makes the show different and unique. Obviously you want contestants to be rounded with great skating & performance skills but I'd take a better skater over a better performer anyday.
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Old 07-02-2011, 14:43
Tiger Rose
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No he's there as a choreographer, Robin is there as the skater, although he was a solo skater not a pairs/ice dance skater, and Emma is there representing the general public.

And my opinion is that it would have been far better for Karen to have just stayed on her chair and ignored Jason. Getting up like she did and then not accepting his apology but arguing with him in the results show, only shows that she is as bad as him. Just because she's now dating Chris, doesn't mean she should be throwing her weight around.
Not me she isn't. I have my say anyway in the phone vote. She ain't needed at the expense of another skater.
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Old 07-02-2011, 15:47
Thrombin
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For me the skating is what makes the show different and unique. Obviously you want contestants to be rounded with great skating & performance skills but I'd take a better skater over a better performer anyday.
There's the rub, though. Obviously it's important to have both but I think a lot of people would give priority to better performance than to better technical ability. Also, it's often quite possible to tell whether a person can skate well without having to be an expert skater yourself but if we're talking about the kind of subtleties which requires a specialist to be able to tell if someone is skating well or not then the general public aren't even going to notice whereas they will almost certainly know whether they like the performance or not.

Regards

Julian
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Old 07-02-2011, 16:12
Snow_Leopard
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Don't be ridiculous. Karen is an ice skater, therefore a coach and her advice is of more value in terms of skating. Jason is there for sheer entertainment value and needs to get a grip, he can't even bloody skate.
Karen's opinion doesn't count as she is not a judge, which I think is what Jason meant. Why does she even comment? I don't want her opinion, and she's obviously biased.
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Old 07-02-2011, 16:29
Lorelei Lee
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This argument has nothing to do with:

- what Jason said about Johnson
- what Karen said about Johnson
- the qualifications of either person

It has to do with Jason saying something offensive to Karen, i.e that her opinion carried no validity now she was not a judge, and with Karen taking the major huff as a result.

Jason realised he'd gone too far and backtracked, at length, without being told to (on air at least), when he was supposed to be commenting on the skating in general that night.

By contrast, Karen not only went too far by physically confronting Jason, she continued her lack of professionalism by refusing to acknowledge his climb-down and further insulting him.

Jason, for all his inability to keep away from the personal remarks, is actually able to judge what he sees and comment on it in a calm, unruffled manner.

Karen has never been able to judge dispassionately, and she has made it clear she can't keep her feelings under wraps now she is off the panel. Getting overwrought and blowing your top, whatever your job, is not a professional approach.

If we're talking about getting one of the two off live TV, just at the moment I'd have to pick Karen.
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Old 07-02-2011, 16:44
thenetworkbabe
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It was a previous poster who claimed that Emma's function was to "represent the general public". My personal assumption was always that she was yet another "performance" judge, an aspect already covered by Jason and now ridiculously over represented in an "ice panel" that features only one skater out of three judges. Someone like Karen or Nicky should be able to judge performance as well as having a clear insight into the skating.
Nicky was totally unsuited to judging because his marking was random. karen was unsuited as she was the contestants friend and coach and her marking was high and comments bland. There's no reason why either should be able to judge what was a good performance for TV - they skated, they didn't direct, produce, work in TV or choregraph alone. Neither was effective in getting people to vote for good skaters. Nicky actually confused the issue who those were.


The trick with Emma and Alesha is that they represent the nearest thing to the public's view - tempered by some professional performance experience. They have a proven record swaying the public vote in more rational directions. The whole reason why they exist is that the public vote on these shows increasingly ignored the professional's opinions and does respond to someone popular more gently pointing out, from a more general perspective, that some are bad and should go. If you had more voting, and more responsible voting, they wouldn't be needed and they couldn't sway the vote. As it is, they are the only way the producers have found to get rid of the Todds, Annes and Coleens .
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Old 11-03-2016, 08:00
JohnStannard
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I like Jason, Karen asked for it, not professional at all the way she reacted.
exactly
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