Can't record CH4-HD test transmission on hdr

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ray-don

29-03-2011

Here's some new information to add to what's already known about this problem.
I've been able to monitor the Video folder on my Foxsat HDR in real time whilst recording channel 4 HD. I have my own custom firmware installed and by using FTP as the monitoring tool I was able to get a dynamic picture of what was happening.
By refreshing the directory listing at 1 second intervals I could see that a recording named Channel 4 HD.ts file was being made which grew with duration. The .hmt file also appeared to be OK in that it's size was about 4KB. However, and here's the root of the problem, the .nts file remained at zero bytes for the duration of the recording. Since this is what is read by the HDR in determining duration when the recording ends, this zero length file is obviously being interpreted as a recording of less than 30 seconds and as a result the recording gets deleted.

As an additional test I was able to stream the live buffer file 0.ts to my PC whilst tuned to Channel 4 HD and it played back perfectly.

So it's definitely a Humax problem, not the broadcasters.

Nigel Goodwin

29-03-2011

Originally Posted by ray-don:
“So it's definitely a Humax problem, not the broadcasters.”

You're rather assuming there's a problem at all, there's no service yet, and might not be for up to another five weeks - there's only a problem if it doesn't work when the service begins.

ray-don

29-03-2011

Originally Posted by Nigel Goodwin:
“You're rather assuming there's a problem at all, there's no service yet, and might not be for up to another five weeks - there's only a problem if it doesn't work when the service begins.”

Yes, but if there is a genuine problem, isn't it better that it's flagged up before the launch, rather than be disappointed after the event.

MediaInfo on a test recording that I FTP'd off the box today

Code:

General
ID                               : A36
Complete name                    : G:\Channel 4 HD_20110329_1705.ts
Format                           : BDAV
Format/Info                      : BluRay Video
File size                        : 180 MiB
Duration                         : 2mn 32s
Overall bit rate                 : 9 915 Kbps

Video
ID                               : 2305 (0x901)
Menu ID                          : 55300 (0xD804)
Format                           : AVC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Video Codec
Format version                   : Version 2
Format profile                   : Main@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC           : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames        : 4 frames
Duration                         : 2mn 32s
Bit rate                         : 8 934 Kbps
Width                            : 1 920 pixels
Height                           : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio             : 16/9
Frame rate                       : 25.000 fps
Resolution                       : 24 bits
Colorimetry                      : 4:2:0
Scan type                        : Interlaced
Scan order                       : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)               : 0.172
Stream size                      : 162 MiB (90%)

Audio #1
ID                               : 2306 (0x902)
Menu ID                          : 55300 (0xD804)
Format                           : AC-3
Format/Info                      : Audio Coding 3
Format profile                   : Layer 2
Duration                         : 2mn 32s
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 384 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Channel positions                : L R
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Video delay                      : -653ms
Stream size                      : 6.97 MiB (4%)
Language                         : English

Audio #2
ID                               : 2307 (0x903)
Menu ID                          : 55300 (0xD804)
Format                           : MPEG Audio
Format version                   : Version 1
Format profile                   : Layer 2
Duration                         : 2mn 32s
Bit rate mode                    : Constant
Bit rate                         : 192 Kbps
Channel(s)                       : 2 channels
Sampling rate                    : 48.0 KHz
Resolution                       : 16 bits
Video delay                      : -710ms
Stream size                      : 3.49 MiB (2%)
Language                         : nar

Text
ID                               : 2308 (0x904)
Menu ID                          : 55300 (0xD804)
Format                           : DVB Subtitles
Language                         : English

Night Watchman

29-03-2011

Originally Posted by ray-don:
“So it's definitely a Humax problem, not the broadcasters.”

So how come other DVB-S2 channels record normally? It must be the broadcaster (in its pre-launch state).

Automan

29-03-2011

Perhaps they are doing this on purpose as part of a deal with Sky?

If you want to record CHN4HD only a Sky+ box with a HD sub will do it.

Automan.

REPASSAC

29-03-2011

Originally Posted by Night Watchman:
“So how come other DVB-S2 channels record normally? It must be the broadcaster (in its pre-launch state).”

It is possible it's that BUT there is for sure a logic error in the HDR application (from what ray-don describes) for it to start to record with apparently no change in filesize. While it may not cause the EPG published channel any problems Humax need to aware of the 'problem'.

ztoppe

29-03-2011

It can not be the broadcasters.

I got a Samsung smt-s7800 today and I could and did record from Channel4 HD in non-freesat mode, and then I played it back just to make sure it had recorded.

and it works and play just like any other recording I had done.

ray-don

29-03-2011

Originally Posted by REPASSAC:
“It is possible it's that BUT there is for sure a logic error in the HDR application (from what ray-don describes) for it to start to record with apparently no change in filesize. While it may not cause the EPG published channel any problems Humax need to aware of the 'problem'.”

The actual video stream (the .ts file) is recording OK. It's one of the sidecar files (the .nts file) which is staying a zero file size. This is a Humax specific file which is created at the same time as the recording and contains tables of frame types, addresses and timings used when doing seek and FF/rewind operations. If it's not there then you can't play back the video stream on the HDR.

Nigel Goodwin

29-03-2011

Originally Posted by ray-don:
“Yes, but if there is a genuine problem, isn't it better that it's flagged up before the launch, rather than be disappointed after the event.”

I wouldn't have thought CH4 are eagerly watching DS in the hope someone might find a problem with their not yet launched service

I would imagine they know all about it, always have, and it's quite probably a deliberate 'feature' rather than a fault.

As others have suggested, as all other channels work perfectly, it's most likely a 'problem' with the current CH4 HD pre-release tests. There is a lesser possibility that it's a problem with the Humax boxes, in that CH4 HD may be using a previously unused feature of Freesat, and that the Humax boxes don't cope with it correctly.

Just because other boxes record doesn't mean it's not still a 'fault' with the broadcast.

Night Watchman

29-03-2011

Originally Posted by ztoppe:
“It can not be the broadcasters. I got a Samsung smt-s7800 today and I could and did record from Channel4 HD in non-freesat mode, and then I played it back just to make sure it had recorded.
and it works and play just like any other recording I had done.”

What I was saying was that the Humax HDR can and does record other fta DVB-S2 channels.This would infer that the C4 HD signal does not conform to normal broadcasting standards. I believe this so-called 'fault' is deliberate to prevent recording pre-launch - a contractual/rights issue - but we will just have to wait for the launch to find out.

Night Watchman

31-03-2011

Just tried to record C4 HD on my Humax HDR (Deal or no Deal) and it works

So maybe there is an April 1 launch coming up - and it wasn't a technical fault with the Humax after all.
Don't know if it was working before but Audio Description is also now listed on 'Audio' settings - active on current programme.

terrykl

31-03-2011

I spoke to a Colin Wilson at Humax tech support this morning,pointing out that pretty much all equipment except Humax were capable recording CH4 HD in non Freesat mode.He needed to make some enquiries and so rang me back.He confirmed that as far as Humax was concerned the April launch was imminent.He also said they were unaware that the channel was unrecordable on their equipment and that he would point this out to the relevant department.
so I don't know if my conversation this morning had anything to do with it or whether it's a coincidence

grahamlthompson

31-03-2011

Originally Posted by terrykl:
“I spoke to a Colin Wilson at Humax tech support this morning,pointing out that pretty much all equipment except Humax were capable recording CH4 HD in non Freesat mode.He needed to make some enquiries and so rang me back.He confirmed that as far as Humax was concerned the April launch was imminent.He also said they were unaware that the channel was unrecordable on their equipment and that he would point this out to the relevant department.
so I don't know if my conversation this morning had anything to do with it or whether it's a coincidence”

It's a coincidence Humax's Technical Support manager was aware of it from the first day CH4-HD went fta for the first test.

Jepson

31-03-2011

Originally Posted by terrykl:
“I spoke to a Colin Wilson ... He also said they were unaware that the channel was unrecordable on their equipment ...”

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson:
“It's a coincidence Humax's Technical Support manager was aware of it from the first day CH4-HD went fta for the first test.”

Are you suggesting that Colin Wilson was lying?

grahamlthompson

31-03-2011

Originally Posted by Jepson:
“Are you suggesting that Colin Wilson was lying? ”

No simply that whoever he is, he was not in the picture. I am 100% sure that Humax knew about the problem from the date of my first posting in this thread.

Automan

31-03-2011

So when our boxes with the beta firmware do a auto channel scan at 03:00 on April fools day perhaps we will have chn4 hd?

terrykl

31-03-2011

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson:
“No simply that whoever he is, he was not in the picture. I am 100% sure that Humax knew about the problem from the date of my first posting in this thread.”

Well all I can say he went to a lot of trouble to investigate the matter this morning and took the trouble to call me back.
As far as I'm concerned he was very genuine and very helpful.
But who am I to question someone with so much knowledge
and experience such as you??

No I'll stick to my gut instinct on this one he was totally genuine!!

terrykl

31-03-2011

Originally Posted by Automan:
“So when our boxes with the beta firmware do a auto channel scan at 03:00 on April fools day perhaps we will have chn4 hd?”

No date in April has been set,and only a cynic or a fool would contemplate April 1st as the launch date.

terrykl

31-03-2011

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson:
“It's a coincidence Humax's Technical Support manager was aware of it from the first day CH4-HD went fta for the first test.”

It took you until post 43# to state that.Humax was aware of the problem from the start.In response to my post you have egged it up by saying the Technical support Manager was aware from the 1st day!!:yawn:

grahamlthompson

31-03-2011

Originally Posted by terrykl:
“It took you until post 43# to state that.Humax was aware of the problem from the start.In response to my post you have egged it up by saying the Technical support Manager was aware from the 1st day!!:yawn:”

There was no egging up involved, until that posting I had no idea anyone would be so naive to assume that Humax were not aware. They knew about the situation from day 1 clearly at that stage they were not sure why. It became clear that the problem did not require any firmware mods to rectify. I suggest the poster asks why his source of information was not privy to the situation. More than that I am not prepared to comment.

terrykl

31-03-2011

Originally Posted by grahamlthompson:
“There was no egging up involved, until that posting I had no idea anyone would be so naive to assume that Humax were not aware. They knew about the situation from day 1 clearly at that stage they were not sure why. It became clear that the problem did not require any firmware mods to rectify. I suggest the poster asks why his source of information was not privy to the situation. More than that I am not prepared to comment.”

At least I have a source to name.More than can be said for you..

Jepson

31-03-2011

Graham, do you have any actual evidence that Humax were aware of the problem or is it just something of which you are certain because of a gut feeling?

You know, in the same way you are certain that hardly anyone other than me cares about the daftnesses in the FF/FR implementation.

grahamlthompson

31-03-2011

Originally Posted by Jepson:
“Graham, do you have any actual evidence that Humax were aware of the problem or is it just something of which you are certain because of a gut feeling?

You know, in the same way you are certain that hardly anyone other than me cares about the daftnesses in the FF/FR implementation. ”

I have incontreversional evidence. It's not a gut feeling. I can't say more without comprimising a trusted and reliable source.

By sheer coincidence afaik I happened to be the first outside Humax that spotted the problem and posted in a public forum.

I know others will jump on this as a cynical ploy, it's not it's why after the original posting I simply stood back and awaited todays outcome

apart from posting that Humax knew about it, basically simply to say no point in swamping Humax support with loads of e-mails about something they were well aware of.

Think about it logically.

It must be obvious that Channel 4 would not have been able to make a technical change to the transmission standard without extensive co-ordination with Humax, impossible in the time scale of this discussion.

Equally it's impossible for Humax to make a hidden modification to each and every Foxsat-hdr in the wild.

Any other hypotheses is frankly ludicrous.

As it happens Nigels original posting (It Will Be Alright On The Night) was entirely accurate.

koantemplation

31-03-2011

I just tried recording the 10 O'clock Show and my Humax HDR managed to record it.

Not sure what has changed, Perhaps a reboot helps?

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