[TEDPITMAN]

I know its most likely been asked a thousand times,but can't find the info
If I receive a NTSC tape recording and play it on a U.K. video what distortion do I get?

Thanks in advance

[killie1]

It would probably play, but the picture would be in black and white.

However most vcr's made in the past few years are capable of playing bck NTSC tapes on a UK PAL tv.

Billy

[BubblePack]

I've got an NTSC tape and it plays back in colour on my cheap PAL TV. Most modern VCRs have NTSC playback built in. If you have an NTSC logo on the front then you should be okay.

However, there are shortcomings. The NTSC standard does not use as many lines as PAL, so the picture quality will be slightly poorer. Also, my stereo VCR will only play NTSC tapes in mono.

The other slight issue is that an NTSC tape will play slightly faster when shown on a PAL TV. This is due to the difference in the number of frames per second. This does not tend to be noticeable when watching but the overall duration of, for example, movies will be shorter by a few minutes.

[philengland]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubblePack

The other slight issue is that an NTSC tape will play slightly faster when shown on a PAL TV. This is due to the difference in the number of frames per second. This does not tend to be noticeable when watching but the overall duration of, for example, movies will be shorter by a few minutes.

useful if you are always in a rush - watch a movie on a ntsc tape

[DEmberton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubblePack

The other slight issue is that an NTSC tape will play slightly faster when shown on a PAL TV. This is due to the difference in the number of frames per second. This does not tend to be noticeable when watching but the overall duration of, for example, movies will be shorter by a few minutes.

Is that true? I've never heard of DVD players doing the speed up for PAL, so I'd be suprised if a VCR did. Usually DVD players output either NTSC or 60Hz PAL for an NTSC Film source, and I'm not sure if there's such a thing as NTSC film for VHS (24fps instead of 30fps), so it seems extremely unlikely.

Dave

[petergillett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DEmberton

Is that true? I've never heard of DVD players doing the speed up for PAL, so I'd be suprised if a VCR did. Usually DVD players output either NTSC or 60Hz PAL for an NTSC Film source, and I'm not sure if there's such a thing as NTSC film for VHS (24fps instead of 30fps), so it seems extremely unlikely.

Dave

Surely the playback is related to tape speed? Does NTSC use a different length of tape per second?

Secondly, if it ran at frame rate, wouldn't NTSC video (at 30fps) by 20% LONGER than PAL at 25fps?

[ACCESSTIME]

Quote:

Originally Posted by killie1

It would probably play, but the picture would be in black and white.

However most vcr's made in the past few years are capable of playing bck NTSC tapes on a UK PAL tv.

Billy

Hi Guys,
I have only one thing to add, and that is even if the VCR is made to play back NTSC tapes, the UK Pal tv, has also got to have the circuit inside to allow the NTSC tape to be played correctly. Even it the VCR can play the tape if the circuit is not inside the TV, then you will get a black, and white picture. But in saying that most new TV's in the UK do have that circuit in side, so you would be unlucky not to receive the colour picture you require.

[Adrian Mole]

modern tvs and videos will deal with NTSC......but only on SP. LP and EP will not play properly - so you're ok if it's recorded properly or it's a pre-recorded tape

[TEDPITMAN]

Thanks everyone for all your replys.
The tape I want to buy is a football match taped off the TV by a guy in the U.S.A.
Any other thoughts?

[BubblePack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACCESSTIME

the UK Pal tv, has also got to have the circuit inside to allow the NTSC tape to be played correctly. Even it the VCR can play the tape if the circuit is not inside the TV, then you will get a black, and white picture. But in saying that most new TV's in the UK do have that circuit in side, so you would be unlucky not to receive the colour picture you require.

My TV is a simple PAL TV but my VCR is still able to provide a colour picture for NTSC tapes.

My DVD player has both PAL and NTSC modes. If I change the player to NTSC mode then I get a black and white picture. That would imply that my television does not have an NTSC circuit and that the VCR is doing all of the translation from NTSC to PAL.

[PhilH36]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrian Mole

modern tvs and videos will deal with NTSC......but only on SP. LP and EP will not play properly - so you're ok if it's recorded properly or it's a pre-recorded tape

Sorry,but I've got plenty of NTSC tapes from US TV that my friends have sent me over the years,recorded in LP and SLP,and they all play fine on my equipment.

[phelings]

It depends on your vcr.Most modern ones output NTSC as PAL 60 enabling colour playback.If your vcr has an LP mode ,like Panasonic,LP and SLP(or EP) should also play.
Actually NTSC plays back SLOWER than PAL(25fps)and is 24fps.This is why all NTSC vhs and dvd's are about 2 minutes longer than their PAL equivalent.Play one of each side by side and PAL stuff sounds speeded up,which it is,as NTSC plays at the same as cinema projection and matches cinema running times.Some modern material is pitch corrected to avoid this.Note,Panasonic and other dvd recorders can only record from a pure NTSC source-so if you want to transfer your NTSC(PAL60) tape to dvd you will need a Pioneer or Philips as these record PAL 60

[mart.stokes]

Quote:

Originally Posted by phelings

It depends on your vcr.Most modern ones output NTSC as PAL 60 enabling colour playback.If your vcr has an LP mode ,like Panasonic,LP and SLP(or EP) should also play.
Actually NTSC plays back SLOWER than PAL(25fps)and is 24fps.This is why all NTSC vhs and dvd's are about 2 minutes longer than their PAL equivalent.Play one of each side by side and PAL stuff sounds speeded up,which it is,as NTSC plays at the same as cinema projection and matches cinema running times.Some modern material is pitch corrected to avoid this.Note,Panasonic and other dvd recorders can only record from a pure NTSC source-so if you want to transfer your NTSC(PAL60) tape to dvd you will need a Pioneer or Philips as these record PAL 60

Very close! NTSC is 30 frames a second or 60 half frames, on DVD they "fiddle" fitting the 24 fps in by adding extra half frames to give, what they call, 3:2 pulldown. An extra half frame every four, in effect. Add one half frame to every four, or six frames to every twenty four (equating to 60 half frames per second). This is why NTSC DVDs may seem to "judder" slightly on long, smooth, pans. Many people have spent years producing home cinema equipment to combat this effect.

Crack on about PAL being faster, 4% is about right. Yes, all those American actors actually have deeper voices than we are used to hearing on a PAL DVD! Okay, the change in pitch could only be noticed by somebody whose hearing is FAR better than mine, they do sometimes correct for it.

So, next time you look at the running time of a region 1 NTSC DVD against a region 2 PAL DVD, don't think the region 2 version has been cut by 4%!

[mart.stokes]

I should correct myself; NTSC is NOT tied to 60 frames per second. It's just that where they use NTSC the most, North America, NTSC is used at 60 Hertz. Same way that PAL is not tied to 50 frames per second, it's just that we use PAL and all TVs used to take the timing from the electrical supply (in the good old days). Nowadays no TV takes the electrical supply as the source of timing, but we are stuck with it for the moment because it was designed that way.

[meltcity]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BubblePack

The other slight issue is that an NTSC tape will play slightly faster when shown on a PAL TV. This is due to the difference in the number of frames per second. This does not tend to be noticeable when watching but the overall duration of, for example, movies will be shorter by a few minutes.

The NTSC tape plays back faster (at 6.6 feet per minute as opposed to 4.69 feet per minute for PAL) because NTSC recordings use up more tape space, but the running time does not change! When a movie is transferred to NTSC tape the video version will run a few seconds longer than the original due to the fact that NTSC runs at 59.94Hz and not 60Hz.

VHS tapes of PAL movies (or DVDs, for that matter) will indeed be shorter by a few minutes, not because of the tape speed, but due to the problem of converting between 24 and 25 frames a second.

[Orbitalzone]

Yes while we're being techinical, NTSC runs at 29.997 frames a second if I recall.....pretty darned close to 30fps though!

If you listen to the mechanism when you play an NTSC tape you will notice the video will speed up (motor noise) - as described nicely by Meltcity above, the tape runs throught the machine a bit faster (there are 30 frames a second to read off the tape compared to 25 with PAL. so that's 20% faster )

So an NTSC E120 minute tape will actually last longer if recorded on using a PAL signal / PAL video.I don't think you'll find E240 video tapes in the NTSC countries as I Suspect tthe extra tape needed wouldn't fit in a tape case.....(20% more tape required compared to PAL)

I digress!

[TEDPITMAN]

Thanks to one and all,problem sorted.
Managed to get hold of a guy in U.K. who deals in footy DVD's
England v Croatia on DVD heading my way

[bronx2282]

My old Sony SLV-SE20 has NTSC Playback on a PAL TV and has a switch at the back to do this.

[Seven]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philengland

useful if you are always in a rush - watch a movie on an NTSC tape

LOL.