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iPhone knocked well of its perch
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scumble
26-02-2011
Originally Posted by Soundburst:
“Not really a surprise considering Android is a leech OS. An OS which leeches to any hardware as opposed to iOS which is on very set hardware. It's not really a comparison that makes sense.

As for the article. Again. . .not really surprising considering they're cheaper handsets and also cheaper line rental / free handsets.

Bit like saying "OMG OMG OMG Ford sell more cars than Ferrari!".

/Non-news.”

A nonsense analogy. To be even close, Ferrari must have started making tons of cars, way before Ford started making anything, Now the news is that many different manufacturers are selling very many cars with Ford engines, but Ferraris with Ferrari engines are still selling very well.

On top of that, Ford engine performance has in some ways overtaken Ferrari performance!

/News.
rosetech
26-02-2011
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“Absolute nonsense.

iOS is like visiting a beautiful walled garden. A heavenly experience. ”

Where all the garden benches are bolted into the ground, you are given rose tinted glasses on entry and the paths lead to lovely attractions curiously flanked by large apple trees. Each time you enter this garden you notice the apple trees seems bigger and garden seems somehow smaller. Meanwhile the building site next door which used to sell cupcakes, doughnuts, eclairs and icecream has expanded significantly and is stealing much of the sunlight that used to envelope the beautiful walled garden. People are now starting to make journeys to building site to lend a hand as they have been told they can use the land as they see fit. One day the building site puts up a sign saying they are putting in apiary, people start to whisper they have seen the plans and this will be the making of the building site...
wavejockglw
26-02-2011
Android is an open source technology available to all phone makers and it can be adaped and tailored to any manuafcturer's requirements but to be a useful recognisable operating system it has to have most feautres intact in all devices.

iOS is a one device only OS and designed to perform on a specific piece of hardware.

Thinking about the computing business, an OS that works on many products was what made Microsoft the world leader.

Apple have a viable mobile phone product for now but IT historical trends suggest they will become a niche product because their OS is exclusive to their hardware.
Vallhund
26-02-2011
Originally Posted by wavejockglw:
“Android is an open source technology available to all phone makers and it can be adaped and tailored to any manuafcturer's requirements but to be a useful recognisable operating system it has to have most feautres intact in all devices.

iOS is a one device only OS and designed to perform on a specific piece of hardware.”

And that is why it is the best!

Originally Posted by wavejockglw:
“Thinking about the computing business, an OS that works on many products was what made Microsoft the world leader.”

Look what it did for Linux!

The reason Windows became a success was was for the right or wrong reasons it was adopted by Enterprise and people thought they should have the same computer at home as they had at work. It certainly hasn't worked that way with cars and it is no longer working that way with computers.

Originally Posted by wavejockglw:
“Apple have a viable mobile phone product for now but IT historical trends suggest they will become a niche product because their OS is exclusive to their hardware.”

Which historical trends other than the anomaly of the PC?
iPod?
iPod Touch?
iPad?
Stiggles
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Soundburst:
“Not really a surprise considering Android is a leech OS. An OS which leeches to any hardware as opposed to iOS which is on very set hardware. It's not really a comparison that makes sense.

As for the article. Again. . .not really surprising considering they're cheaper handsets and also cheaper line rental / free handsets.

Bit like saying "OMG OMG OMG Ford sell more cars than Ferrari!".

/Non-news.”

Way wrong answer.

Cheaper handsets? Hardly considering the Desire HD for instance was or is on par with the iphone 4. The only free Android handsets i have seen are the budget ones.

Android is an open source OS which any manufacturer can use. Companies go to Google for it or Google offers it to them. Leech indeed lol

It doesn't matter if 1 or 100 different manufacturers use Android, the fact is people are buying into Android and not iOS now. People arent doing this because of the amount of companies making them, they are doing it simply because its a superb OS

Absolutely nothing to do with the many companies who use it. What rubbish.

Apple have everything to worry about here. They used to be the most widely use smartphones. Now they are not. Of course they are worried. Of course they will never admit it kinda the same as they never admit bugs or faults
Stiggles
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“And that is why it is the best!”

Now i shall disagree with you there.

Best in whos eyes? Yours or the many users who are jumping at Android over iOS after having tried them both which most people do when buying phones?

Having had the use of pretty much every iOS so far and 2 iphones and now on Android, sorry to say but in my opinion anyway Android is much better. Nicer to look at for one, especially as it can be tailored to the way you want it to look.

Guess what im trying to say here is like what you said earlier to me, each person has their own idea of whats better, whats suits them is what they use and the hard fact is just now, Android is just that one.

When the iphone 5 comes out, im sure the tables will turn again but, not for long. Repeat this over and over as apple release new hardware then other manufacturers release theirs. Apple do not and will not remain the best. Just impossible to happen.
mtaylor1811
27-02-2011
The whole argument is interesting cos its all about Brand (Apple) V OS (Android) I often wonder what would happen if say Apple did a similar deal to what Nokia and Microsoft did and allowed (just as an example) Samsung to release smart phones with there iOS 4 as the OS, wonder if these phones would catch on?
Vallhund
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Stiggles:
“Now i shall disagree with you there.

Best in whos eyes? Yours or the many users who are jumping at Android over iOS after having tried them both which most people do when buying phones?”

Lots of Android users are jumping to iOS too.

'Best' is extremely subjective as you say. But I was meaning best in another way entirely. I think the iPhone will continue to be best in the reviews because of Apple's approach which has worked very well for them. The angle they take is "What would 90% of users want 90% of the time?". That is why Apple always tops the ratings. Other makers approach it from "Let's throw everything in including the kitchen sink". Now that suits some people, but most people have preferred the iPad to say the Windows tablet.

Originally Posted by Stiggles:
“Having had the use of pretty much every iOS so far and 2 iphones and now on Android, sorry to say but in my opinion anyway Android is much better. Nicer to look at for one, especially as it can be tailored to the way you want it to look.”

Now that is great for you, but not everyone will agree. Soon we will have 3 smartphones in the house: an iPhone, a Nokia E72 and a Blackberry. Different phones to suit different needs.

Originally Posted by Stiggles:
“Guess what im trying to say here is like what you said earlier to me, each person has their own idea of whats better, whats suits them is what they use and the hard fact is just now, Android is just that one.

When the iphone 5 comes out, im sure the tables will turn again but, not for long. Repeat this over and over as apple release new hardware then other manufacturers release theirs. Apple do not and will not remain the best. Just impossible to happen.”

Not really. Apple continues to produce high quality hardware and has a good marketplace. iOS is elegant and easy to use and I can't see any Android handset coming up to this standard. For one thing the fragmentation problem in Android would be a show stopper for me.

Originally Posted by mtaylor1811:
“The whole argument is interesting cos its all about Brand (Apple) V OS (Android) I often wonder what would happen if say Apple did a similar deal to what Nokia and Microsoft did and allowed (just as an example) Samsung to release smart phones with there iOS 4 as the OS, wonder if these phones would catch on?”

It would really be a non-starter as Apple is a Hardware company that also makes Operating Systems. The OS is the dongle for you to buy the Hardware and this approach is working very well for Apple. Why should Apple give away one of its main selling points?
scumble
27-02-2011
This is currently trending in iPhone circles online - a good example of rosetech's sinister walled garden analogy

A digital download being 'sold out'. Rather intriguing. And by an amazing coincidence it's an app a Flash-enabled browser, that Apple don't like you running on your iPhone. Hmmm....
Stiggles
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“Not really. Apple continues to produce high quality hardware and has a good marketplace. iOS is elegant and easy to use and I can't see any Android handset coming up to this standard. For one thing the fragmentation problem in Android would be a show stopper for me.”

Im not entirely sure what you mean by fragmentation and why would it be a stopper for you?

Sorry to say but Android has caught up with iOS and has surpassed it in many ways including speed, ease of use and looks much better than grey/white. Very dull now.
IslandNiles
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by scumble:
“This is currently trending in iPhone circles online - a good example of rosetech's sinister walled garden analogy

A digital download being 'sold out'. Rather intriguing. And by an amazing coincidence it's an app a Flash-enabled browser, that Apple don't like you running on your iPhone. Hmmm....”

It's not really a good example of Apple's supposedly sinister walled garden though, is it? Rather, it's a good example of a conspiracy theory.

Maybe Apple has had some hand in this. But the developer hasn't said that, and neither has Apple. So at the moment, you're taking a story that seems to be about a company facing bigger demand than it expected or could cope with, and making an unfounded supposition about Apple.
Vallhund
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Stiggles:
“Im not entirely sure what you mean by fragmentation and why would it be a stopper for you?”


Android Fragmentation Will Get More Complicated


Android's Biggest Worry: Fragmentation


From the the developer of Angry Birds
Quote:
“Android is growing, but it’s also growing complexity at the same time. Device fragmentation not the issue, but rather the fragmentation of the ecosystem. So many different shops, so many different models. The carriers messing with the experience again. Open but not really open, a very Google-centric ecosystem.””

When you buy an iPhone you can upgrade to the latest OS anytime you want to. When you buy an Android phone you have to wait until the manufacturer and carrier say it is OK.
You are handcuffed and at their mercy. Less than 1% of Android users on the latest version of Android.

Not a system for me.

Originally Posted by Stiggles:
“Sorry to say but Android has caught up with iOS and has surpassed it in many ways including speed, ease of use and looks much better than grey/white. Very dull now.”

Ease of use? The Android UI has been heavily criticised. Speed depends on how well the OS works with the Hardware and let's just say the OEMs have never done well in that area.

iPhone is an object of beauty. Most Android phones look like they shouldn't have made it past quality control.
Stiggles
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“
Android Fragmentation Will Get More Complicated


Android's Biggest Worry: Fragmentation


From the the developer of Angry Birds


When you buy an iPhone you can upgrade to the latest OS anytime you want to. When you buy an Android phone you have to wait until the manufacturer and carrier say it is OK.
You are handcuffed and at their mercy. Less than 1% of Android users on the latest version of Android.

Not a system for me. ”

I think they have kinda gone way over the top on that one to be honest.

Weird though as neither me or the many users i know including my 80+ year old nana have an issues with it lol

Quote:
“Ease of use? The Android UI has been heavily criticised. Speed depends on how well the OS works with the Hardware and let's just say the OEMs have never done well in that area.”

Now in some aspects i agree. Sony Ericsson for one who absolutely ruin Android.

Vanilla Android which is pretty much what HTC use with added Sense is an absolute dream to use.

Quote:
“iPhone is an object of beauty. Most Android phones look like they shouldn't have made it past quality control. ”

No its not. Grey/white/blue is not an object if beauty. Awful yes.

Iphone looks nice, well the 4 does, 2,3 and 3gs were shockingly ugly.

Anyway, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just because you think apple are beautiful doesn't make it so. Its actually frightening how many people buy into that rubbish lol
scumble
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by IslandNiles:
“It's not really a good example of Apple's supposedly sinister walled garden though, is it? Rather, it's a good example of a conspiracy theory.

Maybe Apple has had some hand in this. But the developer hasn't said that, and neither has Apple. So at the moment, you're taking a story that seems to be about a company facing bigger demand than it expected or could cope with, and making an unfounded supposition about Apple.”

I think it's naive to think that Apple hasn't had a hand in this app disappearing from iTunes, and I'd be surprised if they were to say so openly. The app developers are in no position to make any statement that might reflect badly on Apple. There's no question that Apple have the whip hand here.

Exactly how can a company face 'bigger demand than it could cope with' for a browser sold through the iTunes store? Do they have exhausted craftsmen building and delivering each one?
What was the 'unfounded supposition'?

The iOS walled garden is a fact, and I merely said the situation was intriguing.
rosetech
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“
Android Fragmentation Will Get More Complicated


Android's Biggest Worry: Fragmentation


From the the developer of Angry Birds

When you buy an iPhone you can upgrade to the latest OS anytime you want to. When you buy an Android phone you have to wait until the manufacturer and carrier say it is OK.
You are handcuffed and at their mercy. Less than 1% of Android users on the latest version of Android.

Not a system for me. ”

I think you've misunderstood the article. Fragmentation comes about from vendors not Google adding special sauce onto the operating system. This then makes the upgrade a more intricate job than necessary. Hence why people love the "Vanilla Android" Nexus phones - you pretty much get the upgrade as soon as it can be compiled and are wary of "HTC Android" where you have to wait until HTC get their mits on it and then add their stuff. This is happening less and less as Vendors have realised Google's ecosystem is much better than anything they might want to create (in most cases). HTC keep on with this as it creates a difference.

As for Angry Birds developers, who ever wrote the Android code , clearly skipped a few chapters on platform compatibility, screen resolution and pixel density. Their view on the future of mobiles is sweet but naive.
Vallhund
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by rosetech:
“I think you've misunderstood the article. Fragmentation comes about from vendors not Google adding special sauce onto the operating system. This then makes the upgrade a more intricate job than necessary. Hence why people love the "Vanilla Android" Nexus phones - you pretty much get the upgrade as soon as it can be compiled and are wary of "HTC Android" where you have to wait until HTC get their mits on it and then add their stuff. This is happening less and less as Vendors have realised Google's ecosystem is much better than anything they might want to create (in most cases). HTC keep on with this as it creates a difference. ”

I do understand it and I wasn't blaming Google (at least not directly). The villans here are the manufacturers and carriers who don't want you to update the OS, but want you to buy a new phone. BTW Apple does too, but you can count on 3 years of having the most up to date OS available for your phone - not two weeks . Some people characterise iOS as a walled garden. The problem with Android is that it's like the Wild West - anything goes and not necessarily to the benefit of the consumer.
IslandNiles
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by scumble:
“What was the 'unfounded supposition'?

The iOS walled garden is a fact, and I merely said the situation was intriguing.”

You said it was a good example of their sinister walled garden. But as yet, there are no actual facts to support it being an example, good or otherwise, of anything other than what the developers have said.
Vallhund
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by IslandNiles:
“You said it was a good example of their sinister walled garden. But as yet, there are no actual facts to support it being an example, good or otherwise, of anything other than what the developers have said.”

Yes Apple is sinister, but Android isn't. You just cannot update your Android phone when you want to.
rosetech
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“I do understand it and I wasn't blaming Google (at least not directly). The villans here are the manufacturers and carriers who don't want you to update the OS, but want you to buy a new phone. BTW Apple does too, but you can count on 3 years of having the most up to date OS available for your phone - not two weeks . Some people characterise iOS as a walled garden. The problem with Android is that it's like the Wild West - anything goes and not necessarily to the benefit of the consumer. ”

Fair enough, Although your wild west is my Lego land
Stiggles
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“Yes Apple is sinister, but Android isn't. You just cannot update your Android phone when you want to. ”

Oh you wanna bet you can?

In fact ive done mine twice tonight already
Vallhund
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Stiggles:
“Oh you wanna bet you can?

In fact ive done mine twice tonight already ”

Depends on your Android phone. You on 2.3 yet?
MD1500
27-02-2011
The Android mascot is far "cuter"

http://www.notcot.com/archives/2010/03/android-toys.php

Apple figurines just wouldn't be the same
alanwarwic
27-02-2011
Whilst Opera Mobile and Firefox Mobile are both banned from IOS I wonder about Chrome browser.

It is compliant so theoretically would be accepted. But what if they embedded Flash too?
Red Arrow
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“Yes Apple is sinister, but Android isn't. You just cannot update your Android phone when you want to. ”

Actually no. Because it's basically an open-source OS there is a massive community of people releasing OS updates for almost every phone. My HTC Hero was running 2.1 long before HTC released it to the users.

Of course the average joe won't know you can do this, or even do it if they tried. But point is it is possible to update your phone long before the manufacturer releases it, if they ever do.

I do agree that OS updates are a bit of a mess compared to Apple, but that is just due to the nature of the environment it's on.
Stiggles
27-02-2011
Originally Posted by Vallhund:
“Depends on your Android phone. You on 2.3 yet?”

Yeah but not through HTC.

Like has been said, Android being and open source means people like me can make custom roms tailored to me. There are vast communities that make new roms before the manufacturer even looks at the code.
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