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Old 23-02-2011, 15:33
zandar
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I have just been reading the February 2011 issue of the Consumers Association Magazine 'Which'. On Page 25 it has an article about how it has tested store staff on buying televisions and recorders. I will quote part of this:>

"Our researchers told shop staff they wanted to watch HDTV and planned to spend no more than £600.
Which HDTV expert Mike Briggs was shocked at the poor advice our researchers were given.
Plenty of shop staff confused HD-Ready and Full HD, for example. HD Ready is fine for broadcast HD programmes and will work with Blu-ray, but Full HD is your best bet for watching the higher resolution Blu-ray format. Several staff neglected to point out the difference, ignoring the potential benefit of Full HD for Blu-ray".

For the benefit of 'Which', your statement that HD Ready is fine for broadcast HD programmes is totally incorrect as these televisions DO NOT HAVE the all important T2 (MPEG-4) tuner that gives access to channels in the 50's where you will find BBC HD, ITV HD, CH4 HD & BBC1 HD. So, unless you are subscribing to Sky HD or purchasing an external Freeview HD or Freesat HD box (& being stuck with another remote control), you will be stuck with a television that has enough pixels to show a full HD picture (via a Blu-ray for instance) but is only capable of receiving STANDARD definition broadcasts via the aerial! An absolutely ridiculous situation and one which the shop staff do not usually point out as if known by the purchasers, they would never shift such televisions.

At least what 'Which' have to say about HDMI cables and PVR's is correct. (They warn people not to fall for the expensive - like £50 as suggested by Comet - HDMI cables when ones costing £10 or less are just as good. They also warn against buying DVD recorders for watch & wipe where Hard Disc Drive Recorders are far more convenient and easier to use).
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Old 23-02-2011, 15:49
LCDMAN
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You love to talk cobblers don't you! It is true that either "HD ready" or "Full HD" sets won't get terrestrial HD signals without a terrestrial HD tuner - but this has no direct bearing on whether the TV is "HD ready" or "Full HD" - you can find BOTH out there with a terrestrial HD tuner built in, and both without! Terrestrial HD signals aren't broadcast at 1080p anyway - there isn't the bandwidth, so a "HD ready"(720p/1080i) set with terrestrial HD tuner will do fine.
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Old 23-02-2011, 15:56
Glawster2002
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I have just been reading the February 2011 issue of the Consumers Association Magazine 'Which'. On Page 25 it has an article about how it has tested store staff on buying televisions and recorders. I will quote part of this:>

"Our researchers told shop staff they wanted to watch HDTV and planned to spend no more than £600.
Which HDTV expert Mike Briggs was shocked at the poor advice our researchers were given.
Plenty of shop staff confused HD-Ready and Full HD, for example. HD Ready is fine for broadcast HD programmes and will work with Blu-ray, but Full HD is your best bet for watching the higher resolution Blu-ray format. Several staff neglected to point out the difference, ignoring the potential benefit of Full HD for Blu-ray".

For the benefit of 'Which', your statement that HD Ready is fine for broadcast HD programmes is totally incorrect as these televisions DO NOT HAVE the all important T2 (MPEG-4) tuner that gives access to channels in the 50's where you will find BBC HD, ITV HD, CH4 HD & BBC1 HD. So, unless you are subscribing to Sky HD or purchasing an external Freeview HD or Freesat HD box (& being stuck with another remote control), you will be stuck with a television that has enough pixels to show a full HD picture (via a Blu-ray for instance) but is only capable of receiving STANDARD definition broadcasts via the aerial! An absolutely ridiculous situation and one which the shop staff do not usually point out as if known by the purchasers, they would never shift such televisions.

At least what 'Which' have to say about HDMI cables and PVR's is correct. (They warn people not to fall for the expensive - like £50 as suggested by Comet - HDMI cables when ones costing £10 or less are just as good. They also warn against buying DVD recorders for watch & wipe where Hard Disc Drive Recorders are far more convenient and easier to use).
It is not "totally" incorrect because, as you go on to say, with a suitable external HD capable set-top box, you can watch HDTV on a "HD Ready" television.

What is more important is the ract that, according to their research, shop staff appear not to know the difference between HD Ready and Full HD.
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Old 23-02-2011, 16:27
zandar
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I stand by what I stated originally. 'Which' have failed to explain/appreciate that the televisions described as "HD Ready" are not capable of receiving BBC 1 HD etc out of the box yet the ones described as "Freeview HD" are capable of receiving the main HD channels for free when you get it out of its box and plug in your home aerial. This statement is the most important thing that they should have told their readers regarding the purchase of a new television.
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Old 23-02-2011, 17:35
Pugwash69
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I watch HD broadcast on my 1080p TV and it only has a crappy old freeview tuner that I don't even use.
I don't even expect freeview HD in my area for some time and use a freesat HD box.

Mystery solved.
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Old 23-02-2011, 17:47
LCDMAN
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I stand by what I stated originally. 'Which' have failed to explain/appreciate that the televisions described as "HD Ready" are not capable of receiving BBC 1 HD etc out of the box yet the ones described as "Freeview HD" are capable of receiving the main HD channels for free when you get it out of its box and plug in your home aerial. This statement is the most important thing that they should have told their readers regarding the purchase of a new television.

More BS from you! You said that those marked "HD Ready" couldn't get Freeview HD but those marked "Full HD" could - THATS BOLLOX! Neither will unless they have a Freeview HD tuner and you can get a Freeview HD tuner in EITHER type of TV! "HD Ready" & "Full HD" are separate things to the existence of a terrestrial HD tuner in that particular TV.

Pulled your "facts" out of your ar$e in the wrong order pal...
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Old 23-02-2011, 19:21
webbie
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If you've got sky hd you probably won't want to pay the extra for a freeview hd tuner anyway. Better off with a better quality tv without freeview HD and use your sky hd box.
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Old 23-02-2011, 19:50
Prontopro
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http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/s...922&highlight=

Haven't you learnt anything since then?

You seem to think people will be interested in your posts about Freeview HD.

They aren't.
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Old 23-02-2011, 21:23
David (2)
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FreeviewHD (DVB-T2 tuner) has nothing at all to do with the set being HD Ready or Full HD - both of which refer to the screen res, not wether its got a DVB-T2 tuner or not. This DVB-T2 tuner is so far (i thnk) only used in the UK,.....and the world is a much bigger place than just the UK.

I wouldnt even bother looking for a tv with DVB-T2 buiilt in. If your going to record, you will need a pvr recorder anyway, so just make sure this is DVB-T2 or other HD capable platform (eg, Cable HD, FreesatHD, SkyHD).
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Old 24-02-2011, 08:13
roddydogs
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"Which" revelation----------shop assistants dont know much about the products, not even the ones that can speak English. Surprise.
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Old 24-02-2011, 09:00
zandar
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For the benefit of that cheeky LCDMan, the official logo for marketing televisions with the T2 tuners is Freeview HD. You can see this logo on P328 of the new Argos catalogue. Televisions marketed as "HD Ready" do not have the HD T2 tuners.

Mention has been made that if you have for instance a Sky HD or Freesat HD PVR, that it would not be an important factor to have a T2 tuner built into the TV. This is true to a certain extent but remember that these devices can only supply two channels at once. Therefore, in the event that you have three desired programmes clashing at the same time, you could record two in HD and watch live the third using the TV tuner. Without the T2 tuner (or a built in Freesat HD tuner), you would have to watch the "live" programme in SD.
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Old 24-02-2011, 09:12
LCDMAN
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Zandar - you keep insisting in your posts that the designation "FULL HD" means it has a T2 Terrestrial HD tuner, that's the bit which is bollox as it doesn't mean that at all! "FULL HD" makes no reference to the presence of a T2 tuner or otherwise - you keep insisting it does.

This example is from one of your other (monotonous) posts on this subject;

"Aldi are not alone in selling televisions marked as FULL HD READY but which lack the all important T2 tuner that gives you the main channels for free via your aerial in hi-definition." So what, many FULL HD TV's don't have a T2 tuner - that's what the FREEVIEW HD designation is for.

Your (incorrect and badly informed) pontificating on this subject, across several of the forums here, just makes you look a) like a zealot and b) foolish.
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Old 24-02-2011, 09:39
dohboy
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from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready...

"The "HD ready" logo is awarded to television equipment capable of displaying High Definition (HD) pictures from an external source, however it does not have to feature a digital tuner to decode an HD signal; devices with tuners were certified under a separate "HD TV" logo, which does not require a "HD ready" display device. A UK BBC television programme found that this confuses purchasers, many of whom buy HD-ready equipment expecting to be able to receive HD with no additional equipment;[3] they are sometimes actively misled by salespeople—a 2007 Ofcom survey found that 12% were told explicitly that they could view analog transmissions in HD, 7% that no extra equipment was needed, and 14% that HD-ready sets would receive existing DVB-T transmissions in HD.[3]"

The whole "HD Ready" thing has always been extremely confusing both to sales people and consumers and needs a bit of an overhaul I think.

No idea why this zander seems to think "Full HD" implies that it includes a HD tuner, maybe a misinterpretation of the word "Full"? Ideally all HD tvs should include a HD tuner (if they unclude a tuner at all) regardless of whether they are 720 or 1080, but I am not aware of any requirement for them to do so.
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Old 24-02-2011, 10:18
Glawster2002
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I stand by what I stated originally. 'Which' have failed to explain/appreciate that the televisions described as "HD Ready" are not capable of receiving BBC 1 HD etc out of the box yet the ones described as "Freeview HD" are capable of receiving the main HD channels for free when you get it out of its box and plug in your home aerial. This statement is the most important thing that they should have told their readers regarding the purchase of a new television.
The point being tha a television marked as "HD Ready" is referring to the capabilities of the display and not the capability of the in-built tuner, whereas 'Freeviwe HD' is referring to the fact the television has an in-built tuner capable of receiving HD broadcasts, the two are completely different.

Which? researchers said they wanted to watch HDTV, they did not mention how they wished to do so, they were simply asking for a television that was capable of displaying HD content.

As I said before, the point was to show shop staff did not know the difference between 'HD Ready' and 'Full HD'; something which I would have thought is pretty bacis knowledge or someone selling televisions there days, I would have thought, as a customer is bound to ask and would reasonably expect the right answer.
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Old 24-02-2011, 10:27
nancyboy
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The terminology needs overhauling. I'm not confused by it by I can see why the OP is (along with a lot of consumers and shop assistants).

The Which? stuff makes sense to me.
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Old 24-02-2011, 12:52
niall campbell
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The terminology needs overhauling. I'm not confused by it by I can see why the OP is (along with a lot of consumers and shop assistants).

The Which? stuff makes sense to me.
it makes 'Half Sense '

To make sense of all this , just buy a Freeview HD TV

There are plenty people who are quite happy to buy a 720 i telly without the Freeview HD , for whatever reason. Usually its down to price ...................... and at what point is too much for future compatability ?

if the consumer buys any electrical equipment without research is nuts

You can buy a 800 watt kettle or an automatic switch off 2500 watt kettle ,

I bought a DVD player for £ 30 , was I mis sold it because it didnt have Blu Ray at £ 200 extra ?
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Old 24-02-2011, 13:45
Pemblechook
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I would expect a 'Full HD' set to be able to receive Freeview HD without any external box whether that is correct or not....more so if it was 'Fully HD'. A word or expression ends up meaning what most of the population understand it mean not what the originator meant.

Do most 1080 sets have Freeview HD front ends?
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Old 24-02-2011, 13:51
LCDMAN
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I would expect a 'Full HD' set to be able to receive Freeview HD without any external box whether that is correct or not....more so if it was 'Fully HD'.
Then you expect wrong - the "FULL HD" display/TV desgination pre-dates the creation of Freeview HD.

Do most 1080 sets have Freeview HD front ends?
No. As above, the existence of FULL HD 1080 line sets pre-dates the creation of Freeview HD. You can get FULL HD sets with or without a Freeview HD tuner. No biggy - just get a Freeview HD PVR or STB. FULL HD refers to the display capabilities, not the tuner - that's what the addtional Freeview HD designation is for.
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Old 24-02-2011, 13:57
Pemblechook
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Doesn't matter if it is technically wrong or not.

But do that latest 1080 sets have HD Freeview?
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:02
chrisjr
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Doesn't matter if it is technically wrong or not.

But do that latest 1080 sets have HD Freeview?
If they also have the Freeview HD logo they do. if not they don't.
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:06
Emerton
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zandar has a point, the term 'HD Ready' was originally used to suggest that TV's could display HD when it started transmitting, now it means 'they can if you buy something else' -why use the word 'ready' if it's not to fool people into thinking they can watch HD if they buy one.Hey- why do you have to read the small print if the large print is honest!
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:06
Pemblechook
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Where would the Freeview HD logo appear?
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:16
chrisjr
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Where would the Freeview HD logo appear?
On the box, on the manual, on a sticky label on the TV. ANd probably several other places as well.
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Old 24-02-2011, 14:31
Pemblechook
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I have a Toshiba HD TV (It does get ch50 BBC HD etc) and I dont think it has a 'Freeview HD logo'. I cant get to it at the moment as I have a lot junk piled in front of it. I can check in a day or two. I have the manual and there is no logo. There is a stickly label with it on the box though.
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Old 24-02-2011, 15:03
LCDMAN
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zandar has a point, the term 'HD Ready' was originally used to suggest that TV's could display HD when it started transmitting,
Except it wasn't. It refers soley to the DISPLAY capabilities - i.e. the ability to display a 720p/1080i signal IF FED WITH ONE. The HD READY designation makes no reference to the ability to receive HD terrestrial broadcasts - they weren't even beyond the drawing board stage when the HD READY designation launched, no decision made as to using T2 or something else, so how could you include it in a spec??

If YOU though that then YOU thought wrong - but that's not what it means and never has.
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