It reminds me of Bread, but filthier. (And funnier!)

It's crying out for a better slot. And surely that slot has to be 10pm on a Saturday after the BBC News and before MOTD - not too early to need toning down, but not too late to not get an audience. It's where it was a smash hit earlier this year in Ireland. It would complement MOTD nicely, and fill a recurrent scheduling hole for BBC1.

Indeed, with hindsight, they could have aired it at the same time as the Irish in that slot this year and avoided the 2.5m-rated CFWM repeats!

In the US, Chuck's survival chances were dealt a cruel blow last night as it fell to a series low of 1.6 in the demo. Ouch! I think it might have ran out of lives.

The Event was down to just 1.2, in a nightmare of a Monday evening for NBC.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/201...hit-lows/85723

Disaster for L&O: UK. 4.2m with a 10m Corrie lead-in is not acceptable at all. It should be doing much better than this. A 1.6m fall is very poor indeed. Solid for WTD that retained all it's audience (5.9m). It's hard to know what ITV can do with L&O. It bombed in the Thursday slot last year, which is odd considering shows like Kidnap and Ransom, Marchlands and now Monroe have thrived in that slot. Maybe viewers really aren't interested at all in this show.

Solid for Corrie (both episodes had 9.5m for the full slots), and good for Emmerdale and EE too. The clocks change soon so look out how the soaps will be affected. I'd expect at least 0.5m shaved off each soap when the clocks change.

As for The Event. Abit of a shame really. A 3m lead-in did nothing for it. I actually watch the show and don't think it's too bad at all. Scheduling it in the Friday 21.00 slot last year was never going to work when it was up against New Tricks and The Mentalist. Such a shame they have given up on it now as next week the show moves to 23.05.

Richard Osman said Pointless got the show's highest ever opening show ratings yesterday. Anyone know the figure or where I can get it from?

Dancc any idea whether or not The Good Wife is being re-commissioned yet? I know it's in the danger zone with ratings in the States! Thanks

Maybe we gave The Biggest Loser too much of a hard time? I'm guessing L&O: UK is a lot more expensive to make, and yet if the latter continues in a similar vein to last night, then the ratings may prove not too dissimilar.

No change I believe, still one of several on the bubble shows for CBS.

Might have some more info later when TVByTheNumbers updates its cancellation index. But looking at how things stand at the moment, Blue Bloods and possibly even CSI: NY look more likely to go before The Good Wife.

When?

Considering L&O is up against one of the BBC's strongest dramas that usually banks 7m viewers, it is hardly a crisis that people are making out.

Or at least that was the story when WTD ended up with about 2m more than usual on Sunday

I just think ITV should be aiming abit higher on a Monday as it's usually a high rating night with all the soaps that their strongest on a Monday!


It maybe not be crisis, as you put it, but L&O: UK has been performing poorly for quite a while now and with further series/episodes in the can, ITV will be hoping for more than 4m, after a 10m Corrie inhertiance. Obviously the cross over audience with L&O :UK and WTD must be very similar. It's just quite a large drop from last week.

Law and order even struggles against weak opposition, it seriously underperformed last Autumn.



The last series of WTD averaged 6.3m in overnights. Sunday opened on 5.9m. The last series opened on 6.08m against Miss Marple (5.02m), the rest of the run was against Doc Martin/Blue Murder.

http://twitter.com/MrsBrownsBoys/sta...65434431881216

It was retweeted by one of the producers so I think its genuine.

Pretty bad scheduling for the DOI Final. It runs 1940 - 2200 which means nothing is getting launced in the 9pm slot to give it an important boost and the late finish will see it dented if the results shows are anything to go by.


If Biggest Loser was on Thursdays and Marchlands on the Monday would either have been boosted? I doubt it. I think ITV proved the critics wrong for scheduling Biggest Loser on a Monday.


Seems like Andy is living in 2005 when it comes to Waking The Dead figures.

While that's a low rating for Law & Order UK, I think some of the comments have been OTT, particularly the ones which have called it a "disaster" and the show being "very weak". It was obviously going to be significantly dented against a similar genred crime drama and I can't say I'm surprised it was in the low 4's because the competition it was up against was very tough - Waking The Dead is the BBC's 3rd most popular weeknight drama series (behind just New Tricks and Silent Witness) which has established a loyal core audience over its 10 year lifespan and was a 2nd parter when viewers are more likely to stick to it.

I think, perhaps, people need to take LOUK's rating into perspective: How many post-2005 weeknight six-part drama series could've managed a 4m+ rating against a ~6m rated drama like Waking The Dead? Very few, if any dramas, would've done as well. Most new weeknight drama series to have launched in recent years have struggled to average 4m against weak opposition such as: Married Single Other, Identity, Fixer, Mistresses, Accused, Outcasts and a whole lot more on ITV1 and BBC1. We talk about how well Silk, for example, one of the BBC's most successful 6-part weeknight drama series in half a decade, has been doing recently but it's only just about managed to scrape 5m against competition of 2m from the main rival channel - can you imagine how low it'd be against a ~6m rated drama!?

It just shows how hard it has been in the post-2005 multichannel era for weeknight drama series to establish themselves. Shows like Midsomer Murders and Waking the Dead might be getting 6m+ but they launched in a very TV environment, in a time when 'normal' ratings were much higher and despite ratings erosion over the years, due to the high start point they began with, their ratings currently are higher than most new dramas which have begun in the last 5 years. Are Midsomer Murders and Waking The Dead so much better than dramas which have launched in the last few years that they deserve to be getting significantly more numbers? Not in my opinion, but I recognise that they've had the advantage of establishing themselves at a time when 8m+ figures were the norm and they've managed to stay as one of the top rated dramas despite erosion over the years.

I can understand why ITV sees L&O UK as a "keeper". It's capable of ~5m against average competition on Mondays, ~4.5m on Thursdays (which traditionally is better than how ITV1 usually performs in the slot), while falling lower against tough drama competition - that's not bad IMHO when you compare it to other weeknight drama series which have launched in the last five years, especially a show in its 4th series. (It doesn't help that STV has opted out this series but that's another issue). I do think ITV could've scheduled LOUK better and delayed it until after Waking The Dead finished but they must've known in advance it's ratings would fall to the low to mid 4's (after how LOUK held up against New Tricks last year), so I'm guessing they don't mind too much. If they did mind, surely they wouldn't have placed it in that slot and commissioned a further 13 episodes.

One problem is that there are no repeats for either Law and Order UK and Waking the Dead, so far as I can see.

This forces viewers to choose.

Even a late night repeat slot for Law and Order on another day might significantly add to its overalls and is unlikely to lower the Monday numbers much.

But it is pretty clear that a lot of its target audience will be watching WTD for the rest of its run and will regard Law and Order as the more dispensible as it has no must see factor given that they are individual stories and Waking The Dead is in its final series building to a perceived big ending.

Given that last night's Law and Order was possibly the best episode yet and the only one so far I think was superior to the US original then it is hard to know what else to do.

I mentioned once before that making all the episodes rewrites of original US episodes is possibly deterring some viewers and this US story was on UK TV fairly recently. I have seen posts today thinking it was a repeat because of that (ie the viewer likely recalled the screening of the US original).

Seemingly - though - Law and Order has no intent on writing any UK original stories any time soon and relying on recent US episodes (the one previewed for next week looks very familiar to any Law and Order fan) is risky. If there is a base audience of US Law and Order fans then making the UK series in this way for 30 + episodes seems odd.

Rzt - I called L+O "very weak" in terms of its resistance against competition. I stand by that comment, whenever it has faced any form of decent competition in the last two series the viewers have fled in number. Waking The Dead did well but not brilliantly, 5.9m is not what I would call an extremely high rating. I take into account the genre crossover and Waking The Dead being more established and popular but I hear a lot about L+O being one of ITV's top returning series but if that were true it should be getting more than just over 4m.


There is +1 for L+O.

Let's be honest here though - nearly every drama airing against New Tricks or Waking The Dead would experience a week-on-week ratings drop. It's not something exclusive to just Law & Order UK. I imagine if a "hit" like Marchlands, for example, had to go up against Waking The Dead, it certainly wouldn't have got ~5.5m against it and reckon it'd have fallen into the 4's.

I would say both Hustle (~5.5m) and Have I Got News For You (~5.0m) are examples of "decent competition" in the last couple of series - up against Hustle it managed figures of 5.0-5.5m and up against HIGNFY it averaged about 4.5m. That's not what I call "crumbling", as you put it. The Thursday ~4.5m might not be anything to shout out about, of course, but it was rating quite a bit above the slot average and there were other issues pulling down its average (STV opt-out etc). Yes, it's lost a significant portion of its audience against New Tricks and Waking The Dead but those are two of the BBC's top three most popular weeknight drama series, and I imagine most weeknight dramas would experience a pretty big drop against them.


I don't think people really say that. However statistically it's true that L+O is one of the top returning BBC1/ITV1 drama series to have launched on weeknights in recent years. If we look at returning 6-part drama series, what else has launched on weeknights in the last five years which is still going and getting the figures that L&O:UK is or better?

rzt - OK, maybe disaster was abit of a strong word to how L&O: UK performed last night, but I still stand by that's its not good enough. Here are a few of my thoughts about it:

*it had a 10m Corrie lead-in. OK, I know Corrie lead-in's aren't what they used to be, but still that's pretty poor to only hang onto 4.1m considering L&O is capable of much more.
*WTD only had a 2.6m lead-in, so it looks like viewers are actively seeking out WTD, maybe the Corrie viewers jumping ship to BBC1?
*If the Corrie lead-in means nothing, it doesn't explain why Wild At Heart holds up so well after DoI on a Sunday. I know alot of people are waiting for the results, but if viewers didn't like it surely more people would have switched over at 9pm for the first episode of WTD on Sunday night? This didn't happen even though it looks like viewers are seeking for the show on a Monday.
*L&O: UK performs well unless it's faced with an sort of serious competition. Wasn't it getting 4.5m last year against 7m+ New Trick fans? So why is it only capable of 4.1m after a massive lead in and argueably weaker opposition?
*As for ITV expecting it to be dented, I'm not confident of this statement as ITV have made some dreadful scheduling decisions recently, namely, Primeval, and the whole of the current Saturday night schedule. They probably expected it to be dented, but not so drastically.

Yeah L&O's audience was low compared to the lead-in before hand. But plenty of drama series previously have rated worse than that when post-Corrie against much weaker competition. As I said previously, L&O is a show which is capable of ~5m against normal competition on Mondays but inevitably there'll be a dip when up against a "big hitter" like Waking The Dead (okay, WTD might not be getting the ratings it used to get, but relative to most other dramas to air on weekdays, I still classify it as a big hitter).


Like I said in my previous post though, WTD is a 10-year old drama which has a well established audience, helped by the fact that it began in a different TV environment when more viewers used to generally watch drama and it's managed to keep a healthy portion of its audience over the years. It's established itself so much and is a much loved drama that people will actively seek out to watch it in whatever slot it's in. Also, it's not unusual for BBC1 drama to beat ITV1 drama on Mondays at 9pm - it's happened many times before.


I never said the Corrie lead-in means nothing. L&O would certainly have rated even lower without a Corrie lead-in, I don't doubt that. Wild at Heart held up well because it's a non-crime drama, it had a 30-minute headstart, had a better lead-in/sandwich than L&O (the direct lead-in for it between 8.55-9pm would've been quite a bit lower than what Corrie actually got between 8.30-8.55pm), it's an older series so has a more loyal audience, it was its series finale (almost always extra interest) and airs on a Sunday which is the highest-viewing night of the week so a higher chance of two dramas managing to attract good audiences simultaneously.


L&O fell to 3.1m against New Tricks last year.


I think ITV would've expected about ~4.5m, so maybe slightly higher than last night. It's looking at previous trends - L&O lost 38% of its audience vs. its opener against New Tricks last year. So up against Waking The Dead, they must've expected it to lose less than 38% as WTD is not as popular as NT so a more likely estimated drop would've been about ~20%, which it sort of did experience last night.

I didn't think it was very intelligent scheduling by ITV to show Stoke vs West Ham opposite England vs Scotland. Two seasons ago, when the fifth round was played on a Six Nations weekend, ITV and Setanta more or less swapped their usual timeslots around so Setanta showed a Saturday 5.15 match and ITV a Sunday 4pm match, whereas in previous rounds it had been the other way round, partly I would have thought so ITV's didn't go up against the Six Nations, which would have seriously dented it, whereas that was of less importance for Setanta. Given all four teams could have played either day I dunno why ITV didn't do a swap with Birmingham vs Bolton and opt for Saturday 12.45 for Stoke vs West Ham, which would have been better for them, then ESPN could have done a double bill on Sunday. Would also have excused ITV not doing any Saturday night highlights.

On the last part, someone said it was a waste of money to have two presenters for the lottery draws. My theory is that they now only have two draws on a Saturday, as Dream Number has finished and Plus 5 doesn't happen on Saturday, but when Secret Fortune was recorded and edited, several months ago, they weren't to know Dream Number would have finished by then, so left space for three draws. So rather than the show running two or three minutes short, they get two presenters on the lottery so they can do a bit of banter to fill the gap.

Well, that's my theory. I probably shouldn't think so much about the lottery shows.

I'd hardly call 70k a big win - and considering the news at the moment that is still an incredibly poor figure for both 6pm and the 6.30pm bulletin.


Isn't that just tradition though. The networks rarely broadcast scripted content in the summer other than stuff which never found a slot in season - and the smaller networks like USA etc. take advantage of it by throwing in new stuff when the audiences for the main networks are smaller.


Actually considering people have been saying BB needs to be the social experiment it once was, well they've got it.


You do know nudity can be aired after 9pm don't you. Actually, in the case of this show they could probably pass it off as educational and air it any time of day they like.


Cynical it might be, but they could have put an ITV News or Tonight special at 8pm tonight regarding the events in Japan. Whether it would perform better than Lion Country I don't know, but it would earn them some belated PSB points in relation to covering the events of the weekend.


That's why it's on at 11pm from next week then - but although a Heston repeat probably will perform better ratings wise, it's a shame to have no 10pm drama in the C4 schedule at the moment - talking of which, how badly do we think Lily Allen will flop tonight?


Notice too The Only Way is Essex keeps it's scheduling pattern of Sunday/Wednesday for series 2, though with episodes extended to 45 minutes. IIRC last year the midweek episodes tanked without The Xtra Factor providing a lead in, so be interesting to see how it performs on it's own - especially as ITV2 are already spinning off the franchise. (Personally I'd have gone for an hour long episode a week and put it in the idiot slot on Thursdays at 9pm - once Idol is out of the way).

I often wonder how the relationship between Camelot and Endemol and the BBC works with the lottery draws.

For example on a Friday night, OJ Borg has been doing the draw in a decent enough manner for a year or two, but for a period last year they got impressionists to host the draw, as if to big it up (predictable banter with Alan Dedicoat took place 'what would Lorraine Kelly say if she won the jackpot' etc). It was when they introduced the Friday Thunderball draw.

Also every now and then they get guests on the draw to plug something, or get a band on to perform, but it's random from week to week.

I'm not sure what incentive there is for these random extras, are they ratings driven by the BBC, forced on them Camelot to increase the visibility of the draws or what?!

Showing a wildlife documentary series in prime time, is probably PSB enough and does well for their image, even though few are watching.

Quite surprising considering all they apparantly show is shows featuring Katie Price

At least they stopped pairing OJ Borg with Jenni Falconer. The lack of any on screen chemistry whatsoever between those two was quite something. I do think it's a waste having two presenters for such a short broadcast I must admit.

Interesting theory about why, but Alan goes through all the Plus 5 numbers at the end of Secret Fortune, and this probably takes up as much airtime as Dream Number once did, so I'm not sure it's that.

Of course Marchlands would have fallen but I reckon it would have lost 0.6/0.7m tops comapred to L+O's 1.4m.


Apologies if I repeat myself. L+O is an established show now, it wasn't the first ever episode last week, viewers know what to expect when they tune in. The fact is it lost 1.4m viewers week-on-week. Thats a huge drop for any established show. In series 3 it shed 1.3m when New Tricks began and also shed 1m when Five showed a Liverpool Europa League game. I know WTD and New Tricks are big rating shows but if L+O was that strong, that popular it wouldnt be losing so many viwers when competiton is increases. The show is fragile, it does well at mopping up casual viewers but is far too easily squeezed out. I have nothing against the show, from the odd episodes ive seen it looks quite good and engaging. However, its main weakness is that you can easily miss an episode and start watching again a few weeks later, which I think is why it struggles to keep viewers every week.


You seem to have contradicted yourself. You state that people dont say it is a top returning show for ITV then state yourself that if you look at the ratings then it IS a top returning show.