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Digital Switchover & Retunes: Anglia


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Old 06-05-2011, 12:04
OwenSmith
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Compared with where you parents live - everywhere is flat!
My parents' house insurance renewal one year raised the issue that the house is about 100 metres from the River Derwent and might be a flood risk. My Dad asked whether they meant 100 metres vertically or horizontally (a bit of an exaggeration but it made the point), and pointed out that if their house floods from the Derwent then the majority of Holmfirth would disappear beneath the water shortly after. There is also another row of houses between my parents house and the Derwent, and the ridge tiles of this row are lower than the foundations of my parents house. All in 100 metres.
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Old 06-05-2011, 14:05
OwenSmith
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I don't think it has moved. This page is the usual entry point though: http://www.wolfbane.com/articles/tvr.htm

The graphs have always been PS, I remember thinking back when they were first added that it was a strange choice.
This is strange, I was definitely using IE5 on NT4 when I sorted out my DTT installations and I didn't have ghostscript or anything similar installed. I don't recall any problem displaying the graphs.
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Old 06-05-2011, 23:08
C19th Fox
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Its a classic mistake to assume that a green area means reception will not be good - and the reason why the yellow area abruptly stops is because there is nothing else in that area, and the reception has dropped below whats acceptable.

I know this does not help you, but it does show that you area is not within the Sandy Heath area, which is an indication as to how difficult is to get reception in your area from that station.

Andy
Mmm So basically folk out in Wisbech will have trouble receiving full signal strength which is in part confirmed that Digital UK shows variable reception from Mux A & C at a random Wisbech postcode at present.

All this demonstrates precisely why the Belmont transmitter was built for Anglia to give coverage in parts of Cambridgeshire that Sandy Heath could not reach and why the decision to hive it off to Yorkshire was shortsighted.

Would a digital TV signal from a transmitter have the potential to provide the same coverage area as Radio? I am thinking of the Peterborough Transmitter used by BBC Radio Cambridgeshire. Could that offer a solution in providing a terrestial signal to an area that seems to be a loser as a result of a combination of factors - with the coincidental benefit of extending the Anglia/BBC East signal to parts of South Lincolnshire that has more affinity with Peterborough allowing more local choice.
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Old 06-05-2011, 23:47
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... this demonstrates precisely why the Belmont transmitter was built for Anglia to give coverage in parts of Cambridgeshire that Sandy Heath could not reach and why the decision to hive it off to Yorkshire was shortsighted.
2 UHF transmitters were reallocated in the early 1970's.
Belmont was moved from Anglia to Yorkshire because although this meant that viewers on the North Norfolk coast would have the *wrong* local ITV service, a much larger number of viewers in places like Hull, Beverley, Doncaster, and even parts of Sheffield and Barnsley would have the *wrong* ITV service; as they could not receive Emley Moor UHF and Belmont was their only option - so the decision was made on numbers of people, it was not short sighted. There were/are more people in Yorkshire receiving Belmont than there was/is in Norfolk.

Most of Lincolnshire - especially the South & North Kesteven, South Holland and Boston areas of the county could receive Waltham anyway.

Bilsdale was the other UHF station that was planned for one region and then allocated to another. Again, like Belmont, Bilsdale has coverage in places very far apart. There are viewers on Bilsdale very near to Leeds - even south of Leeds who cannot receive anything else. Bilsdale provides the strongest signal to Harrogate and even York itself. But to allocate Bilsdale to Yorkshire TV would mean that viewers in the Tees area, coastal County Durham and even parts of Sunderland would have Yorkshire instead of Tyne Tees. Due to economic reasons in the early 1970s it was speculated that if Tyne Tees could not sell advertising in the Wear/East Durham/Tees area, because Bilsdale was broadcasting Yorkshire, then the company could not survive and thus Bilsdale was allocated to Tyne Tees, and Belmont to Yorkshire.


Would a digital TV signal from a transmitter have the potential to provide the same coverage area as Radio? I am thinking of the Peterborough Transmitter used by BBC Radio Cambridgeshire. Could that offer a solution in providing a terrestial signal to an area that seems to be a loser as a result of a combination of factors - with the coincidental benefit of extending the Anglia/BBC East signal to parts of South Lincolnshire that has more affinity with Peterborough allowing more local choice.
Digital TV is broadcast on UHF frequencies, If by radio you mean "FM" (VHF band II transmissions) then the answer is no - VHF signals travel much further than UHF signals.

Why do you see yourself as a loser? You've already said you can get a signal from Sandy Heath, yes it may not be strong enough, but with a good quality aerial properly installed it may well be enough - I know it is not the regional news you want, but you can also receive both Waltham and Belmont. Between these three transmitters you will surely be able to get something - that hardly makes your area a "loser".

The link I sent you to the map of the Sandy Heath coverage area dates from the introduction of UHF in the late 60's/ early 70's - where you live wasn't intended to be part of the Sandy Heath coverage area 40 years ago - and it isn't now: so you've not lost.

Actually you are a gainer - although there is not much regional TV these days, you might be able, with a clever installation, and luck to get three different regional news programmes, or is that 5 (does ITV+1 on Waltham broadcast West Midlands Central, and Sandy Heath is Meridian News)?

I live in an area where there is only 1 transmitter I can receive, I have no chance of getting any other signal.

You are never going to get Arquiva to move transmissions from Sandy Heath to Peterborough - it ain't gonna happen

Andy
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Old 06-05-2011, 23:51
Big_A
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My parents' house insurance renewal one year raised the issue that the house is about 100 metres from the River Derwent and might be a flood risk. My Dad asked whether they meant 100 metres vertically or horizontally (a bit of an exaggeration but it made the point), and pointed out that if their house floods from the Derwent then the majority of Holmfirth would disappear beneath the water shortly after. There is also another row of houses between my parents house and the Derwent, and the ridge tiles of this row are lower than the foundations of my parents house. All in 100 metres.
I love that response - my Mum (100 miles away) saw there was flooding down the road from where I live on the news and panicked - yes it was nearby: but it was about 40 metres down hill !

Andy
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Old 09-05-2011, 11:56
dazahomestead
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Just seen for the first time the 'switch over' onscreen info message on BBC 2 analogue from Tacolneston. Confirming DSO stage 1 9th November.
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Old 09-05-2011, 12:36
nvingo
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Mmm So basically folk out in Wisbech will have trouble receiving full signal strength which is in part confirmed that Digital UK shows variable reception from Mux A & C at a random Wisbech postcode at present.
When I lived in north Wisbech, I installed a wideband aerial on a two-storey house (pole on end gable, aerial about 1m above roof apex), and a distribution-amp inside in a cupboard near the pole base. I directed this towards Sandy Heath, and even though there are locally warehouses and factories on the heading was able to satisfactorily receive all services pre-DSO.
The same setup could have been directed towards Waltham or Belmont instead.
I don't know what the situation is post-DSO as the current occupant (ex-wife) has had expensive multi-room VM installed gullible.
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Old 10-05-2011, 10:57
OwenSmith
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This is strange, I was definitely using IE5 on NT4 when I sorted out my DTT installations and I didn't have ghostscript or anything similar installed. I don't recall any problem displaying the graphs.
Having checked my filed printouts for my aerial installation at my house, the terrain maps were done on http://www.megalithia.com/elect/terrain.html and I don't believe the Wolfbane maps existed at the time (2003/2004).
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Old 10-05-2011, 13:04
Ray Cathode
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Power up would still tend to suggest an actual physical increase in power, consistent with a different antenna system which can take more power perhaps? Just an antenna change would be more likely to be called a reception change.

So why are they changing antennas in June 2012? Seems a little odd when they could have sorted it out at PSB DSO.

Answering my own question, it looks like a wait for Bluebell Hill's DSO, so that could be good news for East London and West Kent viewers that they will get HD before the Olympics. I guess that the SH panels pointing towards BH will not be on full power.

Also I'll pencil in 27 June for Bluebell Hill.
Looks like one of my better predictions
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Old 10-05-2011, 14:31
a516
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Here's an update to post 1 of this thread showing all of Sandy Heath's change dates:

*** Sandy Heath
Current information, technical details subject to change, especially later retune dates.
Current Analogue UHF Channels (in order of BBC1,2,ITV,C4,C5): 31,27,24,21,39
Pre-DSO Digital UHF Channels (in order of Mux1,2,A,B,C,D): 42, 45, 43, 67, 40, 46

Switchover first stage: 30th March 2011. Shortly after midnight, BBC Two analogue is switched off.
By 6am, high powered BBC-A is on air on the old BBC2 analogue frequency.
Analogue UHF Channels: 21, 24, 31, 39
Digital UHF Channels: 27, 45, 43, 67, 40, 46

Switchover second stage: 13th April 2011. Shortly after midnight, all remaining analogue services ceased. By 6am all digital multiplexes live, new frequencies applied, plus transitional arrangements on the commercial multiplexes, which included Mux D moving to UHF channel 67 and becoming Arq B in 8k mode. Pre- DSO Mux A and C remained in situ.
Analogue UHF Channels: None
Digital UHF Channels (in order BBCA, D3&4, BBCB, SDN, ARQ-A, ARQ-B): 27, 24, 21, 43, 40, 67.
Currently active multiplexes: BBC-A, D3&4, BBC-B, Mux A, Mux C, Arq B.

Additional retunes: 31 Aug 2011. To make way for Sutton Coldfield a week later, Mux A moves from 43 to channel 31 by 6am, freed just after midnight by Waltham.
Digital UHF Channels: 27, 24, 21, 31, 40, 67
Currently active multiplexes: BBC-A, D3&4, BBC-B, Mux A, Mux C, Arq B

14 September 2011: Mux C moves to 67. Arqiva B moves to 48, vacated by Oxford.
Digital UHF Channels: 27, 24, 21, 31, 67, 48

23 November 2011: Mux C moves to UHF channel 52 and becomes Arqiva A. Digital UHF Channels: 27, 24, 21, 31, 52, 48
Currently active multiplexes: BBC-A, D3&4, BBC-B, Mux A, Arq A, Arq B

9 May 2012: Mux A moves to UHF channel 51, becomes SDN in 8k mode.

27 June 2012: PSB multiplex powers increase to final strengths.
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Old 10-05-2011, 14:34
a516
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Not just Sandy Heath's final situation dates were announced today. Here's confirmation on Sudbury's dates, in a revision of post 2 of this thread:

** Sudbury
Current information, technical details subject to change, especially later retune dates.
Current Analogue UHF Channels (in order of BBC1,2,ITV,C4,C5): 51,44,41,47,35

Pre-DSO Digital UHF Channels (in order of Mux1,2,A,B,C,D): 49, 68/56, 48, 39, 54, 50

Switchover first stage: 6th July 2011. Shortly after midnight, BBC Two analogue will be switched off.
By 6am, high powered BBC-A will be on air on the old BBC2 analogue frequency.
Analogue UHF Channels: 51,41,47,35
Digital UHF Channels: 44, 68/56, 48, 39, 54, 50

Switchover second stage: 20th July 2011. Shortly after midnight, all remaining analogue services cease. By 6am all digital multiplexes live, new frequencies apply, plus transitional arrangements on the commercial multiplexes. Mux C and D become Arq A and Arq B, but remain on same UHF channel. Mux A remains in pre-DSO 2k mode.
Analogue UHF Channels: None
Digital UHF Channels (in order BBCA, D3&4, BBCB, SDN, ARQ-A, ARQ-B): 44, 41, 47, 49, 54, 50.

Additional retunes: 16 Nov 2011. Arq B moves to 63.
Digital UHF Channels: 44, 41, 47, 49, 54, 63

27th June 2012: Mux A moves to UHF channel 58, becomes SDN in 8k mode. Arq A moves to UHF channel 60. Arq B moves to UHF channel 56.
Digital UHF Channels: 44, 41, 47, 58, 60, 56
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Old 10-05-2011, 14:45
OwenSmith
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Here's an update to post 1 of this thread showing all of Sandy Heath's change dates:

9 May 2012: Mux A moves to UHF channel 51, becomes SDN in 8k mode.

27 June 2012: PSB multiplex powers increase to final strengths.
Well at least it's in the first half of 2012!
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Old 10-05-2011, 14:50
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27 June 2012: PSB multiplex powers increase to final strengths.
So, does anyone know what power the PSBs are now?

Chris.
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Old 10-05-2011, 14:56
OwenSmith
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So, does anyone know what power the PSBs are now?
And/or which antennas they are on and how much difference the final antennas will make?
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Old 10-05-2011, 15:14
a516
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And/or which antennas they are on and how much difference the final antennas will make?
The antenna for D3&4 and HD mux is Antenna S1. Which doesn't mean anything to me. Only Arqiva will have the full answer (unless someone helpfully posts it here )
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Old 10-05-2011, 16:12
OwenSmith
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The antenna for D3&4 and HD mux is Antenna S1. Which doesn't mean anything to me. Only Arqiva will have the full answer (unless someone helpfully posts it here )
And the other muxes? What antennas are they on?

I thought the plan was that all muxes would be on the big new antennas right at the top of the mast (replacing analogue).
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Old 10-05-2011, 16:16
figrin_dan
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So, does anyone know what power the PSBs are now?

Chris.
My measurements show 40 and 43 are the same as before and 67 is 5dB higher than previously.
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Old 10-05-2011, 16:23
OwenSmith
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My measurements show 40 and 43 are the same as before and 67 is 5dB higher than previously.
I've seen much the same, UHF 40 and 43 are unchanged from pre-DSO. UHF 67 is currently my best mux with 0e0 error rate pre-viterbi and 26db C/N ratio.

But that doesn't answer the question of which antenna they're on. Just because the signal strength is the same as before doesn't mean they're on the same antenna.
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Old 10-05-2011, 16:27
OwenSmith
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I did a manual re-scan on Sandy Heath with my Humax HDR-Fox T2 at the weekend. This time I selected "Network Search" (or whatever it is called) to see what happened. I manually scanned UHF 21 (HD mux) and it then scanned 24, 27, 40, 43 and 67 (but not in that order). Something in the mux must tell it what other UHF channels to scan, because it didn't scan the others.

However it did scan 57 (or was it 52, I can't quite remember) and didn't find anything. What is this meant to be? Network search shouldn't be scanning 7 muxes surely! (on a post DSO site).
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Old 12-05-2011, 19:46
joshua_welby
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For the Price of the Switchover Help Scheme please read my Post below
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Old 12-05-2011, 19:56
joshua_welby
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I just got this Letter today dated the 02 May 2011

It came with a Booklet the Prices for the help is as follwos

Option 1 Standard Option Freeview Digital Box Free
Option 2 Freesat Digital Box and Satellite Dish £16
Option 3 Freeview HD Digital Box £116
Freeview+ Digital TV Recorder £158
Smart Talk Freeview Digital Box £77
Option 4 Freesat HD Digital Box £66
Freesat+ Digital TV Recorder £209
Option 5 TVs with Built-In Freeview and/or Freesat £178

With Option 4 the Freesat+ TV Recorder is more expensive than the Bush Freesat Recorder in Argos,
the Argos Model is Priced at £159.99 £50 cheaper than the Help Scheme one
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Old 13-05-2011, 11:08
joshua_welby
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Here's an update to post 1 of this thread showing all of Sandy Heath's change dates:

*** Sandy Heath
Current information, technical details subject to change, especially later retune dates.
Current Analogue UHF Channels (in order of BBC1,2,ITV,C4,C5): 31,27,24,21,39
Pre-DSO Digital UHF Channels (in order of Mux1,2,A,B,C,D): 42, 45, 43, 67, 40, 46

Switchover first stage: 30th March 2011. Shortly after midnight, BBC Two analogue is switched off.
By 6am, high powered BBC-A is on air on the old BBC2 analogue frequency.
Analogue UHF Channels: 21, 24, 31, 39
Digital UHF Channels: 27, 45, 43, 67, 40, 46

Switchover second stage: 13th April 2011. Shortly after midnight, all remaining analogue services ceased. By 6am all digital multiplexes live, new frequencies applied, plus transitional arrangements on the commercial multiplexes, which included Mux D moving to UHF channel 67 and becoming Arq B in 8k mode. Pre- DSO Mux A and C remained in situ.
Analogue UHF Channels: None
Digital UHF Channels (in order BBCA, D3&4, BBCB, SDN, ARQ-A, ARQ-B): 27, 24, 21, 43, 40, 67.
Currently active multiplexes: BBC-A, D3&4, BBC-B, Mux A, Mux C, Arq B.

Additional retunes: 31 Aug 2011. To make way for Sutton Coldfield a week later, Mux A moves from 43 to channel 31 by 6am, freed just after midnight by Waltham.
Digital UHF Channels: 27, 24, 21, 31, 40, 67
Currently active multiplexes: BBC-A, D3&4, BBC-B, Mux A, Mux C, Arq B

14 September 2011: Mux C moves to 67. Arqiva B moves to 48, vacated by Oxford.
Digital UHF Channels: 27, 24, 21, 31, 67, 48

23 November 2011: Mux C moves to UHF channel 52 and becomes Arqiva A. Digital UHF Channels: 27, 24, 21, 31, 52, 48
Currently active multiplexes: BBC-A, D3&4, BBC-B, Mux A, Arq A, Arq B

9 May 2012: Mux A moves to UHF channel 51, becomes SDN in 8k mode.

27 June 2012: PSB multiplex powers increase to final strengths.
And of course the Sandy Heath Transmitter Event for 2013 will be announced shortly of course either by the end of this year or next year
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Old 13-05-2011, 12:10
OwenSmith
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And of course the Sandy Heath Transmitter Event for 2013 will be announced shortly of course either by the end of this year or next year
I wasn't aware there is an event for Sandy Heath in 2013. Given that all muxes will be on final configuration and full power mid 2012, what can possibly be happening in 2013?
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Old 13-05-2011, 12:17
Ray Cathode
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I wasn't aware there is an event for Sandy Heath in 2013. Given that all muxes will be on final configuration and full power mid 2012, what can possibly be happening in 2013?
As Joshua is the DS poet in residence (see earlier posts) he may be doing a poetry reading under the mast. Ode to a multiplex.
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Old 13-05-2011, 12:24
OwenSmith
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As Joshua is the DS poet in residence (see earlier posts) he may be doing a poetry reading under the mast. Ode to a multiplex.
Alas poor Klystron, I knew him... (with apologies to Hamlet).

and:

If music be the food of HD, play on. Give me excess of it, that clipping in the amplifier the multiplex may sicken and so die. (with aplogies to Twelth Night)
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