The overall standard wouldn't be a very useful concept though would it. Adding a Todd to a Ray and comparing it to a Heather and a Hayley wouldn't tell you much. This series has three very good skaters who might all win in the final - probably no other series has had that. Is Sam as good as Ray or Chris - no. Can Laura or Chloe dance as well on ice as Suzanne or Hayley - no. Can they do the same tricks Clare and Suzanne could - not yet anyway. Is the race as exciting as between Kyran and Clare or Suzanne and Chris - you decide.

i agree its not a good idea having them skate solo for that long - though looking at what past people did in a much shorter solo start, if they could repeat that over and over they would have ended up doing far more.

The interesting question for the final is if they get a new routine instead of the flying. There may be time for someone (or more than one of them) to be given the great routine the series has been lacking so far. At the moment I suspect they could all do better with better material . Will we get to see if they can match the best of the past or will we get to see another rerun of something good, but not great, we have seen already?

Hayley

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-AD4...eature=related

Too short, but he girls tonight couldn't match the spin, turns, arms , acting or the work on one leg... Robin and Nicky were divided but Robin marked her higher than anyone this year and Nicky made no sense given how the routine was choreographed. .....

More obviously ahead of Sam . Ray
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDHDy...eature=related

Suzanne

Even shorter......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DYe9U6v_c0

Of course you could argue all three of those have better music and a better routine and thats helped by the solo skate being grounded into the rest of the following routine.

Indeed, looking at both performances tonight and what some past champions got around this stage, none of this year's choregraphy looks that great to me.

God Ray is incredible isn't he.

Hayley's spin was from a standstill - she didn't attempt to enter it from moving which both Chloe and Laura did (Laura with reasonable results while Chloe messed up tonight). She did have a very pretty spiral but she was much slower over the ice which makes a huge difference to the difficulty and didn't do anything in the way of footwork that was better.

But doesn't time play a part? I know these zelebs have top trainers and are practising most days of the week, but we can't really expect them to reach professional standard in such a short time, especially when we consider the pressure of performing in front of thousands of tv viewers.

The thing I like about this year's final line-up is it's the most unpredictable ever. Sam has the best natural talent, Laura has the best partnership, Chloe's been on the best journey. What will the viewers rate the most? I was a quivering wreck watching the semi, I'd better stock up on tranquillisers for next week!

I thought the solo skate was a great challenge and really separated the wheat from the chaff. There's a lot of semi-finalists from the past who'd do no better or worse than this year's.

Maybe the new voting system's giving a false sense of perspective. Marking out of 10 instead of 6 gives much more room for nit-picking. Perfect 10s are probably going to be as rare as hen's teeth and all the more special for that, especially outside of the final.

I'd love to see another all-stars special with the likes of Ray, Hayley, Kyran and Chris pitted against each other.

Laura's solo last night was much better for me & had more difficulty. Laura's spin was still better last night, even though it was not as good as the one she did in ultimate skills week. The only area where Hayley is better is that her lines have a bit more finesse but that's hardly surprising given Hayley's background. I'm not saying that Hayley is a rubbish skater cos she isn't but she just isn't as good overall as the likes of Suzanne, Clare & now Laura.

I'm not sure if the overall standard of skating has been rubbish, I don't think so but it is hard to tell when the cameramen have been amateurs. They have been exceptionally rubbish.

Spinning the show out for over two hours every week with adverts and filler hasn't worked for me either.

I have to defend Hayley a bit here. Though I agree she was over-rated, her routines did not rely excessively on lifts, at least not compared to other good female DOI contestants.

And she was certainly not carried by Dan for most of Jai Ho. There were only 3 lifts, and the one at the end was over quickly.

There was a lot of dancing in place, or nearly in place, however. That, rather than lifts, is what allowed Hayley to do impressive things that weren't skating.

...

BTW, I think it's strange that Jessica Taylor is seldom mentioned. She was at least one of the best female skaters whose been in DOI.

Indeed they are very far from professional. Not a one of them would pass even the first national level skating tests (of which there are 10 levels) with the skills they have after doing DOI but I was only concerned here with a comparison of the skating skills of some of the female contestants.

Probably very unscientific but it so happens this question of comparing series has been on my mind lately. To this end I've been going over clips of past series at various stages. Of course you get anomalies but it's fascinating to see the standard generally rise across a series. Then, when comparing, let's say, semi finalists or finalists from one year to the next (I guess having more time you could compare more widely!) you are faced with the questions - was the overall standard in one series higher than another - and has it really got generally better each year? I suspect on the latter issue, we might feel a bit cheated if it hand't??

Feeling TRES bored, switched it on and it all looked REALLY SAD compared to what I like to call its heyday. The three judges where once there were four and the attempts at introducing new ideas (screen painting, WTF?) and format, often a signal that the show is getting a little "tired", though I expect reatings are still bizarrely very high....

And how can THAT standard be semi-final ?

Don't reckon the standard is rubbish at all, we have to bear in mind that maybe the judges have been told off for over-marking in the past. Agree to some extent that there have been a number of routines that have been too safe and on a plateau a little bit. Having said that these programmes go through the motions and next year I hope they go for performers that have more WOW factor and pazaz.

The 5 judges idea was a lot better and I cannot understand why the management have cut the number of people adjudicating the show. With whether it's to give power back to the audience who knows? but basically next year it needs to return to it's former glory. It maybe a cost cutting measure why they only have got 3 judges this year.

Maybe I was just lucky that the series's (*) we took an interest in featured people like Suzanne Shaw? (talking about her skating abilities in case of doubt )

(*) what's the plural of series?

Last year they had only one outstanding ice dancer and that was Hayley. This year they have three (all in the final) + Vanilla Ice and Geoff were good too so I don't agree with the OP at all. It's much more exciting this year because I haven't got the foggiest who is going to win whereas last year and the year before it was pretty much a foregone conclustion.

I don't think anyone has ever been as good as Ray Quinn though.

Celebs like her were interesting and had a spark, the modern day celebs seem as if they lose energy too quickly thus aren't as motivated to perform as you'd like them to be. Hopefully next year they should come out firing on all cylinders.

Laura has spark and is brave and interesting.

She sure did

We all said last night, considering it was a semi final night, the standard this year is way, way down on previous years.
I much prefered the lone dancing rather than the flying one though. I think you are able to decide much better on the capability of the dancer when they are alone rather than flying.

Apart from the Geoff bit I agree

She's about one of a few that throws herself into what she does. Also very charismatic too.

I don't think marks from different years can be meaningfully compared, especially now that they've changed to a 10 point system.

Re Hayley Apart from the spin, there wasn't anything very impressive in Hayley's solo sequence. The spin was from a standing start, and though her position was good in her forward spiral, it was done in a straight line.

If you think what Hayley did on one leg is better than what Chloe did, I think you should watch their routines again.

(I didn't watch Sam's, and I can't stand to rewatch Ray, so I'll have to skip that one.)

Re SuzanneI didn't think there was anything very impressive in Suzanne's either, though she does move her lifted leg from behind her to in front during her straight-line 'spiral'.

However, I agree that this year's choreography has been rather poor, though I think there have been occasional good routines.