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The new Midsomer Murders with Neil Dudgeon Thread


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Old 23-09-2011, 06:52
Charenton
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If you watch the repeats of the old MMs currently being shown on ITV you would think the Ben Jones character is a completely different person. Weird.
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Old 23-09-2011, 08:27
Lizzie60
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You may not like his acting or the character he plays but to there is nothing to loathe or dislike about Neil and as I now know him personally I can say that, he is one of the nicest and most generous guys and actors I have ever met. I know alot of actors because I used to run my webdesign company for actors and he is by far the most down to earth and genuine.

There are plenty of actors I think are rubbish but I certainly don't loathe/dislike them to slag them off the way Neil is on this forum. Neil's career spans over 2 decades and he has played many a straight character over the years such as DI Duncan Warren in Messiah with Ken Stott. That was quality acting! If you haven't seen it - SEE IT!

Some people clearly aren't taking to the new MM. Fair enough but I know plenty of people that do like John Barnaby and the new MM and prefer it to the old one. I've followed Neil's career for 17 years and have watched him in so many different roles, the only shows he's ever done that have come under some criticism are Life of Riley and Midsomer and if are the only 2 roles that have been critized then I think that's pretty damn good in a career of over 25 years.

To me Neil is and will always be a class act!
I'm sure he is to you saz, but sadly he isn't a class act in this. He is only human and we humans can't be good at everything. He has poor stories and poor direction and appears unable to cope with the whole thing. I loved him as George in The Mrs Bradley Mysteries, but MM isn't light comedy.
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Old 23-09-2011, 09:51
Perarduamolly
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I was terribly disappointed in Wednesday's episode, the first time ever I thought "well, this is rubbish" while watching MM.

Although I was very impressed with how the cop shot the glass out of the tractor without damaging the man sitting behind it in any way whatsoever - not even a bit of glass on his face!

Neil Dudgeon just isn't doing it for me, I hasten to say that this is nothing personal and I've always liked him in anything else I've seen him in. Maybe they should have promoted Jones? It worked for Lewis. I think they are having to dumb Jones down to try and keep the new Barnaby in pole position, the old Jones would be way ahead of him in detective skills as well as being a pleasant character - something the new Barnaby certainly isn't.
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Old 23-09-2011, 11:06
Justabloke
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Don't understand what you mean by that as the format is exactly the same,
Different Barnaby, but same assistant, same locations, similar murders, so I can't see where it is supposed to be different.
I think it's another situation of "a series too far."
In the end, some series drag on due to the loyalty of some viewers to particular characters keeping the ratings at an acceptable level.
The reality kicks in that it was past its time, when someone else takes over the lead role. They're on a hiding to nothing regardless of what sort of performance they give.
Ok, it doesn't "feel" like the same programme, truth is, had I come to MM via this series I doubt I'd be much of a fan.
I've taken to recording and watching the old episodes being shown on ITV @ 4 and am finding them much more enjoyable even tho a lot of them I've seen before.
And thats the point, I should never enjoy a repeat more than something new.

They *may* have got away with it if they had tried a Taggart... kept the name and the central premise but changed just about everything else (as I understand it)

TBF I had already made the point earlier in the thread that the programme should have ended.
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Old 23-09-2011, 11:11
roger_50
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Saw most of this the other night. Pretty poor stuff.

Although I was never a huge follower of the show, I did like it - and I can totally understand where the complaints are coming from regarding the new series.

They might as well have just made a completely different detective series with a different name.
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Old 23-09-2011, 11:26
stupidwheelie
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Although I was very impressed with how the cop shot the glass out of the tractor without damaging the man sitting behind it in any way whatsoever - not even a bit of glass on his face!
That puzzled me too.
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Old 23-09-2011, 13:09
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TBF I had already made the point earlier in the thread that the programme should have ended.

Ah! Sorry about that, I must confess I hadn't read all twenty-two pages of this thread,.
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Old 23-09-2011, 18:29
BlackTarantula
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It was so obvious that the cop was a party to the killings (they used menacing music in his presence a couple of times, plus it was suspicious how he kept pointing the finger at other characters and had such a big role throughout for his debut episode)... so much so that I expected there to be a twist (though I didn't guess that it would be the cop himself getting killed).

Jones keeps acting a bit childish. When he thinks up a motive for the killings and asks Barnaby what he thinks, only for Barnaby act disinterested and unconvinced, Jones overreacts in a way that a police officer who's used to the job wouldn't with his superior. Perhaps Jones is that fed up with John. Makes you wonder if this could be a way of eventually writing him out, since the pair seem to have their moments... or maybe it's just part of their chemistry. Who knows.

Anyone notice the really bad effect (poor CGI?) of the rose petal falling when the widowed Mrs. Preston was looking at Aiden's engagement ring in disgust?
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Old 23-09-2011, 20:20
enna_g
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I am afraid I haven't read all the posts but why have they made Jones a prat? He wasn't one before and I don't like it - it is quite cringeworthy. This is the first MM with the new Barnaby I have watched through to the end as I just couldn't stand the new Barnaby character and the way they have dealt with the character of Jones. It was pretty heavy going, I just hoped it would improve and Jones would actually turn back into the character he was.
I think they should just end it - they should have finished it when Tom Barnaby retired imo and they are just flogging a dead horse.
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Old 23-09-2011, 20:33
Doghouse Riley
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I am afraid I haven't read all the posts but why have they made Jones a prat? He wasn't one before and I don't like it - it is quite cringeworthy. This is the first MM with the new Barnaby I have watched through to the end as I just couldn't stand the new Barnaby character and the way they have dealt with the character of Jones. It was pretty heavy going, I just hoped it would improve and Jones would actually turn back into the character he was.
I think they should just end it - they should have finished it when Tom Barnaby retired imo and they are just flogging a dead horse.

I think it's more a pathetic attempt at milking, rather than flogging the dead horse.
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Old 23-09-2011, 20:48
thomscn
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[quote=Lizzie60;52987258]I'm sure he is to you saz, but sadly he isn't a class act in this. He is only human and we humans can't be good at everything. He has poor stories and poor direction and appears unable to cope with the whole thing. I loved him as George in The Mrs Bradley Mysteries, but MM isn't light comedy.


Sorry to disagree Lizzy...but I think he is better than Mr Nettles
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Old 23-09-2011, 21:44
CollieWobbles
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MM should have finished when DCI Barnaby retired.(the REAL Barnaby, not the imposter).

John Nettles made the show what it was, and I could never, ever imagine anyone else taking over from him. There are certain characters played by certain actors who would just be plain wrong played by someone else - a prime example would be Ken Barlow in Corrie, or Gene Hunt played by anyone other than PG. Never could anyone else play the Gene Genie, ever. It is not to do with their acting ability, you could hire the best actor ever born, but it wouldn't work, as it isn't them. It would be like seeing another person as one of your family members- they may say they are, but you just don't believe them, and the whole feel is wrong.

Misomer isn't 'just' a cop show, the Barnaby's were an integral part of it. Remove the heart of the show, and there's no show - simple.
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Old 23-09-2011, 22:00
kittykat30
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[quote=thomscn;53001507]
I'm sure he is to you saz, but sadly he isn't a class act in this. He is only human and we humans can't be good at everything. He has poor stories and poor direction and appears unable to cope with the whole thing. I loved him as George in The Mrs Bradley Mysteries, but MM isn't light comedy.


Sorry to disagree Lizzy...but I think he is better than Mr Nettles
Having seen John Nettles perform shakespear on stage, I would have to fully disagree. JN is the better actor IMO. Neil has been good in various parts, but this isn't his best work.
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Old 24-09-2011, 19:22
Eater Sundae
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MM should have finished when DCI Barnaby retired.(the REAL Barnaby, not the imposter).

John Nettles made the show what it was, and I could never, ever imagine anyone else taking over from him. There are certain characters played by certain actors who would just be plain wrong played by someone else - a prime example would be Ken Barlow in Corrie, or Gene Hunt played by anyone other than PG. Never could anyone else play the Gene Genie, ever. It is not to do with their acting ability, you could hire the best actor ever born, but it wouldn't work, as it isn't them. It would be like seeing another person as one of your family members- they may say they are, but you just don't believe them, and the whole feel is wrong.

Misomer isn't 'just' a cop show, the Barnaby's were an integral part of it. Remove the heart of the show, and there's no show - simple.
But he isn't meant to be playing Tom, it's a completely new character.
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Old 24-09-2011, 21:48
lilsaz
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But he isn't meant to be playing Tom, it's a completely new character.
I totally agree Eater Sundae. Neil isn't playing the new Tom Barnaby. He's playing John Barnaby a totally different character.
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Old 24-09-2011, 21:59
lilsaz
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[quote=kittykat30;53004640]

Having seen John Nettles perform shakespear on stage, I would have to fully disagree. JN is the better actor IMO. Neil has been good in various parts, but this isn't his best work.
I have also seen John Nettles on stage and I think he is a wonderful actor and have met him many times and he is a lovely man but I have also seen Neil on stage too, infact in every play he has done in the last 17 years and for me I enjoy watching Neil more than any other actor. It just my personal preference. And alot of my friends that are also fans of Neil feel the same.
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Old 24-09-2011, 22:31
kittykat30
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[quote=lilsaz;53029652]

I have also seen John Nettles on stage and I think he is a wonderful actor and have met him many times and he is a lovely man but I have also seen Neil on stage too, infact in every play he has done in the last 17 years and for me I enjoy watching Neil more than any other actor. It just my personal preference. And alot of my friends that are also fans of Neil feel the same.
Neil is not as good as John in MM IMO. John brought a charm that Neil doesn't bring. I don't mind the new Barnaby, but he is not a patch on Tom, and the show is not a patch of what it was in the past. I don't think Neil is all to blame for that, but he is part of the reason, he doesn't fit the show, at least so far.

I would think only fans of Neil would prefer MM now tbh. The ratings aren't what they used to be for a reason. The show is a bit past it's sell by date. I will continue to watch, but no one can claim it's a better show now, it's just blatantly untrue. They haven't based an episode on the novels in a few years.
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Old 24-09-2011, 23:07
CollieWobbles
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But he isn't meant to be playing Tom, it's a completely new character.
They have made a mistake there. Maybe he isn't playing Tom, but he IS playing a Barnaby, which is close enough to seem like he is taking over the character. They should have named him something else entirely, and not made him related.There is only one Barnaby.
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Old 24-09-2011, 23:37
Killary45
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They have made a mistake there. Maybe he isn't playing Tom, but he IS playing a Barnaby, which is close enough to seem like he is taking over the character. They should have named him something else entirely, and not made him related.There is only one Barnaby.
The show is called "Barnaby" in many of the 200 overseas countries in which it is shown, so it was necessary to keep the same name. If he was not related to Tom Barnaby then it would have been a rather odd coincidence that the new chap had the same surname.

But even if they had recast Tom Barnaby there is no reason why the actor should play the part in the same way as John Nettles. Think of the different actors who have played Miss Marple or Sherlock Holmes.
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Old 25-09-2011, 10:04
lilsaz
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I hate this forum everytime I try to post something it screws it up. Ignore previous post. Below is what I was meaning to say.

The ratings started going down long before Neil joined MM.

Again it's personal preference to me MM is better now with Neil than before with John and I think John Barnaby does have charm. As much as I like John I think his acting can abit wooden at times. Infact in the articles that featured in the papers during the build up to Series 14 there were a sizable amount of people that said they didn't like John's acting style atall which really surprised me.

There's also plenty of people who have commented on the Official Midsomer facebook page and other forums that they prefer John Barnaby to Tom Barnaby.
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Old 25-09-2011, 11:15
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I hate this forum everytime I try to post something it screws it up. Ignore previous post. Below is what I was meaning to say.

The ratings started going down long before Neil joined MM.

Again it's personal preference to me MM is better now with Neil than before with John and I think John Barnaby does have charm. As much as I like John I think his acting can abit wooden at times. Infact in the articles that featured in the papers during the build up to Series 14 there were a sizable amount of people that said they didn't like John's acting style atall which really surprised me.

There's also plenty of people who have commented on the Official Midsomer facebook page and other forums that they prefer John Barnaby to Tom Barnaby.
Just because some prefer ND to JN doesn't mean that it's better for Midsomer Murders.
It's not just the change of lead character that's at fault. The part of Jones has changed for the worse. There seems to be a smaller budget now which is clear to see.
It's not MM anymore, it's a pale imitation.
I'm sure ND is a fine actor, he just needs a show that suits him.
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Old 25-09-2011, 11:50
kittykat30
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I hate this forum everytime I try to post something it screws it up. Ignore previous post. Below is what I was meaning to say.

The ratings started going down long before Neil joined MM.

Again it's personal preference to me MM is better now with Neil than before with John and I think John Barnaby does have charm. As much as I like John I think his acting can abit wooden at times. Infact in the articles that featured in the papers during the build up to Series 14 there were a sizable amount of people that said they didn't like John's acting style atall which really surprised me.

There's also plenty of people who have commented on the Official Midsomer facebook page and other forums that they prefer John Barnaby to Tom Barnaby.
I'm sorry but I don't believe he is more popular, the evidence isn't there to prove it. He has only been on for a handful of episodes, so how he can suddenly be more popular than a character who was on the show for about 12 series, is absurd. He isn't getting a great reception from a lot of what I read online, and his presense has not upped the ratings. None of those things say he is more popular than Tom Barnaby. I know you're a big ND fan, but I don't think you're being honest about how the show really is.

MM is not what it used to be, and it isn't as popular as it used to be. ND can't take the blame for that, but I will lay down money that with him on the show the ratings start to decline even more. I don't mind him, but he doesn't have the charm of old MM, when it was very popular. He is not going to revitalise the show, it's not going to happen. ND is there purely to keep the show ticking along a bit longer. When people think of MM after it's finished it will be John they think of not Neil, Neil is just the replacement for the last 2-3 series. Because I doubt it goes beyond that. I like ND as an actor, but so far he is not a success on MM.

I'm not actively criticising ND or the show. I don't mind the new Barnaby, and I will continue to watch the show until it ends. But I am being brutally honest about it all. I have no vested interest in the argument being won either way, but from what I know this is the truth of the matter as of now. MM is in decline, there is no way to get around that. It happens to every longterm show, ND will not save it.
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Old 25-09-2011, 12:38
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I'm sorry but I don't believe he is more popular, the evidence isn't there to prove it. He has only been on for a handful of episodes, so how he can suddenly be more popular than a character who was on the show for about 12 series, is absurd. He isn't getting a great reception from a lot of what I read online, and his presense has not upped the ratings. None of those things say he is more popular than Tom Barnaby. I know you're a big ND fan, but I don't think you're being honest about how the show really is.

MM is not what it used to be, and it isn't as popular as it used to be. ND can't take the blame for that, but I will lay down money that with him on the show the ratings start to decline even more. I don't mind him, but he doesn't have the charm of old MM, when it was very popular. He is not going to revitalise the show, it's not going to happen. ND is there purely to keep the show ticking along a bit longer. When people think of MM after it's finished it will be John they think of not Neil, Neil is just the replacement for the last 2-3 series. Because I doubt it goes beyond that. I like ND as an actor, but so far he is not a success on MM.

I'm not actively criticising ND or the show. I don't mind the new Barnaby, and I will continue to watch the show until it ends. But I am being brutally honest about it all. I have no vested interest in the argument being won either way, but from what I know this is the truth of the matter as of now. MM is in decline, there is no way to get around that. It happens to every longterm show, ND will not save it.
Actually, Joyce and Cully I suspect will be missed by many, more than than the new Barney Bee's wife welcomed.
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Old 25-09-2011, 12:38
lilsaz
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I'm sorry but I don't believe he is more popular, the evidence isn't there to prove it. He has only been on for a handful of episodes, so how he can suddenly be more popular than a character who was on the show for about 12 series, is absurd. He isn't getting a great reception from a lot of what I read online, and his presense has not upped the ratings. None of those things say he is more popular than Tom Barnaby. I know you're a big ND fan, but I don't think you're being honest about how the show really is.

MM is not what it used to be, and it isn't as popular as it used to be. ND can't take the blame for that, but I will lay down money that with him on the show the ratings start to decline even more. I don't mind him, but he doesn't have the charm of old MM, when it was very popular. He is not going to revitalise the show, it's not going to happen. ND is there purely to keep the show ticking along a bit longer. When people think of MM after it's finished it will be John they think of not Neil, Neil is just the replacement for the last 2-3 series. Because I doubt it goes beyond that. I like ND as an actor, but so far he is not a success on MM.

I'm not actively criticising ND or the show. I don't mind the new Barnaby, and I will continue to watch the show until it ends. But I am being brutally honest about it all. I have no vested interest in the argument being won either way, but from what I know this is the truth of the matter as of now. MM is in decline, there is no way to get around that. It happens to every longterm show, ND will not save it.
I'm not saying Neil is more popular than John atall. Simply that there is support for Neil in this re-vamped MM series.
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Old 25-09-2011, 13:57
kittykat30
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I'm not saying Neil is more popular than John atall. Simply that there is support for Neil in this re-vamped MM series.
Of course Neil fans will like him in, that doesn't tell us anything. The show hasn't been re-vamped at all. Other than his character being different to Tom, there is absolutely no changes to the format. The current MM is the same MM it's always been only with less quality in the storylines and the main character isn't as charming as the old one. It's not like Neil has made MM some new show, he hasn't. He's just the replacement main guy, he reign isn't anything new in terms of content.

MM was going down in quality before Tom even left, it's just having a new main character is making that decline more obvious. It all honesty they should have ended MM when JN wanted to leave, but ITV decided to milk it by just throwing in a new Barnaby. It's a easy schedule filler that ITV wanted around for a couple more years. I am a MM fan so will stick to with it till the end, and I am reserving judgement on just how much of a success or failure ND till he's been in at least a series or more. But I won't blindly say it's still a great show, it's not. It's a watchable show, but nothing like it was. And after 14 years you can't expect it to be.
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