I'm sorry but once the music has started, off-ice is off-ice whether the contestants choose to just stand there/walk down steps or put in some relevant dance moves is their choice and certainly doing relevant dance moves off-ice seems a much better use of the time to me.

Chloe spent far longer off the ice than Sam including setting up some of the well known dirty dancing moves and launching into the iconic lift from off-ice.

Why would you think it's not cheating to spend a while off ice at the beginning but somehow cheating to be on ice at the start and then off-ice for a short time and come back on again. On his way to getting off-ice Sam did some complicated sideways footwork - not all of which was shown on camera. Laura even once she was on ice spent a bit of time not moving but posing.

It's complete rubbish to say it's OK to spend part of the routine off-ice as long as you don't move or don't dance and only if you dance is it suddenly cheating- which is ridiculous anyway as to be cheating it would have to be against the rules of which there were none to specify how long you could be on or off-ice for.

This time you are clutching at straws. No-one cheated anything and Sam spent less time off the ice during his routine than Chloe and only slightly longer than Laura.

I didn't want Sam to win but his showcase was the best (although I was slighlty distracted by all the half-naked men in Laura's -great costume choice!) while Chloes, (who I did want to win ) was disappointing.

Sam wasn't overmarked, all of his routines were great. However the injury......please!

Veri I am so utterly confused by the point you are trying to make. I get your original point - Sam danced off the ice - fair enough. But the times show that he spent more time on the ice than the other two, but apparently they weren't dancing so it is OK? I don't understand the logic.

I too agree with diamond. It was overall a very interesting and quite difficult show case, thoroughly enjoyed it. I really can't see the cheating accusation holding up, presumably it was approved by T&D and anybody else who made the rules.

You`re not the only one totally confused !!

hehe!

You couldn`t make it up

Well said.


That's because there isn't any

I'm totally confused as well i would have thought since the title of the programme had dancing in it, dancing off ice would be better than not doing anything when you're off ice? He was on ice for longer or similar lengths to the girls as has been demonstrated.

Apart from the fact that I think Veri has - sort of

With icedragon on this; it's far better to dance than to posture about if you MUST be off ice, although I do see Veri's point that the whole off-ice stuff was a bit rubbish anyway.

Really though, did nobody else boggle at the telly and go 'Tens for THAT?' when the marks came up? It hardly seemed worth it, off-ice or no off-ice

So Chloe`s performance was 25 secs shorter than Sam`s and she spent 30 secs less time on the ice than him

To think the OP accused Sam of cheating

I don't think anyone should ever get a 10 in anything on the basis that nothing ever perfect and where are you left to go when you see somthing that is better.

I'm surprised by the difference in times. I understand they can only edit to the music but Chloe's dance was really short - at the time It felt like it was just the three lifts plus the off-ice stuff.

Not really - it was the final, feel good factor etc etc, just like SCD 10s are expected to be handed out in the final.

Always think the scores are pretty irrelevant - the position on the leader board is more important through the series.

Is the problem with the off-ice dance moves that a trained dancer doing a chunk of something they came into the competition being able to do at an extremely high standard could well sway the voters into thinking the performance was great when in actual fact it has naff all to do with what the programme's about? Because if so, I kind of understand that now and can see why someone may have a problem with it (although I still think it's OTT to call it cheating).

Someone spending 30 seconds (or however long) off the ice performing flashy dance moves that they can already do is going to have a "wow factor" advantage over someone who isn't a trained dancer and has to rely on what they've learned to do on the ice to entertain the crowd. Using skills you came into the competition with (dancing/acting/gymnastics for example) to help your skating and your performance on the rink is fine - it goes with the territory - but chucking in a dance routine that you could do before you ever had a skating lesson to add pizzazz is a bit unfair.

Toys are being pushed out the pram judging by this thread that has been started.

However not unusual in DOI.

Agreed to a point but at least in the past it's usually been done "on the ice". This was the first time we saw a contestant off the rink doing the sort of moves they've been specifically trained to do for years.

Thing is of course, all that dance training helps those with it perform on the ice as well. The fact that all of a sudden an opportunity arises to perform off-ice is IMO no more of an advantage at that point than it is when they're on the ice and competing against people with less training - particularly in the final, where everyone's already at a high standard.

Oh I understand that but given that trained dancers are going to be at an advantage (provided they can skate) with their routines on the ice anyway (posture, projection, positioning etc), giving them a further advantage by letting them use their highly developed skill without even vaguely making it a part of their on-ice skill at such a crucial stage could be seen as a step too far.

I'm playing devil's advocate a bit here but I think I do see and understand at least part of the point Veri was trying to make. Laura and Chloe's off ice sections were less relevant because they weren't making use of a previously possessed skill to sway voters. Sam's dance routine was a seamless addition to his showcase and (for me at least) certainly added to the overall effect and wow factor. However, the fact is that it has nothing to do with the point of the show; Sam could have done that bit of his routine months before he ever had a skating lesson.

Sam could also skate before the show started so like Chris he could skate and like Ray he could dance and no it isn't a level playing field nor ever will be so as long as they are all playing by the rules which they are, then you can't go round accusing anyone of cheating as Veri has done.

ITV are well aware that if you took out all the lifts and tricks and had all beginner skaters you would get on the whole a show no-one would bother to watch. The pros make the beginners look good there's no doubt and if you actually looked just at the skating skills none of the celebs are very good (even Sam toepushes) and none of the routines would score any points in a real ice dancing competition but that's not what this is.

I've read this thread rather quickly, buit, so far as I can see, no poster at all accepts the OP's contention that Sam was in any way cheating. This must be a DS record.

Of course it isn't a level playing field - never was, never will be, never can be. However, is there a need to uneven the field any more by letting someone who already has a big advantage make use of that advantage in a setting that isn't even on the ice? It's clearly not against any rules though (even if there are any rules) so it's not cheating in any way, shape or form. Just another way the dancers now have of pulling further ahead. Not sure I like that. Liked Sam's routine though - definitely some way ahead of the other two for me even without the rinkside dance routine .

Glad I'm not the only one who's noticed that, especially when he's skating backwards. Surprised Robin didn't mention it at some point

[quote=-Sid-;49060822]I thought Sam deserved every mark he got - overall, he did more skating than either of the girls who spent a lot of their showdances in lifts.

i agree i really enjoyed his showcase