Telephone socket not working (not BT master).
I have the BT master socket in the hallway and i have 2 wall mounted extension sockets (1 in the living room and 1 in the main bedroom).
The extensions are wired internally (under the floorboards i assume).
The bedroom extension is working (totally dead). I have investigated the wiring and it's a little weird.
BT black wire comes into the flat and is connected to the master socket as normal. From the master socket there is a white cable running to the living room (this extension works fine).
Now, from the living room extension there is a white cable that then runs out to the main bedroom, this is the extension that is dead.
The actual socket mounting works when tested with other wiring, so it is obviously the wiring at fault somewhere.
I guess i'm going to have to run a new wire to the bedroom, but as lifting the floorboards etc is not an option, what are your suggested methods for doing this?
I suppose I could attach a new wire to the end of the old wire at the socket and then pull it thru to the living room socket, but i'm concerned i'll do this and it'll get snagged and break and then i'll end up with no wire to feed thru.
Any suggestions?
Have attached a drawing of the layout (blue is the master socket, red are the extensions).
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1499080/plan.jpg
The extensions are wired internally (under the floorboards i assume).
The bedroom extension is working (totally dead). I have investigated the wiring and it's a little weird.
BT black wire comes into the flat and is connected to the master socket as normal. From the master socket there is a white cable running to the living room (this extension works fine).
Now, from the living room extension there is a white cable that then runs out to the main bedroom, this is the extension that is dead.
The actual socket mounting works when tested with other wiring, so it is obviously the wiring at fault somewhere.
I guess i'm going to have to run a new wire to the bedroom, but as lifting the floorboards etc is not an option, what are your suggested methods for doing this?
I suppose I could attach a new wire to the end of the old wire at the socket and then pull it thru to the living room socket, but i'm concerned i'll do this and it'll get snagged and break and then i'll end up with no wire to feed thru.
Any suggestions?
Have attached a drawing of the layout (blue is the master socket, red are the extensions).
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1499080/plan.jpg
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Comments
Make sure the wires to the bedroom socket are properly pushed into the slots in the terminal blocks on the back of the living room socket. DO NOT use a screwdriver to do this. That will damage the terminals and could stop both sockets working. You need a proper IDC tool like this
http://www.maplin.co.uk/ipc-insertion-tool-929
Other places sell similar tools.
Use one of those to push the wires firmly into the terminal slots. It is possible for the wires to look like they are pushed in but they are not actually making contact. Do the same at the bedroom socket.
If the terminals are OK then you may need to replace the cable. I would not be in the least bit surprised to find it has been run under the carpet, especially across the door ways. Trouble is every time someone walks over that bit of carpet the cable is stressed a little. Give it enough time and the cable will break.
If you do replace the cable make sure you do not repeat that error. Take the cable round door frames. You will also need to drill some holes to get from one room to another. Might be easier to go through the door frame rather than the wall.
It also may be easier to run the new cable to the master socket rather than the living room. If the master is the NTE5 type with a removable lower half to the front plate that is. If it is a one piece front plate do not go anywhere near it with a screwdriver as you are not supposed to touch any BT wiring!
But if it is a NTE5 type then drop the lower half of the panel off and attach the extension cable to the terminals you'll find behind it. Which should have the living room wires already attached.
BT type cable uses pairs of wires with matching colours, so you will have a blue wire with white stripe and a white wire with blue stripe (and orange and maybe green and brown pairs).
Use the blue pair and connect one wire of the pair to terminal 2 and the other to terminal 5. Make sure you use the same colour wire at each end. (doesn't really matter which way round they go though). Most modern phones don't need any other connections. However if the bedroom extension doesn't ring it may need a connection on terminal 3. Use one of the orange pair for that.
NB the NTE 5 may only have four terminals for the extensions, they will be labelled 2 to 5, there is no 1 and 6.
definitely not under the carpets. these were fitted during the building of the block of flats (less then 5 years ago). these are flush wall sockets and the cables definitely go into the wall cavities.
running a cable from the master to the bedroom isn't really an option unless i lifted the floorboards and that's not an option.
lifting all the carpets also isn't really an option.
i think my only option really is the run a new cable as they already exist, so need to know the best method for going this.
sigh... i didn't ask for this sort of advice. i was quite specific about what i was asking for.
and for the record, i need the phone socket to connect a sky multiroom box to, i don't use the phone sockets for telephones at all.
Pardon me for breathing.
it's just that i see this a lot in here. people offer advice that wasn't asked for in the first place. maybe some don't read all the post and just skim.. who knows.
i was quite specific in what i was asking for though, so your advice really wasn't applicable.
I would be tempted to double check the wires are properly terminated at each socket first before you do anything else. That is the simplest solution if it works.
If the extension cables are two or more pair then try using another pair in the existing cables. If they have been installed properly the spare pairs should be wound up in the back of the socket. So just lift the existing pair off at each end and try another pair.
Trouble is if the fault is a cable break then if you pull the cable through from one end all you might end up doing is pulling half the cable through, ie just the bit between whichever socket you pull from to the break. Which is no good if you want to pull a new cable through.
nah no mice, i'm on the second floor of a fairly new development.
yes they are terminated properly as we had a BT engineer out originally to test the master socket for a different issue, and at the time he checked the extensions and the connections, and deduced the issue wasn't with them (he wouldn't do any more though as only the master socket was his remit).
yes only 2 wires are being used on the extension wiring (and the rest are wound up). good idea to try another 2 wires.
yes this is the issue.
if i was at the stage where the only thing left was to try and pull the cable thru with a new one attached to one end, what would be the best way to attempt it? i assume just using the electrical tape wouldn't be enough to keep the two ends attached.
You didn't ask for this but this could be used if you can't repair the cable.
Wireless phone jacks
yes it's an option but would rather get the existing socket working if i can.
If you have a multimeter you could check the 4 cores of the cable to see which one was broken and just use another core.
If you have (or know someone who has) a soldering iron then you could strip back the wires to expose some copper and solder the two lots together.
What you should end up with is what looks like a continuous cable with a bit of tape wrapped round the middle. If you do it well enough it should not be too much thicker than the cable itself and pretty strong.
You will need someone to help with the pulling bit. Basically you need one person at the socket where you've joined the cables to feed the cable through the hole and one person at the other socket to pull the cable through.
Be gentle and if it gets stuck don't be tempted to give it a good yank
Of course this relies on several things. Most important is that the old cable is in fact intact enough to pull through completely. Secondly that it is not clipped to a joist or whatever anywhere. And if it goes through holes in joists or whatever that the holes are big enough to allow the joint through. And there are no really sharp bends that the joint cant bend enough to get round.
the extensions are only using 2 wires, solid blue connected to 5 and white/blue stripe connected to 2 (at both ends).
i disconnected both ends of the non-working extension and used 2 different wires (solid green and white/green stripe) - still dead.
also swapped over the faceplates and extension still dead - so can rule out a faulty faceplate.
so it seems that the cable must be faulty - and worryingly sounds like there might be a break in the actual cable somewhere.
http://www.maplin.co.uk/domestic-multimeter-37279?c=froogle&u=37279&t=module
Alternatively, use a tone/bleep cable tracer. Takes a bit of skill, but will still indicate breaks & shorts ...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/cable-tracker-with-tone-generator-46536
http://www.rapidonline.com/1/1/2791-cable-tester-digital-multimeter.html
i would have no idea how to use one to be honest.
Then go to the other end of the cable and touch each phone wire one at a time against the other bulb terminal. If it lights then that phone wire is intact. If not then fairly obviously it is broken. Repeat until you have tried all the wires in the phone cable.
If all wires in the phone cable are broken then chances are that somewhere there is a serious break in the cable. Which means using it as a pull wire to run a new cable probably won't work.
how would i use a multimeter to test each wire?
Attach one end of the test lead wire to one of the probes of a multimeter set to either the Ohms (resistance) setting or a continuity test buzzer setting if it has one.
Then connect one of the phone wires to the other terminal of the meter. At the other socket touch the bare end of the same coloured phone wire to your test lead. On Ohms an intact wire should result in a very low reading, close to zero. On Continuity test the buzzer should sound.
Repeat this for each wire in the phone cable.
i have the potentially broken wire already running from socket A to socket B (bare wires at both ends).
i need to run a new wire with bare ends to socket A and socket B? do i connect one end of the new wire to one end of the broken wire?
then at the other end touch one end of the probe to one end of the new wire and one end of the broken wire ?
One thing that occurs to me that would make it a bit easier doing it solo. At socket B twist all the bare ends of the phone cable and the bare end of the test lead together in one bunch. Try and twist it as tight as you can to ensure all the wires are in contact with each other.
Then at socket A attach one meter probe to the bare end of the test lead. Then touch the other meter probe to each wire in the phone cable individually. As long as you only touch one phone cable wire at a time the meter will show if that wire is intact or not. Twisting all the wires together at the other end just saves you having to rush between sockets to test each wire, you can do it all from socket A end.
That involves a lot more testing checking each individual core against all the others to sort that one out.
Yes but you do not have to find a long test lead.