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Panasonic 2010 freesat recorders XS380/BS780/BS880 are they really that slow? |
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#1 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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Panasonic 2010 freesat recorders XS380/BS780/BS880 are they really that slow?
hi,
i have been looking for a freesat pvr for a little while now, i have researched just about every single one on the market including the new samsung and echostar one's and still cant make my mind up. i have now turned my attentions to the panasonic units, i have done a lot of research on both the 2009 and 2010 models and know they have a few quirks just like any other pvr, but the main thing that seems consistent on all the reviews i have read is the speed of the thing, are they really that slow. i wouldn't mind it being a bit slow when going through the menus to change settings and record to disc etc, but is it really that slow at the general pvr functions like changing channel via the info bar or the epg, and setting up recordings, or using the direct navigator menu. also does anyone know if the 2010 models are an improvement over the 2009 models in terms of speed. as i understand it the 2010 models have better freshened up menus and can rewind live tv and have an extra row of buttons on the remote, but thats about it. Thanks |
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#2 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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I've had the original Tivo, Topfield TF5800, Panasonic BS750, Panasonic XS380 and now the Foxsat HDR.
The Tivo and Toppy were probably my favourites for their hackability. The BS750 felt like a much slower device but it did the job ok. I changed it for the XS380 in November last year as I didn't need Blu-Ray but did want the networking in the XS380. Unfortunately, I have had a string of failed recordings and 'U99' errors on the XS380 which I never encountered on the BS750. It has just gone away again for them to try and sort out the problem. When it was away for the first time, we borrowed the Foxsat HDR and the family all commented how they preferred the HDR over either of the Panasonics on the basis of speed and user-friendliness. So I decided, when it was fixed, the XS380 would go but I did order the Samsung in the meantime as, on paper, it should have been better than the HDR. That will still possibly be the case when Samsung sort out the software but, in the meantime, I've bought the HDR and installed the excellent networking software from Raydon. When you implement some of the great tips found on here (pressing Schedule and Red for the guide, being one) then it becomes really quite slick to use. I think that the only things I would like to see on the HDR now are the ability to record from the buffer and a more instantaneous deletion of recordings. At the moment, the Samsung is the only device which would tempt me away from the HDR but only when it was proven to be stable. HTH
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#3 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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thanks for all the info.
i think the foxsat hdr is probably the safest bet, there are a lot of very good reviews about it but it does have a few problems that are mentioned quite a lot like the remote being poorly laid out and only being able to use it straight on. but i really like the look and feel of the XS380 and was hoping to hear some good comments about it, i can buy it for only a bit more than the foxsat hdr and it has the extra features of playing and recording to dvd's. if you hadn't had the faults with the XS380 would you be keeping it? when changing channel via the info bar and epg is it so slow that it becomes annoying or is it acceptable? did you notice much difference between the menus of the 2009 and 2010 models, i read they had been improved on the 2010 models and were also supposed to be quicker, did you notice any difference in speed between the XS380 and BS750, also did you use the live rewind on the XS380, if so did it work well? i am not highly technical or anything, i wont even be using the usb and ethernet ports, i will only be using it as a basic pvr and dvd player, do you think the XS380 is adequate or will i end up throwing it out the window and buying the hdr. your help is much appreciated is good to find someone who has owned so may of the machines i am interested in. Thanks |
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#4 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
thanks for all the info.
i think the foxsat hdr is probably the safest bet, there are a lot of very good reviews about it but it does have a few problems that are mentioned quite a lot like the remote being poorly laid out and only being able to use it straight on. Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
but i really like the look and feel of the XS380 and was hoping to hear some good comments about it, i can buy it for only a bit more than the foxsat hdr and it has the extra features of playing and recording to dvd's.
.Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
if you hadn't had the faults with the XS380 would you be keeping it?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
when changing channel via the info bar and epg is it so slow that it becomes annoying or is it acceptable?
. Also, I know I would have a very hard sell when the Panny comes back to get them to swap back again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
did you notice much difference between the menus of the 2009 and 2010 models, i read they had been improved on the 2010 models and were also supposed to be quicker, did you notice any difference in speed between the XS380 and BS750, also did you use the live rewind on the XS380, if so did it work well?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
i am not highly technical or anything, i wont even be using the usb and ethernet ports, i will only be using it as a basic pvr and dvd player, do you think the XS380 is adequate or will i end up throwing it out the window and buying the hdr.
There are little things which the HDR scores over like being able to turn off the genre menu when you launch the guide. It is only one more button press to go through the genre menu but it is obviously quicker to be able to go straight into the guide and it is one of those operations you do a lot. The delete is better on the Panny. It has a dedicated delete key and it is much quicker at doing the operation. On balance, I don't think you'd end up tossing the XS380 if you went that route. It's not a bad machine at all but I'm still glad I tried the HDR .
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#5 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 182
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thanks for all your answers.
i will be using it with a pioneer kuro plasma so unfortunately the viera link wouldn't be any use, but you never know it might be useful in the future as every other tv i have ever owned has been a panasonic, and if anything ever happens to the kuro it will be replaced with either a new panasonic or a second hand kuro. unfortunately i cant try the XS380 out, we have massive currys and comet stores in our area but neither have the XS380 in stock, currys have the freeview XW380 in stock which looks to be exactly the same except for the tuners, but its not hooked up to anything, but at least i could have a look at it. comet have the BS780 hooked up, but not to a satellite feed they are just showing bluray on it. ![]() just so you know, the model numbers ending in 50 are the 2009 models and the models numbers ending in 80 are the 2010 models. i must admit im very tempted to give the XS380 a try, its the bargain price of £285 delivered thats tempting me and i do like panasonic equipment. if i bought one and didn't like it i dont think i would loose a great deal if i sold it on. but then again i know the HDR is a wise buy and then there's the echostar HDS-600RS. ![]() just one last question if you don't mind, did you notice any difference in picture quality between the HDR and the XS380, they both seem to get good reports especially the XS380. Thanks |
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#6 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
unfortunately i cant try the XS380 out, we have massive currys and comet stores in our area but neither have the XS380 in stock, currys have the freeview XW380 in stock which looks to be exactly the same except for the tuners, but its not hooked up to anything, but at least i could have a look at it. comet have the BS780 hooked up, but not to a satellite feed they are just showing bluray on it.
![]() Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
just so you know, the model numbers ending in 50 are the 2009 models and the models numbers ending in 80 are the 2010 models.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
i must admit im very tempted to give the XS380 a try, its the bargain price of £285 delivered thats tempting me and i do like panasonic equipment. if i bought one and didn't like it i dont think i would loose a great deal if i sold it on. but then again i know the HDR is a wise buy and then there's the echostar HDS-600RS.
![]() ![]() The Echostar styling would be a bridge too far for me and I don't really have the need for the Slingbox facility but it looks to be a very capable box. Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
just one last question if you don't mind, did you notice any difference in picture quality between the HDR and the XS380, they both seem to get good reports especially the XS380.
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#7 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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thanks again.
we had a panasonic store in middlesbrough but it shut down. ![]() we have a richer sounds but they don't seem to stock them looking at their website. i think i will have a look at the returns policy on play.com to see how difficult it would be to return it if i wasn't happy. i know what you mean about the styling of the echostar, i would like to see one in the flesh so to speak, but the closest john lewis we have is in newcastle which is only 40 miles away but still a bit far to travel just to have a quick look. i think the echostar might be a bit expensive for me now anyway as ive just had to spend £345 to get my car through its test which i wasn't expecting, but if it turned out to be something exceptional i might get the credit card out, but it doesn't seem to have much more to offer over the HDR, except the sling feature but i wouldn't really use it that much. im still a bit worried about your XS380 being faulty, doesn't fill me with confidence. ah decisions decisions |
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#8 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3man
im still a bit worried about your XS380 being faulty, doesn't fill me with confidence.
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#9 |
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Join Date: Jun 2000
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I have a BS780 on order given the recent price drop. Amazon were (when I last looked) doing them for £410-£418 and my local Audio-T is getting me one in at £429, which would be about the same price once I've added a delivery charge to the Amazon price (I wouldn't go for the 3-5 day free delivery on something like that).
If the unit turns out to be a dog then getting it back to a local shop is a lot less hassle than waiting in for a courier to collect. The feature set looks good although the manual seems to miss bits out -- what does the component output give with Freesat HD and BRs for example -- I couldn't find that. I am a little concerned over the reported slowness, but having a dual tuner Freesat unit and BR player in the same box for roughly the price of separate units seems like a good idea to me. I did check with a local Panasonic shop who told me that the Freesat units will remain current until November this year. I'm not sure I buy that given the recent price drops but hey-ho. Clem |
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#10 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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i have decided not to go the panasonic route, i think the slowness thing will probably annoy me too much, at the moment i get annoyed if my sky hd box slows down even slightly. so i am now trying to decide between the foxsat HDR and the echostar HDS-600RS, i have read a few reports now that the echostar is quite fast and efficient. the only thing putting me off the echostar is that someone on hear said the fan is noisier than the HDR and i hate fan noise.
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#11 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clem
The feature set looks good although the manual seems to miss bits out -- what does the component output give with Freesat HD and BRs for example -- I couldn't find that.
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#12 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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Quote:
I have a BS780 on order given the recent price drop. Amazon were (when I last looked) doing them for £410-£418 and my local Audio-T is getting me one in at £429, which would be about the same price once I've added a delivery charge to the Amazon price (I wouldn't go for the 3-5 day free delivery on something like that).
If the unit turns out to be a dog then getting it back to a local shop is a lot less hassle than waiting in for a courier to collect. The feature set looks good although the manual seems to miss bits out -- what does the component output give with Freesat HD and BRs for example -- I couldn't find that. I am a little concerned over the reported slowness, but having a dual tuner Freesat unit and BR player in the same box for roughly the price of separate units seems like a good idea to me. I did check with a local Panasonic shop who told me that the Freesat units will remain current until November this year. I'm not sure I buy that given the recent price drops but hey-ho. Clem have you goy yours yet Clem? the XS380 is back on my list now, ive had second thoughts and i think the pros might outweigh the cons. the other unit i fancy is the echostar hds-600rs but at £350 its just too expensive. i would be nice to hear your thoughts on the bs780 especially on the speed of it. |
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#13 |
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Join Date: Jun 2000
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My dealer has had a fax from Panasonic saying that it should be delivered today (Friday) but right now, no -- still waiting.
Sigh. Clem |
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#14 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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well after trying out the echostar and humax hdr boxes and having returned both of them i have now turned my attentions back to the panasonic units.
i returned the foxsat hdr due to picture quality, the picture was just too soft for my liking, i hated it and couldn't wait to return it. the echostar had fantastic picture quality but had software problems due to early release so it had to go back. so can anyone tell be how the panasonic units compare to the humax hdr in terms of picture quality, do they have a sharper picture. i have read very good reports on the panasonic units picture quality but then again i had also read good reports on the picture quality of the humax. so has anyone owned both and can tell me how they compare. Thanks |
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#15 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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I did see your post saying that you'd immediately returned the HDR because of the picture quality which made me feel visually challenged but then I realised that this very much depends on what your benchmark is. When viewing Freesat HD I've only used my Panasonic G20's internal tuner, the XS380 and the HDR. Whilst I haven't actively attempted to compare their output, none of them have struck me as noticably better or worse than the others.
I received my XS380 back from its hols at the Panasonic repair facility last week and so I currently have the XS380 in use sitting on top of the HDR (much to the family's dismay) as I wanted to make sure the XS380 really was fixed. I tried to devise a more objective test for comparing the output of each and so I took a photo of a HD program which kept going to a fixed camera in the studio and so should be comparable. I've looked at the photos and really can't make out any difference. However, if you ever frequent photography forums then you'll know that there are normally pretty diverse opinions of the same test images .I've hadn't tried the Echostar and so didn't know how poor the HDR was in comparison but even though I now do, I'll stick with the HDR for the time being. If you didn't like the quality of the HDR then I don't think you'll like the XS380 but there really is only one way to find out and that is to get one and give it a go. Let's face it, there aren't that many alternatives out there at the moment .
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#16 |
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i think your right the best way is to buy one and give it a go, the place i would buy from has a 14 day no quibble returns policy. the one i am looking at is a manufacturer refurbished for £238 which seems a fair price, i wouldn't be surprised if it was almost like new.
you right as well when you say there are not many alternatives at the moment- samsung smt-s7800 is a total disaster. echostar i would try again in the future once software and minor build quality problems sorted out, i adopted a bit to early. so my only options at the moment are a panasonic unit or go back to sky. i have sent an email to the seller to ask if it is a grade A or B refurb, i am assuming manufacturer refurbs come in A and B. if they come back and say grade A i will buy. |
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#17 |
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Sounds like a good plan. I'd offer you mine but it's got too much history
. I'd be interested to hear what you think of the picture quality though.
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#18 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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i will report back when i get one, i want to order it now so i could get it for the weekend, but i would rather find out first if it is a grade A or B.
i wonder if Clem got his? ive noticed a lot of people go quiet once they get one of these panasonic units, i cant work out if thats a good or bad thing though. |
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#19 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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sod it took the chance and ordered it anyway.
seems these descriptions of graded items are open to interpretation anyway, with it being manufacturer refurbished i would expect it to be very good anyway. |
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#20 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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Good luck! All the factory refurbished items I've bought so far have been excellent. They have been in pretty much as new condition with just damaged boxes and the like.
Having had 3 "U99" errors on mine in the past few days, I don't think mine is going to be staying with us for long .
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#21 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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had the xs380 a few days now and am very happy with it, it works faultlessly and is very efficient. not as slow as i thought it would be, when doing most things it is no slower than the foxsat hdr. it was a graded item but everything was just like brand new, it doesn't look like it has ever been used.
picture quality is definitely better than the foxsat hdr. i would say it is about the same as the echostar hds-600rs which was excellent. only have one slight concern but it may be normal, when the hard drive is running there is a very faint vibration through the whole box, you can't hear it but you can feel it if you put your hand anywhere on the box, anyone else experience this, i hope it is normal as i don't want to have to return another freesat box. i might write a small review on it when i get back off holiday and have done some more testing, i haven't tried copying to disc or anything yet just used the general pvr features. |
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#22 |
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I think we'll have to agree to disagree on our experiences with the XS380
. I've had my 'repaired' XS380 back for the past week and have been using it in the hope that it was now ok. It's not and Panasonic, to their credit, are swapping it out for a new one. The only thing I find quicker on the XS380 versus the HDR is deleting recordings and I still cannot see any obvious difference in the picture quality between the two.Small irritations with the XS380, for me, are not being able to by-pass the genre menu before going to the guide and the loss of audio and video when going to the guide and recordings menu. The automatic playing of the recording in the thumbnail when hovering on the entry also seems unnecessary and irksome at times. If I wanted a combined DVD player then I would still seriously consider the XS380 but I don't and so I won't even bother putting it to a household vote as to which to keep when the replacement turns up. I can't say that I can feel any particularly strong vibrations on mine over and above what I would expect of a device with a hard drive and I'm presuming that there's not a disc in the DVD drive on yours which is spinning up. I hope that the XS380 ends up ticking all of the boxes for you though as I know it can feel like something of a quest at times! |
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#23 |
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Join Date: Mar 2011
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i totally agree with your three points in paragraph two, cant see the need for the thumbnails but they look good. the genre thing isn't it like that on all freesat boxes, something to do with the way freesat broadcast the epg, its been like that on the three ive had.
i have just been comparing the vibrations between the xs380 and my panasonic ex75 dvd recorder. the ex75 has hardly any vibration at all, you really have to try hard to feel anything at all. now that ive done the comparison it makes the xs380 seem very severe in comparison, its much worse. there is a bs780 set up in my local comet, i am going to check it out today. the more i think about it the more i think it is faulty, when i first set it up i had to put a bit of blue tack on it between the front panel and the metal casing to stop a vibrating noise. also when i open the disc tray it vibrates. |
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#24 |
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Quote:
...the genre thing isn't it like that on all freesat boxes, something to do with the way freesat broadcast the epg, its been like that on the three ive had.
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#25 |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
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I've certainly never had any concerns over noise or vibration on the BS750 or XS780 so you may well have a faulty unit. I doubt that the blue tack is part of the design spec
. The BS750 could be quite slow if there was a disc left in the drive and it aways had a tendency to want to play that when it turned on. Not leaving discs in the drive was the easiest way to sort that one.As GC has said, there's an option on the HDR to turn off the genre menu. As the Guide must be the most accessed menu then I guess just taking out this single step will have the benefit of making the HDR seem quicker even if the speed of the menus are much the same. Yes, the thumbnails do look nice but I decided that when you are navigating around the recordings menu and it has started to play the same file several times over then it would probably have been better to just allow you to hear the channel playing in the background. |
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