[zinnie]

Hi, I am sure that anyone out there with a Blu Ray Player can answer this for me.........When the player 'upscales' a DVD
does it retain the same screen format ,say 16:9, as the DVD.,
or does it change it to something else like 4;3.
Thanks.

[biddenden_sue]

The HDMI connection automatically outputs everything at 16:9, so occasionally if you have anything running through that connection that is 4:3, it'll look stretched, and you'll need to override the aspect ratio using the TV remote.

Does that help?

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by zinnie

Hi, I am sure that anyone out there with a Blu Ray Player can answer this for me.........When the player 'upscales' a DVD
does it retain the same screen format ,say 16:9, as the DVD.,
or does it change it to something else like 4;3.
Thanks.

Usually you can configure this (at least you can on mine) so that it either adds bars on the side so you keep the 4:3 ratio (pillar boxed in 16:9 frame) or it will fill the screen - effectively stretching it. What it can't do is pass a switching signal to tell the TV to switch to 4:3 because HDMI doesn't support aspect ratio switching for HD resolutions.

What I do is let it stretch and then use the TV to make it 4:3 again, this lets me use the grey bars on my Panny plasma. Not all TVs will support this though.

[knowndeserter]

It my experience all the DVD players and Blu Ray Players I have had a setting for maintaining the aspect ratio. All 4*3 stays at 4*3 pillarbox and 16*9 stays 16*9. So there is no need to use the TVs aspect settings, it may not even be available on the HDMI source.

Admittedly, this function will be on the players menu under a term that will not make much sense, but it should be there.

[knowndeserter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

What it can't do is pass a switching signal to tell the TV to switch to 4:3 because HDMI doesn't support aspect ratio switching for HD resolutions.

I have many commercial DVDs that have some material 4*3 and some 16*9 and these play fine without any need to switch anything, so I can't back up what you say.

[zinnie]

Thanks everyone , you have given me the information I need.
I wanted to be sure that when I play my 16:9 DVD's they didn't
get transformed into another format during the 'upscaling' process. If it did it would 'put me off' buying a Blu Ray Player.

[tokenblack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by biddenden_sue

The HDMI connection automatically outputs everything at 16:9, so occasionally if you have anything running through that connection that is 4:3, it'll look stretched, and you'll need to override the aspect ratio using the TV remote.

Does that help?

Thats not true at all.
The only upscaling device I know that cannot present 4:3 correctly and upscale at the same time is Sky+.

The V+ , the PS3 and Bluray players can be set to display 4:3 as 4:3 .
All you need to do is set it properly

[diablo]

My Sony upscales to the same format as is on the DVD via the HDMI connector.

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowndeserter

I have many commercial DVDs that have some material 4*3 and some 16*9 and these play fine without any need to switch anything, so I can't back up what you say.

I don't need you to back up what I say, just read it properly.

I never said you couldn't have auto switching over HDMI just not a HD resolutions.

If you are upscaling and still getting correct framing then the DVD/Blu-ray player itself is adding bars to a 16:9 frame when showing native 4:3, it is not sending any switching signal.

[pocatello]

Default retains aspect, anytihing else would involve zooming and general badness.
Upscaling is simply mapping a smaller number of pixels to a larger number, in the least ugly way possible, you don't actually get anything more. Anything displayed on a 1080p flat panel is "upscaled" if it isn't 1080p to begin with.

[Nigel Goodwin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocatello

Anything displayed on a 1080p flat panel is "upscaled" if it isn't 1080p to begin with.

Not at all,it's not 'upscaled' if the source if 1080i either, the resolutions are identical.

But in case, the panels themselves aren't really 'i' or 'P' in any case, they don't work that way

[knowndeserter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

I don't need you to back up what I say, just read it properly.

I never said you couldn't have auto switching over HDMI just not a HD resolutions.

If you are upscaling and still getting correct framing then the DVD/Blu-ray player itself is adding bars to a 16:9 frame when showing native 4:3, it is not sending any switching signal.

Whether the box switches to a native resolution or outputs with added sidebars is largely irrelevant to most people as the OP just wanted to know if 4:3 was available over HDMI. As I have said, there are many televisions that do not have a 4:3 mode on the HDMI feed, so the point you are making, while accurate is not available or relevant to the majority.

As apposed to a 16:9 mode on a 4:3 television there is no picture benefit to be gained by the reverse as I don't think anything 4:3 is encoded in a 16:9 frame animorphically to utilize a larger horizontal resolution.

[tokenblack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowndeserter

Whether the box switches to a native resolution or outputs with added sidebars is largely irrelevant to most people as the OP just wanted to know if 4:3 was available over HDMI. As I have said, there are many televisions that do not have a 4:3 mode on the HDMI feed, so the point you are making, while accurate is not available or relevant to the majority.

As apposed to a 16:9 mode on a 4:3 television there is no picture benefit to be gained by the reverse as I don't think anything 4:3 is encoded in a 16:9 frame animorphically to utilize a larger horizontal resolution.

Whether a 4:3 image is presented in that way is dependant on the playback device - not the tv.

There are not "not many" tv's that do not have a 4:3 mode , there are in fact none .

If you are viewing via an HD source then the frame is 16:9 , end of story.
If something 4:3 is displayed then you can choose to have it stretched and distorted to fill the 16:9 frame.

If the device is set correctly to display a 4:3 image as a 4:3 then thats how it will appear on the screen but it will still be within a 16:9 frame as the display device will add sidebars to fill the frame.

If you watch a 4:3 movie on C4HD or Bluray the image will be 4:3 but its pillarboxed within a 16:9 frame .

This is why subtitles on a 4:3 Bluray will often stray into the black sidebars - not possible if it was only a 4:3 frame as with sd.

Look out for Civilisation on BBC HD - presented the same way.
Unlike sd there is no anamorphic enhancement required for virtually all HD content and in any case its not possible to play with the image as easily as you can with sd .

[knowndeserter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tokenblack

There are not "not many" tv's that do not have a 4:3 mode , there are in fact none .

I was only using information absorbed via this forum, but apparently bobcars can see post 3. Any dispute would be if that mode was available on the HDMI source. On my tv it isn't, just on the analogue and other ext sources.

[knowndeserter]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tokenblack

Whether a 4:3 image is presented in that way is dependant on the playback device - not the tv.


If the device is set correctly to display a 4:3 image as a 4:3 then thats how it will appear on the screen but it will still be within a 16:9 frame as the display device will add sidebars to fill the frame.

Is that not a contradiction or are you just stretching a point?

[tokenblack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowndeserter

Is that not a contradiction or are you just stretching a point?

Playback device = player
Display device= tv/monitor

[tokenblack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowndeserter

I was only using information absorbed via this forum, but apparently bobcars can see post 3. Any dispute would be if that mode was available on the HDMI source. On my tv it isn't, just on the analogue and other ext sources.

Bobcars post does not say that.
When he says you can configure it he means that you are able to tell the playback device what to do.

The player/ps3 etc will always send out a 16:9 frame.
But you can choose whether the 4:3 image is sent out by the player as a stretched image to fill the 16:9 frame entirely or is sent out by the player as a 4:3 picture with sidebars .

In either case , the player sends out a 16:9 frame.

Some tv's will disable all the ratio/zoom settings when viewing via an HDMI source .

But if you are watching an HD or upscaled image via HDMI you are already viewing a 16:9 frame - so if the programme is 4:3 the rest of the frame is filled with bars which is why you cannot stretch it - because its already 16:9.

SD is always 4:3.
With widescreen prgorammes its the simple addition of the WideScreen Switching flag that instructs the tv to stretch the image to fill the 16:9 screen.
If the sd broadcast is a 4:3 programme then in most cases its broadcast with no WSS flag so it won't fill your screen but because its 4:3 you can stretch it yourself if you want to using the tv controls.

Although its not 100% accurate - the easiest way to think of it is by taking sd as 4:3 and HD as 16:9.
So if the HD broadcast is 4:3 its still really 16:9 , but you can't tell that the sidebars have been added by the broadcaster whereas with sd the bars are blank screen.

Phew. It really does sound confusing doesn't it.
And all you need now to confuse even more is some pedant to pop up and mention the BBC HD thats anamorphic

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by knowndeserter

Whether the box switches to a native resolution or outputs with added sidebars is largely irrelevant to most people as the OP just wanted to know if 4:3 was available over HDMI. As I have said, there are many televisions that do not have a 4:3 mode on the HDMI feed, so the point you are making, while accurate is not available or relevant to the majority.

The area where it isn't irrelevant and where I specifically made my point was for those who are plasma owners and want to use the TV's grey bars rather than the black bars added to the 16:9 frame by the Blu-ray/DVD player.

Do you think that since most people don't own a plasma I should not give information pertaining to those TVs nor point out what I do with mine? Of course if you are an LCD owner then you would probably just let the player add the bars and not have to do manual switching like I do when the 4:3 image fills the frame.

[tokenblack]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobcar

The area where it isn't irrelevant and where I specifically made my point was for those who are plasma owners and want to use the TV's grey bars rather than the black bars added to the 16:9 frame by the Blu-ray/DVD player.

Do you think that since most people don't own a plasma I should not give information pertaining to those TVs nor point out what I do with mine? Of course if you are an LCD owner then you would probably just let the player add the bars and not have to do manual switching like I do when the 4:3 image fills the frame.

I think my Panasonic LCD has the option of grey bars but they looked so bad I changed it to black.

It may well have been a connected device but I can't think what it could have been that would have added grey bars other than the tv

It arrived with grey as default

Although the bars would be for 4:3 and not HD of course

[bobcar]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tokenblack

I think my Panasonic LCD has the option of grey bars but they looked so bad I changed it to black.

It may well have been a connected device but I can't think what it could have been that would have added grey bars other than the tv

It arrived with grey as default

Although the bars would be for 4:3 and not HD of course

It's all down to personal taste but I "adjusted" to grey bars very quickly and now no longer notice them. That was helped by the thought I wasn't risking damage to my brand new plasma, now it's older I don't worry much about that and often watch with black bars when shown on an HD channel (such as is often the case on Channel 4 afternoons with HD 4:3 presentations).

It's unlikely the other device added grey bars though technically there's no reason why they can't. As you say that would have been for an SD non-upscaled signal.