If you fairly add in the BBC3 repeat which around 800,000+ Eastenders viewers choose to watch most nights then the story may be different.

Ah, but to use the ITV1+1 argument...how sure can we be that they're new viewers and not some of the 9m+ watching again?

You cant be sure with any repeat viewing what percentage are "new" viewers but I suspect that same night repeats are mainly new figures.

A fair way to measure soap figures is just to add in the first same night repeat for all the soaps, so ITV+1 figure for Emmerdale and Corrie and BBC3 figure for Eastenders, sounds fair to me.

Both these ratings are really bad. I know they were up against the FA Cup, but stuff shown opposite England World Cup matches usually hold up better.

Kicking off prime time with 1m and then 2m is poor. You've Been Framed does better than that.

For the soap official averages, I've normally just posted the first showing averages for the last few years. It makes it easier doing year-on-year comparisons. Also it's quite difficult getting all the BBC3/ITV2/ITV1+1/omnibus BBC1/ITV1 repeat ratings to collate such an aggregate average in the first place, and if I were to do it for this year's averages, I'd have to do it to the previous years' averages too for the y-o-y comparisons which would be really difficult to do.

I believe the BBC at least has conducted some research into this and figures show that a percentage in the high 90s are first look viewers. It was some internal BARB survey done a few years ago, RZT may have more details on this.

It's all a matter of logic though really as who really watches the same thing twice on the same night. If it's a big ep then maybe but remember the majority of a soap's audience are made up of casual fans in so much they'll follow the soap but won't really give a crap once the credits have rolled and it's finished. Those who watch episodes more than once will be in the minority.

As for the other poster claiming Corrie has had no big storylines. It's coming up with stunts of some form every week so I presume that was a joke. Only last week there was a big story with Liz's exit although as that flopped in the ratings I suppose it'll now conveniently be classed as a non- big storyline by embarrassed fans. It's not as if a character leaving after 20 years should have been a massive event or anything.

Monday's Coronation Street was only a few 100,000 behind Friday's 'massive' EastEnders, so that must be a strange definition of a flop?

Yeah, I read somewhere that about 95% of repeat viewers were 'new' viewers. That was from a BBC study which was carried out a few years ago.

Excellent point. Maybe the +1 arguments will die on that comment - somehow doubt it though.

And Liz's exit was very low key. If you don't believe it was then just look at Ashley's/Molly's/Claire's exits in Coronation Street.

Don't try to be clever Andy as you know it doesn't wash with me. Liz left on Thursday and that episode had mediocre ratings.

But since you're trying to compare Monday's Corrie ratings to Friday's EE ratings you would do well to remember that there's a big difference between the start of a week and the end of one - especially with EE which predominantly skews younger. So for EE to have over 10m on a Fri is excellent for it. If it was a big Corrie story on a Friday those ratings would just be good.

I wasnt having a go at you, I appreciate the effort put into collating the averages you post. But, the BBC3 figures are extremely important when looking at Eastenders averages and account for a fair amount of total viewers.

Is the Match of the Day 2 producer trying to boost the FA Cup Highlights? Only 20 minutes of the Premiership match when they have 50 minutes to play with and then a load of pointless talk before the Blackpool v Wigan match which took up the ad break on ITV1.

Something else to add is that, if a programme does attract the same viewer on a +1 channel or BBC Three, that's a credit to the show and it deserves the inflated ratings because it's obviously hooked people.

But as Sally quite rightly points out, with +1's I'd say over 95% must be new viewers.

Some people ask why EastEnders on BBC One and BBC Three isn't regularly combined like Corrie...

However, with something like a BBC Three EastEnders repeat, because BBC Three is a channel in its own right, there's a likelihood that people would just leave it on waiting for the next new programme, or because they traditionally watch the channel on weekdays, whereas that wouldn't make sense on a +1 channel really...

If someone's watching an hour behind (say, with ITV, watches Emmerdale at 8pm then keeps it on) then surely they could just leave the channel on waiting for the new programme? Bar live programming, is the point regarding 'keeping the channel on' any less valid for +1 channels against other channels?

Not if it's getting 4-5m viewers it won't.

Like I said, "it don't matter if it's shit if it's a hit".


The "no to +1 aggregation" argument isn't just about some viewers being counted twice - I have always maintained that this will be a tiny number - but the fact you are not comparing like with like if you include same night repeats for certain shows that benefit from repeat showings when comparing their ratings against shows that don't.

The argument I tend to use as well is that a +1 screening will contain the same adverts as the main screening, so therefore when the network (ITV, C4 or whoever) is selling ad space for the show they will also be selling the space for the +1 screening at the same time, so naturally the figures should be put together. I know the BBC doesn't have adverts but if you use the exact same schedule on an advertising channel, the 10pm BBC Three screening would not contain the same advertisements as the main screening so should be treated separately. HOWEVER, this does not mean that the BBC3 repeat (or ITV2 or E4 or whatever) should not be taken into account as it still represents part of a programme's total reach for the evening which should be accounted for, if not combined with the main rating.

Fair point, if the +1 audiences are added so should the 10pm figures for EastEnders.

Together I think EastEnders will regularly beat Coronation Street from now on.

Also as you pointed out the other day, older viewers are still set in their ways and stick to the main 5 channels which will effect the ratings for same day repeats.

I know if my mum misses Coronation Street, she will Sky+ it, she wouldn't dream of watching a repeat on ITV2. There have even been situations where she watches a taped repeat at the same time as the same episode is on ITV2 repeat or on the ITV1 omnibus.

I doubt she's ever tuned into ITV1+1, but having said, that I don't think I have more than once or twice.


Talking about same day repeats, did we ever find out how Friday's late night One Show did?

Good start for Britain's Got Talent. Lots of speculation whether its been hurt or helped by Cowell or the New Judges. It's frankly too difficult to say from one rating, so we'll just have to see where its at in a few weeks. I can't envisage anything too dramatic either up or down, to be honest. I suspect it'll track last year quite closely.

SIYC was way overhyped (or should that be "underhyped"?) on this thread, I think. The knock on effects of the stellar football ratings make it difficult to judge. It'll almost certainly fall next week, but I honestly won't be surprised to see it at a steady 4-5m, potentially beating SYTYCD.

Terrible night for BBC One all round. An absolute stinker. Early evening was a disaster zone - I din't expect much from Blue, but that one caught my attention. Only a one-off though, and aside from the diehards, Eurovision only really matters on the night itself. SYTYCD did extremely poorly again - frankly, its been sunk and no ill-fitting family sci-fi drama lead in is going to save it. They should have stuck it out from 6 next week and given Who the best shot at a big rating.

Just hypothetically speaking, if you were to include same day repeats like people suggested to get a reach figure, it would end up something like this:

EastEnders- BBC1: 9.74m, BBC3: ~0.9m = ~10.64m
Coronation St.- ITV1: 10.25m, ITV1+1: ~0.2m, ITV2: ~0.3m = ~10.75m

Basically, too close to call in terms of "same day reach" which one is ahead. The BBC1 omnibus/iPlayer gets about double what ITV1 omnibus/ITV Player gets so that would put EE ahead of Corrie in terms of "weekly reach", although that wouldn't account for viewers watching the various ITV2 omnibus showings. Overall it'd be close between the two soaps. I guess both alternate depending on how strong the storylines are for a particular week in terms of which one is ahead in terms of weekly reach.

Hm, but you are adding two repeats of the ITV soap in!

This is one of the reasons why aggregation is unfair. Why should Coro St get an inflated figure and a higher "daily reach" than EE just because ITV choose repeat Coro St twice?

Yeah, that's true. But that's how "reach" is calculated. That's exactly what the BBC do with their Live+7 ratings - adding up the ratings for all their showings per week. Of course this skews the figures, but that's how it's done. If people want to know the reach for the shows, that's how the broadcasters are working them out.

But even let's say, for example, we remove one of the Corrie repeat showing ratings, the two soaps would still be quite close to each other in terms of "same day" viewing - almost level in fact.

Wait until you see "Don't Scare The Hare". How on earth could a mediocre show like "101 Ways to Leave A GameShow" be axed for a show like "Don't Scare The Hare!" The title alone suggests it's going to be a huge flop!

So it only took us to page 5 for the Walford faithful to engage in the +1 argument once again. And you can be pretty sure that 120 odd pages and a dozen or so outbreaks later it'll still be of no importance.

Sorry, it was my fault regarding the +1 argument; I'd say it was naivety rather than trying to stir - I didn't realise it was still such a heated topic.