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Return of the gay references!
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CoalHillJanitor
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by Kapellmeister:
“I think it's all a bit much, tbh. The 'looking up Amy's skirt in the Tardis' thing was actually pretty grim.

Canton was obviously referring to America's anti-miscegenation laws. The only problem is that the law was overturned in 1967 by the Supreme Court. By 1969 blacks and whites were free to marry I guess (isn't it shocking that such a disgusting law was still in existence in America as late as 1967??). Maybe Moffat hadn't done his research.”

Was Canton from a southern state? It's unlikely there would have been miscegenation laws in the north.
Kapellmeister
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by CoalHillJanitor:
“Was Canton from a southern state? It's unlikely there would have been miscegenation laws in the north.”

Some did and some didn't:

According to Wiki:

Quote:
“Between 1913 and 1948, 30 out of the then 48 states enforced anti-miscegenation laws. Only Connecticut, New Hampshire, New York, New Jersey, Vermont, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Alaska, Hawaii, and the federal District of Columbia never enacted them.”

If DC didn't have them anyway then Canton could've married a black woman before 1967.
Corwin
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by Digital Sid:
“Was made legal in 1967 wasn't it?”

Are we told when Canton was kicked out of the FBI though? It might have been prior to 1967.
jdayeh13
24-04-2011
Haha just searched Canton Everett Delaware iii and there is already a number of blogs etc. on how they are sure he is gay from that single line
Verence
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by Kapellmeister:
“I think it's all a bit much, tbh. The 'looking up Amy's skirt in the Tardis' thing was actually pretty grim.

Canton was obviously referring to America's anti-miscegenation laws. The only problem is that the law was overturned in 1967 by the Supreme Court. By 1969 blacks and whites were free to marry I guess (isn't it shocking that such a disgusting law was still in existence in America as late as 1967??). Maybe Moffat hadn't done his research.”

Mixed marriage might have been legal but that doesn't necessarily mean it was acceptable to the majority of people at the time
Digital Sid
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by Corwin:
“Are we told when Canton was kicked out of the FBI though? It might have been prior to 1967.”

Good point, could be right.
jdayeh13
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by Digital Sid:
“Good point, could be right.”

I don't think so because River says "6 weeks after he left, he had a private meeting with the President of the United States"

Also the race issue seems most likely. Although It would be a bit weird to have that issue, and yet also show a black bodyguard for the president?
Verso07
24-04-2011
Get a grip people........

Same sex references are found throughout our literary past........

SO WHAT!

No agenda.

It happens - Deal with it
jdayeh13
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by Verso07:
“Get a grip people........

Same sex references are found throughout our literary past........

SO WHAT!

No agenda.

It happens - Deal with it”


...People are dealing with it. We are just discussing possibilities of what he meant. No one really said there was an agenda or anything, the OP only mentioned that if Canton is indeed gay, than if it was RTD's era than some may have rolled eyes etc.
Jenna Corinth
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by Glowbot:
“Maybe he liked a black woman, that was illegal too.”

No it wasn't. That was resolved by the Supreme Court in 1967. I took the marriage line immediately as a gay reference.
Califa
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by Pootmatoot:
“I'm not sure it's a same-sex marriage reference, because I think it's unlikely in 1969 he'd casually reference that to a stranger, and expect her to understand.”

Mhmm I'd imagine it was more likely simply just having relationships while working in the FBI is a no no (married to your job) or even him marrying a person of another ethnicity.

the gay reference of the presidents fancying the doctor was just a laugh to me. Not so much an agenda but a laugh, I mean the doctor fancied rose which is another species so he has to be at least pansexual
RacerWelsh
24-04-2011
Is his name in reference to the unused 3rd Doctor theme?
gmc93
24-04-2011
I assumed it was to do with sexuality, but who knows.
jdayeh13
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by gmc93:
“I assumed it was to do with sexuality, but who knows. ”

I think part of the reason many of us thought that was because it is a very topical issue at the moment. However although completely plausible that he got kicked out for being gay, it seems a bit weird he would use the word marriage. I can't really imagine anyone even thinking about the idea of same-sex marriage at the time?

Ofc my history isn't great so maybe there was a push for it as early as the late 60s/early 70s?
SinSeer
24-04-2011
The idea of Canton being kicked out of the FBI because he was gay and wanted a civil partnership is ludicrous. He would not have revealed to a bunch of complete strangers, (within minutes of meeting them) who were apparently on the US Government's payroll that he was gay and wanted to set up home with his male lover.
Aenaryn
24-04-2011
Why would he not? He's shown to have a disregard for conventions. I'm not saying he is talking about wanting to marry his male partner, but there's not much to say the fact he raised the issue of marriage in that period is indicative of it being something other than gay marriage.
Jenna Corinth
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by SinSeer:
“The idea of Canton being kicked out of the FBI because he was gay and wanted a civil partnership is ludicrous. He would not have revealed to a bunch of complete strangers, (within minutes of meeting them) who were apparently on the US Government's payroll that he was gay and wanted to set up home with his male lover.”

It isn't ludicrous and he didn't say civil partnership, he said marriage. Many people have taken the line as written to mean homosexuality, as I did.

It doesn't matter if it is an anachronism or not, the line was written now - in 2011 - when gay marriage isn't ludicrous. Doctor Who has always played fast and loose with this stuff and I saw this line as another example of that. There's really nothing else it could mean anyway. The word "crime" was specifically used. As in illegal. Interracial marriage was legal in 1969, so it had to mean gay marriage.
nattoyaki
24-04-2011
I'm absolutely staggered that anyone thinks the 'marriage' could be a gay reference.

I'm so amazed I won't even argue that side of things.

I'll just address the FBI point of view (as I wrote my thesis on the FBI at that precise time in history).

If an Agent's boss vetoed a marriage on any grounds (class, possible criminal connections of a spouse, even if they interviewed her and didn't like the colour of her clothes or hair, or even just didn't like her!), it would have been end of story for the marriage. It's extremely likely that had the agent left the FBI over the issue the marriage would have been made sure not to have taken place anyway, and perhaps especially.

People do know that 'it's a crime' doesn't need to be used literally, yes?
SinSeer
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by Jenna Corinth:
“It isn't ludicrous and he didn't say civil partnership, he said marriage. Many people have taken the line as written to mean homosexuality, as I did.

It doesn't matter if it is an anachronism or not, the line was written now - in 2011 - when gay marriage isn't ludicrous. Doctor Who has always played fast and loose with this stuff and I saw this line as another example of that. There's really nothing else it could mean anyway. The word "crime" was specifically used. As in illegal. Interracial marriage was legal in 1969, so it had to mean gay marriage.”

Still think it absolute nonsense that he would be so indiscreet as to blab about his alleged gay lifestyle to a bunch of strangers. For all he knows they might take offence at the very idea.If he was drunk or if he had known them for some time then fair enough, but NOT after they had only just met.
SinSeer
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by nattoyaki:
“I'm absolutely staggered that anyone thinks the 'marriage' could be a gay reference.

I'm so amazed I won't even argue that side of things.

I'll just address the FBI point of view (as I wrote my thesis on the FBI at that precise time in history).

If an Agent's boss vetoed a marriage on any grounds (class, possible criminal connections of a spouse, even if they interviewed her and didn't like the colour of her clothes or hair, or even just didn't like her!), it would have been end of story for the marriage. It's extremely likely that had the agent left the FBI over the issue the marriage would have been made sure not to have taken place anyway, and perhaps especially.

People do know that 'it's a crime' doesn't need to be used literally, yes?”

They really are clutching at straws IMO.
bodsworthnj
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by SinSeer:
“Still think it absolute nonsense that he would be so indiscreet as to blab about his alleged gay lifestyle to a bunch of strangers. For all he knows they might take offence at the very idea.If he was drunk or if he had known them for some time then fair enough, but NOT after they had only just met.”

To be fair, it's established fairly quickly that he is in awe of these people who have managed to walk into the oval office with a blue box and who are from the future.

I think I would probably trust them! Also as he's from the FBI and the doctor presents himself as an agent from Scotland Yard, he probably assumes that they would know that. After all, The doctor called him by his name before dellaware even told him.
nattoyaki
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by bodsworthnj:
“To be fair, it's established fairly quickly that he is in awe of these people who have managed to walk into the oval office with a blue box and who are from the future.

I think I would probably trust them! Also as he's from the FBI and the doctor presents himself as an agent from Scotland Yard, he probably assumes that they would know that. After all, The doctor called him by his name before dellaware even told him.”

Not sure what your point is regarding the 'supposedly' gay marriage angle.
bodsworthnj
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by nattoyaki:
“Not sure what your point is regarding the 'supposedly' gay marriage angle.”

I'm Just saying that Dellware would trust them enough to tell them that.
dgembadgemba
24-04-2011
Originally Posted by SinSeer:
“Still think it absolute nonsense that he would be so indiscreet as to blab about his alleged gay lifestyle to a bunch of strangers. For all he knows they might take offence at the very idea.If he was drunk or if he had known them for some time then fair enough, but NOT after they had only just met.”

many people at that time were not ashamed so had no problem telling strangers they were gay.

He obviously had no problem telling his employers even though he knew he would lose his job so why not tell strangers
johnnysaucepn
24-04-2011
The one thing we see clearly from Delaware's reaction to the Doctor in the Oval Office is that he respects the Doctor's attitude to authority, and it somewhat mirrors his own. They're not exactly a conventional or conservative bunch.
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