Don't get me wrong, they are excellent. But I get the feeling you'd have to be at a certain level of 'Whovianess' to fully appreciate the timey-wimey time travel paradox ideas Moffat puts across, but where would that leave a new viewer or say, a 6 year old who only really tunes in to see the 'cool monsters'? They're hardly going to speculate at how the Doctor managed to do this and that through time but got killed anyway, possibly by him from the past or from the future... Mind MELT! I mean, my mother likes Who, but throughout the episode she just had a confused look on her face. Compare this to, say, the Series 4 opener. Yes, many thought it was crap but it was an easy romp to ease in regular and new viewers alike. I'm afraid Moffat will put new Who-curious viewers off with these very complex scripts for a series opener, or God forbid, confuse the little 'uns.

I completely get what your saying but have to disagree, I think the new "complicated" (which sorry are so far not complicated just currently unexplained) episodes would attract viewers. The show has been going for 6 years so if you have never particularly liked it you probably wouldn't have liked it last year. However, some people may watch just to say look how stupid and childish this show is and switched on tonight and said "wow actually this is pretty interesting". The two parter (which also acts as a series opener) in my eyes is currently doing exactly what it is supposed to be doing meaning -
Part 1 - Set up story, ask questions.
Part 2 - End story, answer questions. Open things up for rest of series.
I think adults who want to get in to would want to be challenged in some way and Moffat knows that. This show is still family friendly, look on the Impossible Astronaut thread a couple of people said their kids understood mostly with a couple of questions. And kids looking for cool monsters will only get what they are looking for... cool monsters I don't really imagine they will understand what goes on in many episodes as long as this man beats the alien in some form they recognise they will be happy. Sometimes RTD made DT come out with a load scientific lines for his Doctor to say and that stuff went right over the kids heads. Moffat understands this and will probably focus on challenging teenagers and adults but he also knows as long as h shows The Doctor beating the monster the kids will be fine. This doesn't go for all kids by the way I'm sure some do get confused but IMO half of these episodes are not as confusing as some make out.

well my kids enjoyed it, all at different levels and they are 4, 6 and 7. LOL
The 4 yr old girl just loves amy, and the fact that she was up late
The 6yr old loves monsters and the dr
Now the 7yr old is dr who obssessed he has been reading up on the episodes and watched all the trailers, and trys to read over my shoulder when I am on here. He loved it, wasnt upset when dr died, but the dwa mag spoilt that by sending out next weeeks (out thur, he gets tue) so that it came yesterday lol. So he had read the review on it and made the silent mask.(although did think it be good to scare him by putting it on when checking him lol)
He also has enjoyed scaring his brother by doing his silent impression lol

I can also report none of them had nightmares lol. In fact they all said they hadnt even dreamed of the silents. I did lol

I never understand what's going on, with all the leaping to-and-fro in time, and with people moving back in their own timeline. I just let it wash over me.

I do feel it's a bit of a cheat though. There's a comment in DWM this month where one of the weriters seems to agree. Instead of solving a problem, the show now sends the Doctor back in time to hand himself the piece of equipment needed to switch the story off.

Which writer said that? I completely agree but didn't think anyone on staff would say it!

Its the Moffat equivalent of the Sonic Screwdriver being used to solve everything.

He's certainly full of ideas. I find his material a bit confusing at time but no-one can accuse him of not being imaginative.

For some people they probably are, yes.

RTD's era was more massive popcorn movie for me - fun, brash, romp type stories.

Moffat's are a bit more stylised and plot wise more intricate. He's more like an Inception style film.

Both have their merits and both won't appeal to the same audiences.

Moffat's Doctor is less emotionally attached to his assistants. The Doctor does care for Amy and Rory but in a more detached sort of way. RTD's Doctor had a bit more warmth towards his assistants. The Doctor really loved Rose. I can't imagine Moffat's Doctor ever loving Amy in the same way.

I can imagine RTD being quite a softie/romantic in real life whereas Moffat may have a more cynical view of life.

I do agree however I do prefer this, Smith's Doc just wants friends to take with him so they can enjoy the wonders much like Tennant/Tate but althoug he did care for Rose there "love" stuff took over Series 2 and some of the Series 4 finale.

Well for a start this was the 1st part of a two parter - thus there will be the build up which will leave you hanging on for the 2nd part.

Confusing Who stories are not new - i used to get confused with old Who episodes and stayed watching just to see what the outcome was.

One thing I have learnt with Dr Who is that you have to be patient, suspend belief, stop questioning everything and assuming anything.

I have to agree, to an extent, with the OP. If all the complicated issues were simply over one or two consecutive episodes, or even one series, then it wouldn't be a problem. But having to attempt to remember intricate details from other complicated episodes harking back to various episodes in David T's time is making it extremely difficult for me to keep up!

I like Doctor Who being complicated, but I'm concerned that it doesn't actually help the show in keeping the mainstream audience that RTD helped cultivate.

You mean like Who is River Song?

The thing with Moffat's plots is that they have more than one layer. Theres the general storytelling layer which can be followed quite easily - Dead doctor is replaced by younger doctor and nobody can tell him.

But you can look deeper and see all the intricate things that he has built and laid into the plot

And then you look deeper still and find more mysteries. I don't think kid will have a problem following the basic storyline of this episode and thats really all that matters. They'll know River Song as a person from the Doctor's past but can let the other mysterious stuff about her wash over them

I think there's nothing wrong with with a bit more "Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey" in Doctor Who, especially after five years with more than its fair share of of "Soapy Woapy Millsy Boony".

Well I can't speak for everyone, but I watched off and on during RTD's era. However, since series 5 I have been watching every single week and really looking forward to each episode - I personally think, although more complicated, Moffat's style encourages regular viewing to catch the ongoing arcs. So if anything I think he would be drawing in viewers.

If not for that time slot -.-

I think that they are confusing Storylines until they are explained. We will just have to wait til next week.

And to be fair, I love shows that don't worry too much about the viewer. I find that shows that explain everything can be quite condesending and insult my intelligence. Just do your thing and I'll try and keep up!

I have been watching Doctor Who since the very beginning in 1963, and storylines in those days were simple and easy to follow.

I am not keen on storylines which are baffling to say the least, especially with big plot holes.

Keep it simple folksy wolksy.

It's not that complicated at all. I really don't understand people's gripes with it. :S

And what exactly are these plot holes?

I think if you look at it from a child's perspective, as in, without all the "What if's" and "Consequences"... It's quite simple to follow.

Perhaps it's our adult nature to make things more complicated than they really are that's causing some confusion.


A friend's 7 year old found it less than confusing...
Yet my friend, herself (28), thought there were some weird parts.


Perhaps it is a kids' show in the sense that kids are the ones that DON'T find it complicated
(Please don't zap me... I don't actually think it's a kids' show )

I thought Moffatt went out of his way to explain what was going on, to the point that I found it slightly annoying. Specific things that happened in the episode already broadcast (so they're spoilers only if you didn't see it; no reference to anything unscreened):

I don't think his scripts are complicated I just think he plays on the whole jumping around different times a bit too often. It's okay doing it every so often but it seems like every episode these days they are doing it in some way or another and quite often it just feels like filler.

See I don't get this criticism either. Look through the whole of series 5 and they play around with time travel once. In the finale. Thats it.

Eleventh Hour
Beast Below
VOTD
Angels two parter
Amy's Choice
Hungry Earth/Cold Blood
Vincent
Lodger
Pandorica

None of them have alternate doctors, time travel or paradoxes (that I can recalle anyhow, I could be wrong but don't think I am)

I think people worry far too much about complicated storylines.

The Back To The Future trilogy is one of my favourite film series. Fell in love with it as a child.

Did I understand any of it? Hell, no! But I could follow the basic storyline and saw it for the fun it was.

The great thing for me was understanding the story the older I got.