Had someone ask me this but not sure of the answer. Their HDR takes approx. 1 minute for the programme and sound to appear behind the EPG when they are browsing channels/programmes; this is when they go into the EPG from that specific channel.

Is this quite normal on the HDR, or could it indicate a problem with signal (Eurobird) or the receiver itself?

(resets and formats carried out).

It's normal if you press guide because it takes tuner 1 to download a whole new epg from Eurobird 1. When the data is downloaded tuner 1 is released to provide the background video/audio.

If you press schedule and then red the already buffered epg is displayed, as this needs no tuner you get an instant epg and don't lose the background video

Thanks Graham, I thought that was the case but couldn't find exactly what I needed when doing a search.

I've often wondered why the updating of the EPG doesn't use the second tuner (if it isn't already in use), thus allowing the programme to continue in the background.

Does anyone know if there is a reason behind this?

Inept programming by Humax.

It seems pretty clear that there were two levels of competence involved when the Foxsat was programmed.

The team responsible for all the difficult stuff seem to have made an excellent job of things - particularly if you compare their work to some other PVR manufacturers.

The team responsible for the UI and 'gluing' the really technical stuff together look more like a bunch of students on day release.

I think it can't use the second tuner as the data is in XML formal and needs the mpeg decoder to change the raw data into text.

It only has the one mpeg decoder and thus cannot do it as a background task.

The same issue with the recording thumbnails images.

Automan.

?! Why would XML (text) need to go through an MPEG (video and audio) decoder?!

Cheers,
David.

It may not be stored on the box in XML format but it still is in a digital format coming from the satellite.

The box only has one mpeg decoder stage which normally handles the TV picture and obtains the trickle EPG feed (or is used to playback a recording from a .ts file stored on the hard drive).

Thus no live TV while it retrieves the EPG.

Automan.

I think you're talking about is demuxing, not decoding.

The box can demux two muxes at once - it does it every time it records two programmes: it demuxes audio, video, subtitles, AD, and accurate record data from two separate transponders simultaneously.

Cheers,
David.

It can in fact demux three at once (and potentially four). To do three, two of the three must share a transponder. That's why you can record two from the same transponder and view a third with time shifting capability

Yes, I am a little off target...

But certain stages of the video / audio processing it only has one of.

I think it is part of this stage/stages of the processing that it needs to extract the full EPG guide stream into a usable format.

If not, it is indeed inept programming on the part of Humax.

How well does the Grundig / Goodmans boxes do it?

I know the Samsung does a very poor job of it but without the wait so I guess it never looks at the full epg stream channel.

Automan.

There are several situations that need to be programmed for - No of cables, Tuner 2 in use or going to be used in next x mins, the real easy solution would be not to display the channel at all - this may have brought less comment.

So Humax could have done it if they had tried a little harder?

Automan.

I would actually have preferred this option.

And if you happen to be recording something and press the schedule button then the schedule appears instantly over the current picture since tuner 1 is already in use!

Where I think they got the programming wrong is deciding that the whole schedule needs to be re-downloaded every time you press the button. Just update the schedule once or twice a day for goodness sake!

Where they got the programming wrong was insisting on using tuner 1 for the EPG info gathering rather than trying to use a free tuner if possible.

The schedule is constantly updated albeit relatively slowly by data transmitted along with the broadcasts which is why schedule/red is the normal preferred way of accessing the epg. You only need to use guide if starting with a blank epg after a system reset.

if only .... the updating of the schedule in the STB is not easy in any case - but with a system where the bit rate is limited but the data will come round some time for all channels (UK DTT) or only this channels (near) info is transmitted with the programme and it plus the rest is on a high speed carousel that is on a different transponder (ALL DSAT systems) is more than an art-form.

I hope to get some answers on this from the RTS London meeting Demystify...EPGs ( Registration required) on 25 May see http://www.rts.org.uk/demystify-epg

If you reset a hdr and then display the buffered epg immediately using schedule/red you can actually watch the epg populate without losing any background video or audio. This is the reason that Sky approval is required for Freesat channel launches. They have to ensure the two epg systems can co-exist.

?!Separate PIDs. Never the twain shall meet - so don't understand your comment.

Cheers,
David.

So when you watch BBC-HD on a Sky box it's using seperate pids is it ?.

Similary when you watch CH4-HD it's a seperate pid is it ?

http://en.kingofsat.net/find.php?que...+HD&Submit=Zap

Same transmission, same transponder only the epg is different. Both are carried on the same transmission. Freesat is not a transmitter only a epg service,

Not the video and audio, the EPG data. Hence I don't understand your comment "This is the reason that Sky approval is required for Freesat channel launches. They have to ensure the two epg systems can co-exist." - why?!

Cheers,
David.

http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?s...427&irt=612829

Graham, do you have any idea how long to trickle in a whole EPG takes? - I saw a comment on another box that the EPG appeared to take hours to populate. If this is so everthing is potentially out of date every time the box comes out of standby.

Not a clue but isn't a whole new epg downloaded overnight as part of the housekeeping ?.

Only time I ever use guide is after a reset, never had a problem with epg data being out of date as a result of using the buffered epg. If you want to test, do a reset and access the guide using schedule/red to get an idea.