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The State of the Street - constructive criticism from loyal fans


View Poll Results: How would you rate Coronation Street on average at the moment?
On a high, consistently good. (5/excellent) 10 8.47%
Good most of the time, but suffering a little. No crisis. (4/good) 38 32.20%
Decidedly average. Not good, but not bad. Not a crisis yet, but could be soon. (3/average) 34 28.81%
Below par. The show has become lazy and started losing its spark. In decline. (2/bad) 26 22.03%
Abysmal. The show is now back in the pits and in complete crisis. (1/terrible) 10 8.47%
Voters: 118. You can't vote on this poll right now - are you signed in?

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Old 09-05-2011, 21:07
James J
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With ratings riding high after the excellent tram crash and the superb preceding months, the show has, in my opinion, gone rapidly downhill since then. I got a number of friends into Corrie from about September last year and most of them have stopped watching - viewing figures are pretty substandard, and last week the show was beaten every day by EastEnders.

I'm extremely disappointed, and say this is a huge Corrie fan. I still watch every episode, but with each that passes I get more and more irate.

I really hope they are aware the show's quality has dipped, because it's dire at the moment I think, I'm so fed up with all the storylines, and no focus. It's not as bad as under Crowther, but it's getting close now with the endless tedium of the McDonalds, Xin etc... and the remainder of storylines being filler/conversation based.

I preferred it when there was lots going on with a dominant thread each week, it kept the pacing going and things fresh. Even the cinematography and direction has gone back to being stale, I've rewatched a few episodes from late 2010 and they looked visibly crisper and more rich in colour and style. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I'm incredibly observant with production right down to the writer/director credits and the opening of episodes - and I've even noticed that now, they just fade up at random, clumsily and sometimes over several fast cut shots which look dodgy, where before they would seem intentionally placed in the first scenes of an episode which were far better at slowly setting the scene - I sound crazy now!

The episode synopses for the doubles show that there is no dominant thread. For example tonight's 7.30pm episode featured Amy's illness as the "dominant" thread while 8.30pm was about Audrey, Claudia and Marc.

They're just being lazy now. The writers and directors ARE capable of better. I'm not calling for tram crashes every week, just good character led drama mixed with heart warming comedy. At the moment it's just people doing things and I feel no connection to any of the plots. I caught the end of Emmerdale today before Corrie and it looked more appealing, more full of emotion, heart and life than Corrie has had for several months now.


--
Sorry had to vent.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:17
Citadel
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You're spot on, James. If anything there was too much going on earlier this year, now there is not enough.

The McDonalds/Platts war should work well as lots of characters are involved, but it's just a borefest - why? And a lot of the storylines are rather provincial at the moment: Claudia-Mark-Audrey, Becky-Steve-Tracy, Grame-Tina-Xin. They don't really involve or affect anyone other than the characters involved.

This is the corner that Emmerdale had backed itself into earlier this year, and only now seems to be coming out of. It's rather troubling...
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:21
ghettoBLASTER!
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Not to bang my own drum but some of us said this would happen. The problem is Phil Collinson is too much of an issue led sensationist.

Corrie has never been this sort of show.

Things are going to get worse too. Without drawing everyone back into the gay character argument, six gay characters is way too much and is going to create problems before you know it.

I'm honestly not really sure what Phil is trying to turn the show into but its no longer Coronation St.

I hope it gets a kicking at the soap awards because I think it has changed far too much over the past 12 months in order to try and win awards and aim itself towards a younger demographic. Its backfiring. imho.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:25
wallo mr slug
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Not to bang my own drum but some of us said this would happen. The problem is Phil Collinson is too much of an issue led sensationist.

Corrie has never been this sort of show.

Things are going to get worse too. Without drawing everyone back into the gay character argument, six gay characters is way too much and is going to create problems before you know it.

I'm honestly not really sure what Phil is trying to turn the show into but its no longer Coronation St.

I hope it gets a kicking at the soap awards because I think it has changed far too much over the past 12 months in order to try and win awards and aim itself towards a younger demographic. Its backfiring. imho.
Sorry but your argument loses any quality when you harp on yet again about the gay issue. having what you deem as too many gay characters does not affect the quality of the show.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:25
Citadel
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Without drawing everyone back into the gay character argument, six gay characters is way too much and is going to create problems before you know it.
I agree. And the Mark cross-dressing storyline is in that BGLT ballpark as well. My beef is that because PC is himself gay, I feel he is trying to turn Corrie into an impression of the Corrie HE would want to see, rather than the Corrie that the majority of other people would want to see, and I don't think that's the same show.

As Brookside before it has shown, if you rely too much on sensationalism and not enough on substance, the grim reaper is only round the corner...
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:27
wallo mr slug
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I agree. And the Mark cross-dressing storyline is in that BGLT ballpark as well. My beef is that because PC is himself gay, I feel he is trying to turn Corrie into an impression of the Corrie HE would want to see, rather than the Corrie that the majority of other people would want to see, and I don't think that's the same show.

As Brookside before it has shown, if you rely too much on sensationalism and not enough on substance, the grim reaper is only round the corner...
Coronation Street is hardly comparable to Brookside. I don't think anyone believes that the axe is around the corner

However, I do agree that it is far too sensationalist at the moment. i do take issue with gay characters being classed as sensationalism however
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:27
James J
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Not to bang my own drum but some of us said this would happen. The problem is Phil Collinson is too much of an issue led sensationist.

Corrie has never been this sort of show.

Things are going to get worse too. Without drawing everyone back into the gay character argument, six gay characters is way too much and is going to create problems before you know it.

I'm honestly not really sure what Phil is trying to turn the show into but its no longer Coronation St.

I hope it gets a kicking at the soap awards because I think it has changed far too much over the past 12 months in order to try and win awards and aim itself towards a younger demographic. Its backfiring. imho.
I disagree with the comment about homosexual characters but agree - to an extent - that it's aiming at a younger audience. I think, though, it's also FAILED to win a younger demographic in the process of trying to.

Even the "sensationalist" plots such as Jim's raid were wimpy and wet. Liz McDonalds exit was so disappointing given that Bill Tarmey's was so magically beautiful.

2011 looked like it would be Corrie's year after such a strong 2010, but it's just tripe at the moment. Its only saving grace is that it's still quite funny.

But there's no direction right now. Collinson has dropped the ball, and I just don't understand how a man of such calibre, capable of directing 4 mostly-acclaimed seasons of Doctor Who and capable of such a strong early reign has managed to lose it all so quickly.

Surely he can't be happy with the show in its current state? It's lazy and in a void.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:27
ghettoBLASTER!
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Sorry but your argument loses any quality when you harp on yet again about the gay issue. having what you deem as too many gay characters does not affect the quality of the show.
In my view it does reflect the quality of the show because all it is is a BIG statement on ''Hey look how many gay characters we have''. Everything is being created purely for hype and headlines rather than actual quality and direction of the show.

Phil even said as much. This is what the problem is. For some reason Corrie is now trying to do what EE does and preach to its viewers on the issue of the day. This is so far removed from what Corrie has always been.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:28
::Adam::
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Too much Becky is my problem
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:28
eduble
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Too much Becky is my problem
Yep. Her and Steve are getting annoying
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:29
James J
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Too much Becky is my problem
The problem is deeper than that (in my opinion).
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:29
Citadel
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Coronation Street is hardly comparable to Brookside. I don't think anyone believes that the axe is around the corner

However, I do agree that it is far too sensationalist at the moment. i do take issue with gay characters being classed as sensationalism however
That isn't what I was implying actually, though I can see why you would think that. I meant the show relied on sensationalism in general, not on the gay characters to create sensationalism.

The comparison between Corrie and Brookie was about the sensationalism and how shows struggles if the rely on it too much. My comment on the grim reaper however, was a joke...
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:30
Addisonian
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I agree. And the Mark cross-dressing storyline is in that BGLT ballpark as well. My beef is that because PC is himself gay, I feel he is trying to turn Corrie into an impression of the Corrie HE would want to see, rather than the Corrie that the majority of other people would want to see, and I don't think that's the same show.
Precisely. Well said. You will no doubt have many people spouting the usual "it doesn't matter how many gay characters there are yadda yadda yadda" but you have hit the nail on the head here, imo.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:34
James J
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The fact that people are even discussing the number of gay characters goes to show how little ELSE there is to talk about.

Episodes used to be great for catching casual viewers (late 2010 to early 2011) but now any casual viewers would give up and switch away. The stories may be more sensationalist, but they're also boring and largely uninteresting.

Any discussions about gay characters can continue in the dedicated thread - this one's about Corrie in general right now.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:34
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I don't mean to be rude OP but if you watch every single episode, I don't see how you can complain - not saying you shouldn't because it's your right. However, I can easily miss any of the soaps because I know, particularly for their recycled story lines, that you don't miss much. There's gay/lesbian/murder/incest/racist plots in each and it's easy to catch up. I must be in the minority in loving the Tina/Graham storyline because I can't wait for silicone enhanced Michelle Keegan to be shown that men don't always go for that obvious look. That's what keeps me interested. Tonight was great but, a bit far fetched that Tina keeps on walking in on suspect acts and Graham is just getting so disrespectful towards her that she moans but "I still luffs ya babe.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:34
JoshuaRy
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Obviously theres a lot of Becky because shes going soon. It has been a little repetitive and I'm starting to dislike her but I think thats the idea.

I think six gay characters is a lot but then again its not like they're shoved down our throats... we just know they're there. Also, its not like theres 'too many gay people' in one street at all.

The ratings thing is just ridiculous, its one week, I think overall from January to say March, Corrie was beating EE. Not EVERY week, but certainly the majority. Its swings and roundabouts.

I think once Becky leaves the show will be on course again. I like the Mary/Norris scenes, I like the Syliva in the cafe scenes. I dont mind Graeme/Xin/Tina - again a plot for Graeme to leave (out of the way soon). So it will be back on course in a few weeks I'm sure. You people write like its been in this state for years, and will just get worse. I dont think thats the case. Any soap has dips every so often, Corrie was inevitabley going to have one after the tram storyline fallout.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:40
2011 is good
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Things are going to get worse too. Without drawing everyone back into the gay character argument, six gay characters is way too much and is going to create problems before you know it.
Totally this. 6 is far too much.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:43
2011 is good
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What happened to the brilliant start it had to this year? They're focusing on the wrong characters. From December to March, these sort of threads were targeted at EastEnders. EastEnders is not at all doing brilliantly, but Coronation Street had such a strong start to the year, with the wedding averaging 11.9 million viewers. I'm not sure if all that was a boost from the tram crash, but the quality has just gone downhill. It started when they brought Xin in, and I thought it was only a slight lull, but it has, sadly, descended into far worse. I don't have a clue what Phil Collinson is trying to do, but he's totally gone off the rails.
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Old 09-05-2011, 21:56
Addisonian
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Without drawing everyone back into the gay character argument, six gay characters is way too much and is going to create problems before you know it.

I'm honestly not really sure what Phil is trying to turn the show into but its no longer Coronation St.
.
In my view it does reflect the quality of the show because all it is is a BIG statement on ''Hey look how many gay characters we have''. Everything is being created purely for hype and headlines rather than actual quality and direction of the show.

Phil even said as much.
Totally this. 6 is far too much.
At the risk of being branded "homophobic" by all the gay members on here who are delighted at the sudden influx of gay characters, I completely agree with above comments.
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Old 09-05-2011, 22:14
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Just what I posted earlier- I aswell am dissapointed in Corrie at the momment

Yes there should be a bit more focus on the older residents.

Jack Duckworths 74th birthday- just before he died, highlighted the community spirit with the older ones.

We had Audrey, Ken, Rita, Emily, Betty, Noris, Deidre all socialising with eachother.

I think that was the last time we saw that.

It seems Corrie has gone to pot recently, with no clear focus on anything and has just been jumping from one issue to the next since the tram crash and has lost a certain feel that Corrie has always had.


Also one of the best scenes of the year was the twitter conversation with Rosie and Betty.

Brilliant cast interaction like that seems to be in decline again with it back to how things were in 2009 with focus on the same characters all the time, what is the point of having a cast of 60 plus if its the same faces constantly
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Old 09-05-2011, 22:16
James J
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Obviously theres a lot of Becky because shes going soon. It has been a little repetitive and I'm starting to dislike her but I think thats the idea.

I think six gay characters is a lot but then again its not like they're shoved down our throats... we just know they're there. Also, its not like theres 'too many gay people' in one street at all.

The ratings thing is just ridiculous, its one week, I think overall from January to say March, Corrie was beating EE. Not EVERY week, but certainly the majority. Its swings and roundabouts.

I think once Becky leaves the show will be on course again. I like the Mary/Norris scenes, I like the Syliva in the cafe scenes. I dont mind Graeme/Xin/Tina - again a plot for Graeme to leave (out of the way soon). So it will be back on course in a few weeks I'm sure. You people write like its been in this state for years, and will just get worse. I dont think thats the case. Any soap has dips every so often, Corrie was inevitabley going to have one after the tram storyline fallout.
Interesting post.

I would argue that when a soap falls into a rut, it's very hard to get out. Corrie was superb from 2002-2004 then was - for the most part - decidedly average, lacking in drama and character development and annoying from 2005-2010.

If you would like a breakdown of the decade (and yes I have watched that long):

- Jane McNaught (early 2000s): far too sensationalist and seeking blockbuster plots at the expense of character development. Created a crisis.

- Kieran Roberts (2002-2004) with Carolyn Roberts as executive: absolutely phenomenal, possibly Corrie's best era, it didn't aim at any demographic but just did its thing. Characters were growing week by week, in subtle, nuanced ways. Drama was done fantastically, with the slow-burning Richard Hillman plot hooking viewers. The episode in which he confessed to Gail (a two hander, bar a short scene with David and Sarah) was one of the best single episodes of soap in the last 20 years. It wasn't just the Richard Hillman storyline, everything was brilliant elsewhere in my opinion. Gold.

- Tony Wood (2004-2006): With Tony Wood it's hard to know whether he can be credited for his strong opening reign, because of the crossover period with Kieran Roberts who had restored Corrie to an incredibly strong state. We had the superb plot with Tracy, Roy, Karen and Steve. God, to think of the days of Steve and Karen McDonald! Sarah/Todd etc kicked off big time and sparked the classic Gail/Eileen fight on the cobbles among many other fantastically acted story arcs that included the coming out, and Sarah losing her baby. Todd's story was critically acclaimed, winning a South Bank Award among many others. Maya's rampage was well done.

By the end of his reign he was running out of ideas big time and has made some mistakes - Cilla Battersby was pretty dire... as was Diggory Compton. At this point, the comedy with which Corrie was so heavily associated was growing further and further slapstick. Overall, shaky. He handled storylines inherited from Roberts' reign and pulled the brilliant Todd story out of the bag, but he made a whole lot of mistakes, causing one of the worst years in the show's history - 2006.

Steve Frost (2006-2008): Really ballsed things up. He inherited the show in a bad state and made it worse. The Baldwin nonsense with Frankie/Jamy, Violet/Sean etc was tedium. Mike Baldwin's death was badly handled. The post-natal depression storyline was panned. The Mortons and Connors arrived in the show. Tracy murdered Charlie. I mean come on! Frost brought in Jonathan Harvey as a writer, who seems to write slightly above average episodes (on average). Michelle Connor started to gripe. Alex/Ryan Connor stuff was so annoying. He created Becky McDonald and Tina McIntyre. Some people liked his reign and believed he had worked wonders for the show.

Kim Crowther (2008-mid 2010): Kim Crowther picked up the show in a bit of a mess. Steve Frost had lost the plot and really was time for fresh blood. She wasted off the Mortons, whom many people were warming to, the Masons (remember them?). Pam came into her own. Julie Carp arrived. Jed Stone's return was pretty good. I thought Carla/Liam/Tony/Maria was her strongest plot. Carla Connor became a triumph. But Vera's exit was poor, very poor. Tony's exit/siege week was overhyped and didn't quite hit the spot. The Platts were put to the forefront (Gail being pushed down the stairs, psycho David etc) and it worked, kind of. But overall, plots were slow - and not in a good way. Long winded and going nowhere. Joe's plot was a bit mental, and Gail's trial/Tracy was good on paper, and not too bad on screen, but as a viewer I just knew Kieran Roberts would have done it better. So much better. Frustratingly better. Toward the end of her reign, as the ridiculous Molvin story began, I was fearful for the 50th.

Phil Collinson (2010-present): Started off incredibly well. He axed Molly, the Peacocks, Natasha (mistake) and Trevor. Mostly good decisions - Molly's exit was a highlight of the year. He turned around previously dull, infuriatingly sh!t storylines such as the Molvin one and made them exciting and gripping. Natasha's story and exit was riveting. The Lewis/Audrey plot was great and involved all the oldies really well. Jack Duckworth's exit was a touch of class. The Leanne/Nick/Peter stuff simmered fantastically for months alongside the Molvin stuff, and among all this we had Roy and Hayley's wedding (beautiful), Sophie/Sian and so much more. Then, in December, everything came to a head. The week before the tram crash was, at that point, the best week on Corrie since at least 2004, then the anniversary week itself was a triumph.

Visually incredible, well acted all round and thoroughly engaging - despite the big stunt, it was all about the characters, the community, the human spirit. The live episode was impeccable. Molly's exit scene is an absolute Corrie classic. Ashley's death was heartbreaking. Everything about it was incredible. Since 2011 has begun, the show's gone downhill somewhat. Only the Nick/Leanne reveal has been done all that well, and for the last two months or so the quality has waned. The structure of episode blocks has changed away from weekly blocks with one main plot, a subplot and lots of simmering plots waiting their turn. As said, the McDonald guff is infuriating and Becky's character is now ruined. Liz's exit sucked. The Graeme/Xin stuff has gone on for weeks now. Only the comedy/character interaction now stands between the show now and its lulls under Kim Crowther/Steve Frost.

I'm very tired so apologies if my memory is a bit wrong but that's roughly how it went to my memory.

I'm just sad because the end of 2010 Corrie was returning to a 2002/3 level and it hadn't been there since. Since, it's gone back to being rushed. Maybe the strain of 5 episodes a week makes it impossible to be consistently good. Who knows.

I just hope things restabilise soon. Nothing from even the newest spoilers suggests to me they will.
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Old 09-05-2011, 22:26
davey_wavey
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Not to bang my own drum but some of us said this would happen. The problem is Phil Collinson is too much of an issue led sensationist.

Corrie has never been this sort of show.

Things are going to get worse too. Without drawing everyone back into the gay character argument, six gay characters is way too much and is going to create problems before you know it.

I'm honestly not really sure what Phil is trying to turn the show into but its no longer Coronation St.

I hope it gets a kicking at the soap awards because I think it has changed far too much over the past 12 months in order to try and win awards and aim itself towards a younger demographic. Its backfiring. imho.
I completely disagree. I don't think it's going to get worse. In fact I don't even think the show is that bad! and I don't think Phil Collinson is an 'issue led sensationalist'. There is plenty of character led drama on the Street.
Spoiler
and I still don't get the argument of there being too many gay characters. 6 gay characters out of say 50 on the show? That's hardly a lot... as long as they're written well and they are good characters, then who cares? I think Collinson and his team are going to write these characters well and demonstrate that there is more to them than just their sexuality. If they're all two dimensional and everything revolves around 'gay issues' then I'd say you have a point, but I think Coronation Street are going to write these gay characters well. They are going to be characters that happen to be gay and lesbian.

The comedy and writing is still strong in my opinion and I still care about the majority of the characters. The John Stape story looks set to continue its high standard. It's still Coronation Street - he hasn't changed the show dramatically at all. The natural humour is still present alongside the drama and the community feel of the Street is very much present, with lots of characters of all different ages interacting with one another and getting their fair share of screen time, so for you to say 'it's no longer Coronation Street' is a statement I'd strongly have to disagree with.

I am getting tired of Becky and Xin/Graeme/Tina though :yawn: so I agree that the show isn't at its best but I think when
Spoiler
the show will turn a corner.
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Old 09-05-2011, 22:40
James J
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davey_wavey you make good points, but I do think the show is lacking a sense of movement, and character development is being sacrificed for storylines. The structure is completely off again.
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Old 09-05-2011, 22:45
Glomper
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I agree. And the Mark cross-dressing storyline is in that BGLT ballpark as well. My beef is that because PC is himself gay, I feel he is trying to turn Corrie into an impression of the Corrie HE would want to see, rather than the Corrie that the majority of other people would want to see, and I don't think that's the same show.
Spot on, couldn't agree more.
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Old 09-05-2011, 22:55
Fudd
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I posted this in another thread but I'll post it here too:

The first thing Collinson should've done is split Becky and Steve up; they're great characters but drag each other down and become unbearable (especially Becky) in the process. Once he missed that opportunity and instead went down the stealing money route he was always going to struggle.

Tracey's return was badly plotted and subsequently written. She's provided nothing that was needed to the show IMO.

Xin should've been introduced slowly - the whole affair has been dull and stupid without capturing the imagination simply because Xin is so dull and we don't know anything about her other than the immigration storyline.

It would've been better for the Frank and Maria storyline to remain ambigious in regards to the 'rape' allegation (as in, never aired that scene) as the resulting fumble the two of them had didn't reveal anything other than confusion, which I don't think was the intention.

But deep down the issue is the show is currently plot led rather than character led. Turn that around, and think about how characters would truely act and they'd suddenly find themselves with a stronger programme on their hands.
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