Popstar to Opera Star 2011 (Merged)

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  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,402
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    Pet Monkey wrote: »
    The only Russian aria that's really familiar to me is Lensky's aria, 'Kuda, Kuda'.

    Yeletsky's aria from Queen of Spades and Gremin's aria from Eugene Onegin are also worth a listen

    The Yeletsky (and yes, it is available by Hvorostovsky) is also an excellent opportunity for people who don't know him already, to get to know the incredible voice of Pavel Lisitsian, one of Dmitiri's idols

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipf1ufoE7wg

    He had immaculate technique and unbelievable breath control. The only singers I know who can sing the first four phrases of Germont's aria from La Traviata in one breath are Lisitisian and Hvorostovsky

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE66Q81n3Cg&feature=related

    And speaking of immaculate technique, this is Mark Reizen singing Gremin's aria aged 90

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0hVOpCGAD4

    There are also some good arias in Sadko, by Rimsky Korsakov. The Song of the Indian Guest (tenor) the Song of the Venetian Guest (Baritone) and my personal fave, the Song of the Viking Guest (bass) as sung by Martti Talvela (born to it!) but it isn't on Youtube. Nicolai Ghiaurov is though

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv2DEq-Hhqg
  • Pet MonkeyPet Monkey Posts: 11,923
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    DFI wrote: »
    Yeletsky's aria from Queen of Spades and Gremin's aria from Eugene Onegin are also worth a listen

    The Yeletsky (and yes, it is available by Hvorostovsky) is also an excellent opportunity for people who don't know him already, to get to know the incredible voice of Pavel Lisitsian, one of Dmitiri's idols

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipf1ufoE7wg

    He had immaculate technique and unbelievable breath control. The only singers I know who can sing the first four phrases of Germont's aria from La Traviata in one breath are Lisitisian and Hvorostovsky

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LE66Q81n3Cg&feature=related

    And speaking of immaculate technique, this is Mark Reizen singing Gremin's aria aged 90

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0hVOpCGAD4

    There are also some good arias in Sadko, by Rimsky Korsakov. The Song of the Indian Guest (tenor) the Song of the Venetian Guest (Baritone) and my personal fave, the Song of the Viking Guest (bass) as sung by Martti Talvela (born to it!) but it isn't on Youtube. Nicolai Ghiaurov is though

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv2DEq-Hhqg

    Fantastic, the Bulgarian bass! Thank you for this. I've no idea what he's singing but he tells a story with energy and great musicality. Ah ha! He's reminding me of Scarpia, except he's even more lowdown. That's what I've been trying to remember. Dirty cheating dangerous Scarpia making dirty cheating dangerous plans while the church choir sings.

    To all browsers and moochers on this forum, I'd definitely recommend following DFI's last link above. :):):)
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    Pet Monkey wrote: »
    Gneiss, good afternoon!:D
    Good afternoon, TBH I ignore 99% of the comments on YouTube...

    But whilst you were on that page you may have spotted this duet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIm95N7L00&feature=related the libretto incidentally was written by his brother, Tchaikovsky's that is not Rolando :D

    Not so long ago Anna released a whole album of Russian arias, in her imaginatively named Russian album http://www.annanetrebko.com/recordings/cd/4776384.php
  • Pet MonkeyPet Monkey Posts: 11,923
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    Gneiss wrote: »
    Good afternoon, TBH I ignore 99% of the comments on YouTube...

    But whilst you were on that page you may have spotted this duet http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MIm95N7L00&feature=related the libretto incidentally was written by his brother, Tchaikovsky's that is not Rolando :D

    Not so long ago Anna released a whole album of Russian arias, imaginatively named Russian album http://www.annanetrebko.com/recordings/cd/4776384.php

    It's harder to ignore when they're fascistic homophobic swine... What on earth is wrong with them? I used to think that every singer I liked was a bad choice because I'd go to youtube and then have to read exactly what was wrong with her or him. Thank God for the innate arrogance that meant I eventually dismissed these commentators as deaf or daft. But now I've spent longer mooching over there, it's clear that every single singer is disgusting to someone in the ranks of the youtubers.

    The contrast makes this thread even more of an oasis. We're a lucky lot! :)

    Your first link is true heaven for thee and me, for different reasons :D
  • Pet MonkeyPet Monkey Posts: 11,923
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    washboard wrote: »
    I love this thread!

    It's like the best music class ever created, with fabulous, interesting lessons, covering the most diverse aspects of music, how we 'feel' it, and how it affects us.

    Add in the introduction to great music talents (via the medium of youtube), and all I can say is:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acYDNlMYAaI

    (Thank you to all of the contributors :))

    What washboard says. Exactly. Tis lovely here. :)
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,402
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    Pet Monkey wrote: »
    Fantastic, the Bulgarian bass! Thank you for this. I've no idea what he's singing but he tells a story with energy and great musicality.

    Each of the songs is sung by the respective guest in response to questions about what their own country is like. The Vikiing guest is describing how the waves roar and the white foam crashes on the rocks, and how the Vikings were born, and will die, on the sea.
  • Pet MonkeyPet Monkey Posts: 11,923
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    DFI wrote: »
    Each of the songs is sung by the respective guest in response to questions about what their own country is like. The Vikiing guest is describing how the waves roar and the white foam crashes on the rocks, and how the Vikings were born, and will die, on the sea.

    Thanks for this. I'm pleased he's not hatching Scarpia-type plots after all.
    Interesting, aren't some of the early settlers in Russia Viking?

    What would you call those things the orchestra does technically, those repeated upward ThrrrrummmMs, does anyone know? That's the Tosca-ish bit. Must be the waves crashing in the Viking's song.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,402
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    Pet Monkey wrote: »
    Fantastic, the Bulgarian bass! Thank you for this

    Interesting (or not, you can decide :cool:) bit of trivia about Nicolai Ghiaurov. There's a mountain named after him - Ghiaurov Peak - in Antarctica (the South Shetland Islands to be precise). No idea why.

    He was married to, and frequently sang with, Mirella Freni, who also sang a lot with Pavarotti, particulary as Mimi and Rodolfo in dozens of performances of La Boheme. She was from Modena (and lived there with Ghiaurov until he died), as was Pavarotti. They were childhood friends and their respective mothers worked together.
  • AnniedAnnied Posts: 2,261
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    DFI wrote: »
    The Vikiing guest is describing how the waves roar and the white foam crashes on the rocks, and how the Vikings were born, and will die, on the sea.

    Afternoon all. (I've been "kitten cuddling" for a small local charity all afternoon, so am just catching up with everything.)

    Wow, you can really hear those waves crashing onto the rocks.
  • AnniedAnnied Posts: 2,261
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    DFI wrote: »
    I'm wondering if this might not fit the bill....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKDY5vJCoDU

    If it doesn't, it's still a damn good reason to listen to it

    Here's another. It's from a zarzuela (Spanish operatta), called "Canco d'amor I de guerra". I can't get rid of the 20 sec gap towards the end, but considering it's a tape copied from a record copied onto the computer I suppose it's amazing that it's possible to hear anything at all!

    Look out for the bit that sounds something like ....ium tri-er-um-phe-re. (It's repeated immediately after the gap.) The actual sounds of the words (as opposed to their meaning) work perfectly with the music. Hats off to the librettist.

    www.catsup.co.uk/music/pirineu.mp3
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    Pet Monkey wrote: »
    It's harder to ignore when they're fascistic homophobic swine... What on earth is wrong with them? I used to think that every singer I liked was a bad choice because I'd go to youtube and then have to read exactly what was wrong with her or him. Thank God for the innate arrogance that meant I eventually dismissed these commentators as deaf or daft. But now I've spent longer mooching over there, it's clear that every single singer is disgusting to someone in the ranks of the youtubers.

    The contrast makes this thread even more of an oasis. We're a lucky lot! :)

    Your first link is true heaven for thee and me, for different reasons :D
    In part it's a few cretinous trolls with multiple accounts, you'll love this, purporting to be fans of either Maria Callas or Anna Netrebko and bombarding the respective opposing videos with abuse...

    Yes, really I used the term cretinous in it's truest sense! If any of them were ever to actually attend an opera they'd probably take popcorn :rolleyes:

    Fortunately some people police their channels and don't let these idiots spoil it... It's a shame that some chose to disable comments entirely but I can understand why they do.

    YouTube rant over I'm gland you liked the link...
  • Jem19876Jem19876 Posts: 2,104
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    Joe is 5'4 so would be perfect, stature-wise, with Alfie Boe playing Valjean.
    However, I believe a chap called Craig Mather is playing Marius when the cast changes at the end of the month
    Apparently Joe did audition for Marius in Les Miserables, as this time they were looking for a short cast to match Alfie Boe (who is much shorter than normal Valjeans), and got to the final three. The guy they did cast is 5'8", so much shorter than the part normally dictates, but also substantially taller than Joe.

    Joe's height will limit the roles available to him in musical theatre, but being limited by your physicality is normal for everyone else in the industry, so it isn't that unusual.

    Doing a show like Popstar to Operastar won't make him any taller, but it will give him some credibility in a genre that can have a chip on its shoulders about popstars with no proper classical training. Having said that, I know a lot of Les Miserables fans who are annoyed about bringing a proper opera singer like Alfie Boe in to sing Valjean instead of a proper musical theatre actor.:p
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    Jem19876 wrote: »
    Having said that, I know a lot of Les Miserables fans who are annoyed about bringing a proper opera singer like Alfie Boe in to sing Valjean instead of a proper musical theatre actor.:p
    I don't see why...

    ... besides it's not that unusual, for example I've seen Lesley Garrett in a couple of West End shows.
  • Jem19876Jem19876 Posts: 2,104
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    Gneiss wrote: »
    I don't see why...

    ... besides it's not that unusual, for example I've seen Lesley Garrett in a couple of West End shows.
    I think part of it is that people feel Alfie doesn't have the acting chops, as well as personal preference. It's common for the actors playing Valjean to have an operatic style about them, but an actual opera singer is a step too far in that direction. I've got to say, I prefer the likes of John Owen-Jones to what I've heard of Alfie singing the part, but I've also heard that he has been working on adapting his style to suit the scenes, so it is probably unfair to compare him to an actor who has been playing the part off and on for years.

    But now that you mention Lesley Garrett, I've seen some terrible things said of her too, but you'll never get 100% good reviews of any actor. As has already been discussed, everyone has different preferences, and some people accept that as part of what makes us different, and some people think everyone else is wrong!

    I'm open to the casting of people from different backgrounds in musicals, which includes both operatic and pop backgrounds, so long as the part suits and they can handle the acting and the discipline of eight shows a week. One of the great things about a musical or a play is that after each cast change, you get a whole new interpretation. Sometimes you'll like it better, but inevitably, sometimes you are disappointed.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 104
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    There's rather a charming interview with Rolando here from a UK tv show:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LI4NbAjMXk

    He explains some of the rationale he uses when offering his responses as a judge and seems to be a warm and genuinely decent human.

    He picks out Joe and Claire for particular comment... and then Andy. The first two I understand. The third, not. What does anyone think it is that Villazon is seeing in him?

    Loved the performance of No puede ser on Sunday, by the way. A beast of a rendition.
  • Jem19876Jem19876 Posts: 2,104
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    To me, Joe and Claire are the obvious front runners, but what I enjoy about a show like this is seeing them learning, and make the change from one style to another. Andy is an older singer, and I'd presume to have a lot more bad habits to unlearn. It may be that he's shown promise in the rehearsal room that we've not seen.

    I think it's premature to say who deserves to win after just one show and apart from anything else, it makes sense to give the impression that the competition is open. I'd like to think that with the right song, Andy could impress us all.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 104
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    No argument here Jem... and I hope you're right because, while in the early video clips, I thought Andy seemed a bit arrogant ('best voice in the world'!) I now believe he was being ironic. He actually comes across as a decent, modest bloke. I find myself warming to him as a human. That said, vocally he didn't convince me and so I'm curious to know what it could be that's making him stand out for Villazon (assuming of course that he's got a better ear than I have). Most life-forms have. :)
  • Pet MonkeyPet Monkey Posts: 11,923
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    windsock wrote: »
    There's rather a charming interview with Rolando here from a UK tv show:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LI4NbAjMXk

    He explains some of the rationale he uses when offering his responses as a judge and seems to be a warm and genuinely decent human.

    He picks out Joe and Claire for particular comment... and then Andy. The first two I understand. The third, not. What does anyone think it is that Villazon is seeing in him?

    Loved the performance of No puede ser on Sunday, by the way. A beast of a rendition.

    Thanks for posting it, windsock. This is terrible. It happened last year though I managed somehow to recover a little over the intervening eleven months. Now I'm getting it all over again. I blame Rolando. I didn't want to love him but he made me. Every little interview, every daft aside, every shake of the curls... (Did he cut his hair back a little from last year, btw?) More to the point, every time he sings... :o

    I adored the Rolando performance too -- 'beast' is a good way to describe it. I have some resistance to those big show-off endings where a singer holds a note for a long eternity, but it was thrilling in the context of this show to have that much raw stuff. Shook up the whole set and it was good to hear the genuine applause -- it felt like a fire got lit up :D:D

    I must post the translation of the lyrics for the aria, if I can remember to type them from the CD booklet. Not that it's necessary to know exactly what it's about but it explains the emotion... It is apparently a song of anxious but still-felt and still-hopeful love. Is she playing around with another man is what the man in the song is wondering. And he's so committed to her that it will break him if she isn't true. Promise to post the words tomorrow. :cool:

    Have to confess that I'm not terribly interested in the competition side of the programme... What is the prize? The real prize seems to be to stop in the process as long as possible and to continue exploring their voices and their own creativity. That side of it is fascinating.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 595
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    Jem19876 wrote: »
    Apparently Joe did audition for Marius in Les Miserables, as this time they were looking for a short cast to match Alfie Boe (who is much shorter than normal Valjeans), and got to the final three. The guy they did cast is 5'8", so much shorter than the part normally dictates, but also substantially taller than Joe.

    Joe's height will limit the roles available to him in musical theatre, but being limited by your physicality is normal for everyone else in the industry, so it isn't that unusual.

    Doing a show like Popstar to Operastar won't make him any taller, but it will give him some credibility in a genre that can have a chip on its shoulders about popstars with no proper classical training. Having said that, I know a lot of Les Miserables fans who are annoyed about bringing a proper opera singer like Alfie Boe in to sing Valjean instead of a proper musical theatre actor.:p

    That's very interesting. We did hear rumours circulating that he was auditioning for Les Mis. Nice to know he got so far with little prior experience.

    I'll be interested to see Alfie as Valjean. Will be going to see them once the new cast have bedded in a bit.

    @windsock I can't see what Rolando is hearing in Andy Bell either. Unless it is the very early opera, Monteverdi and the like, which would be quite difficult to "sell" on PtoO.
  • GneissGneiss Posts: 14,555
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    DFI wrote: »
    Won't spoil it for those who want to see the highlights programme on Tuesday night at 7.30 on BBC4, but just as an aside, for anyone who hasn't yet seen or heard tonight's first concert from the Cardiff Singer of the World, there's a clear winner in the heat - glorious sound - and I would expect that the same singer will go a long way in the competition.
    Well having now seen it, much as I enjoyed the New Zealand soprano I'm hoping you are referring to the Russian mezzo soprano...
    Jem19876 wrote: »
    But now that you mention Lesley Garrett, I've seen some terrible things said of her too, but you'll never get 100% good reviews of any actor. As has already been discussed, everyone has different preferences, and some people accept that as part of what makes us different, and some people think everyone else is wrong!
    I don't think her acting is her strongest point, but I thought some of the reviews were a tad unfair to say the least.
    Jem19876 wrote: »
    To me, Joe and Claire are the obvious front runners
    I'm still standing by my earlier comments and think that Cheryl could be the dark horse in this...
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,402
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    Gneiss wrote: »
    Well having now seen it, much as I enjoyed the New Zealand soprano I'm hoping you are referring to the Russian mezzo soprano...

    I thought she was the standout.

    Didn't agree with the winner of tonight's concert though.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,402
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    Jem19876 wrote: »
    Having said that, I know a lot of Les Miserables fans who are annoyed about bringing a proper opera singer like Alfie Boe in to sing Valjean instead of a proper musical theatre actor.:p

    Err...opera is musical theatre :D. Which is not to say that all musical theatre is opera, of course.

    Alfie Boe has a voice that actually straddles the two genres. He's sung a few operatic roles (not desperately well, IMO) but his performance of Bring Him Home from Les Mis is by far the best I've heard. I do, though, find it odd to bring him in to sing it in the 25th anniversary gala when you have the likes of Colm Wilkinson on stage at the time.

    As far as I know, he's never actually sung a complete performance of the role, but I believe that may be about to change in the next couple of weeks, as he takes over the role in the West End for a few months?
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 552
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    DFI wrote: »
    I thought she was the standout.

    Didn't agree with the winner of tonight's concert though.

    I really liked the New Zealand soprano too, and I'm not that keen on sopranos. But I'm sure the mezzo was the right winner.

    Tonight, yes, I was surprised that singer won.
  • [Deleted User][Deleted User] Posts: 2,402
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    Interested to know what people think of this, particularly those still finding their way into the opera repertoire and learning about new singers and languages

    Anyone who's ever seen the film Gladiator or the TV series The West Wing, will have heard Lisa Gerrard. She's not an opera singer, but she does have a very well supported contralto voice, good technique, and, I think, a glorious tone particularly to the middle of her voice

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xpkRj99FH0

    The thing is, if you're listening for a language here, this isn't one. Although she has sung in a variety of languages, including Medieval French, Sanskrit, Latin and others, this is just her using her voice as an instrument in a language of her own making ("idioglossia" to anyone with a linguistic background)

    Does it strike a chord, or do people prefer a more structured. language based approach, even if they can't actually speak or understand the language being sung? In which case, why does the language itself matter? Or is it just pretentious BS? If you thought she was singing a language that you didn't happen to be familiar with, would it make a difference in how you hear the music?

    Next time someone says "why would you want to go to an opera house and listen to 2 hours of someone singing in a language you don't understand?" play them that piece and ask them if they like it. Most people seem to. Then ask them what the difference is between liking music being sung in a language you don't understand and liking music being sung in a language that doesn't even exist.
  • washboardwashboard Posts: 2,079
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    DFI wrote: »
    Interested to know what people think of this, particularly those still finding their way into the opera repertoire and learning about new singers and languages

    Anyone who's ever seen the film Gladiator or the TV series The West Wing, will have heard Lisa Gerrard. She's not an opera singer, but she does have a very well supported contralto voice, good technique, and, I think, a glorious tone particularly to the middle of her voice

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xpkRj99FH0

    The thing is, if you're listening for a language here, this isn't one. Although she has sung in a variety of languages, including Medieval French, Sanskrit, Latin and others, this is just her using her voice as an instrument in a language of her own making ("idioglossia" to anyone with a linguistic background)

    Does it strike a chord, or do people prefer a more structured. language based approach, even if they can't actually speak or understand the language being sung? In which case, why does the language itself matter? Or is it just pretentious BS? If you thought she was singing a language that you didn't happen to be familiar with, would it make a difference in how you hear the music?

    For me, it's the music/musicality/feel which strikes a chord.

    Even though I speak a little Italian, and a bit more French, I can't fully follow the lyrics of the arias which have appeared on the show (and on this thread!). I'm still moved by them.

    In fact, I've found that - in some cases - understanding the actual lyrics doesn't match up to the beauty and soaring splendour of "beautiful music wot I don't understand the words of :o".

    O mio babbino caro being a prime example (for me)

    I really regret having looked up the lyrics last night :(.

    However, it did help me appreciate - even more - the discussion about "Questa maledetta porta si blocca" in Terry Pratchett's 'Maskerade' ...;)

    In sum, and in all seriousness, for me it's all about the voice and the music - whatever musical genre it happens to be. If the lyrics also happen to 'speak' to me, then that's just an added bonus.

    P.S. Thank you for - yet another - link to a beautiful piece of music :)
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