[mlt11]

BT annual results announced today:

- 575,000 BT Vision customers at 31 March 2011

- 30,000 net additions in the last quarter.

See link, page 8:

http://www.btplc.com/News/ResultsPDF/q411release.pdf

[Pure Genius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlt11

BT annual results announced today:

- 575,000 BT Vision customers at 31 March 2011

- 30,000 net additions in the last quarter.

See link, page 8:

http://www.btplc.com/News/ResultsPDF/q411release.pdf

laughable really, but not much of a shock...

Are the additions confirmed as 'package subscribers' i.e. revenue drivers in the results or just people who have the box under the TV.?

lest we forget, BT's original target, was 2 to 3 million subscribers by end of 2010..

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/...-vision-target


great results elsewhere for BT, well done to them. Mind you when you can charge the thick end of £15 for line rental then you should be making a ton of money.

[MP34L1fe]

But with the infinity roll out picking up pace, and maybe an integration with Youview things can easily pick up, especially if through Youview (like the rest of the BTV service) won't touch any FUP's, the numbers are disappointing but the Majority of people who have BTV are more than happy with it, Sadly with the dominance of Murdochs world it will be very unlikely if they do get near 2 million even after 10 years, Sky pulls the strings of alot of Providers which would damage fair competition (not that the gov really cares)

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP34L1fe

But with the infinity roll out picking up pace,

2015 we may get fibre if we are lucky, and by that time it will be out of date, not fibre I doubt, but the speed we would get

Quote:

and maybe an integration with Youview things can easily pick up, especially if through Youview (like the rest of the BTV service) won't touch any FUP's,

I thought BT got rid of their FUP? They still got traffic management.

Bt may allow their own stuff to go thought from you view, but how happy will they be if sky also uses You view for their Sky player and Bt also have to allow that though?

I still don't think that you view will come to much to be honest

Quote:

the numbers are disappointing but the Majority of people who have BTV are more than happy with it, Sadly with the dominance of Murdochs world it will be very unlikely if they do get near 2 million even after 10 years, Sky pulls the strings of alot of Providers which would damage fair competition (not that the gov really cares)

Sky got the money, they made one hell of a loss for years, it took many years for Sky to make a profit.

The numbers are pathetic, I thought that BT vision would certainly be up in the million mark by now considering the amount of people that have Bt broadband.

If Bt or any other company have done what sky have done and dominated the market with T.V, would you still say the same thing or is it because it is a Murdoch empire that have offered a service that people want?

I am sure if another company offered channels more money than Sky to appear on their platform then they would get the content, the problem is no company have and I doubt they will.

People still got a choice, they can have BTVision, but the problem is they also got to have Bt broadband, they can have Sky, no broadband needed, they can have Cable if they are in a cable area. they did have Top up TV, but that seems to have gone down hill


If they don't want to pay then there is still Freeview and Freesat.

Someone in the government must care, otherwise you would not be able to get Sky ports on BTV


Not worth complaining, what will be will be

[Tassium]

Video on Demand type services are just not in demand...

BBC iPlayer, although widely spoken off by some in the media, is hardly used relative to broadcast TV.


Most people want to share their viewing experience it seems.

[MP34L1fe]

VOD tech is still in its infancy compared to the likes of Sky Analogue/Digital/HD/3D etc etc and Yes Sky did make a loss for a few years and they do partly deserve their dominance, Do I hate the power that they yield against content providers, damn right I do! the Murdoch empire is getting bigger and bigger and where will it end it would end up something out of a James Bond film (megolomaniac yadda yadda)lol, regarding YouView alot of ISP's have a FUP the ones without Traffic Shape pretty heavily to balance it out, if there was a combined BTV/Youview package that would not touch an FUP it would certainly attract a few customers as a few users would reach their ISP's FUP very quickly using it, I think times are changing VOD will be the future, just depends how long it will take to get there,

[SimonBlackham]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tassium

Video on Demand type services are just not in demand...

BBC iPlayer, although widely spoken off by some in the media, is hardly used relative to broadcast TV.


Most people want to share their viewing experience it seems.

Do you have iPlayer? - I find we use it quite a lot though not as much as linear TV. We tend to record a lot but mostly just in case we miss it - and thus iPlayer serves the same purpose on the BBC.

We use iPlayer regularly for 'Click'.

PS we also have BTvision and use its VOD for the odd film.

[Pure Genius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP34L1fe

But with the infinity roll out picking up pace, and maybe an integration with Youview things can easily pick up, especially if through Youview (like the rest of the BTV service) won't touch any FUP's, the numbers are disappointing but the Majority of people who have BTV are more than happy with it, Sadly with the dominance of Murdochs world it will be very unlikely if they do get near 2 million even after 10 years, Sky pulls the strings of alot of Providers which would damage fair competition (not that the gov really cares)

Infinity means nothing to most people, especially at the price.possibly a big thing for businesses uploading stuff but for the rest? Not so much.

I get 16MB consistent from Sky and I already have FTC in my street, have had for ages, can actually see the cabinet from my house..... NO ONE in the street has taken BT up on their no activation fee deal.

16MB - £18.50 Sky
40MB (maybe) - £42 BT

(both inc. line rental)

why would you?...clinically insane to do so... My summertime Sky bill in total is a fiver cheaper than what BT want for line and broadband!!!...and thats without the deals!

Do you think that in one of the BT planning meetings pre-BTV anyone thought that they'd be in Mid 2011 at 1/6th of their original target?

..not long now?

..surely..?

I can't see BTV integrating with Youview but I can see Youview replacing it.

Whats the upside to BT carrying on BTV? It clearly doesn't convert to broadband users. They must be hoping that Sky don't roll out to too many more exchanges as that will be a net loss.

On the content side..all BT need to do is invest the money, pay the rights, the going price as dictated by the market and they can have more.

Why don't they...?

[MP34L1fe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pure Genius

Infinity means nothing to most people, especially at the price.possibly a big thing for businesses uploading stuff but for the rest? Not so much.

I get 16MB consistent from Sky and I already have FTC in my street, have had for ages, can actually see the cabinet from my house..... NO ONE in the street has taken BT up on their no activation fee deal.

16MB - £18.50 Sky
40MB (maybe) - £42 BT

(both inc. line rental)

why would you?...clinically insane to do so... My summertime Sky bill in total is a fiver cheaper than what BT want for line and broadband!!!...and thats without the deals!

Do you think that in one of the BT planning meetings pre-BTV anyone thought that they'd be in Mid 2011 at 1/6th of their original target?

..not long now?

..surely..?

I can't see BTV integrating with Youview but I can see Youview replacing it.

Whats the upside to BT carrying on BTV? It clearly doesn't convert to broadband users. They must be hoping that Sky don't roll out to too many more exchanges as that will be a net loss.

On the content side..all BT need to do is invest the money, pay the rights, the going price as dictated by the market and they can have more.

Why don't they...?

regarding infinity I know quite a few people who have taken it as they preferred the speed compared to normal adsl, with the speeds you are quoting you must be near an exchange, sadly the majority of people are not and they can only get between 4-6 meg, infinity is the closest most people will get for the foreseeable future for Virgin Cable type speeds, and regarding the going proce for rights etc. Sky purposely pay over the odds so they get binding deals which forces out competition and creates a monopoly, which not only stifles competition it puts prices up so People have to pay more, I have nothing against Sky there system is top notch but to stifle competition purposely in an open market is wrong and the gov needs to put a stop to it.

[swills]

Until BT up the standard BB speed, then BTV will not be an option for many, some even though they may want it will have the request declined, likewise Sky Anytime+ similar to BTV but restricted access to the favoured few

[stuntmaster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pure Genius

Infinity means nothing to most people, especially at the price.possibly a big thing for businesses uploading stuff but for the rest? Not so much.

I get 16MB consistent from Sky and I already have FTC in my street, have had for ages, can actually see the cabinet from my house..... NO ONE in the street has taken BT up on their no activation fee deal.

16MB - £18.50 Sky
40MB (maybe) - £42 BT

(both inc. line rental)

why would you?...clinically insane to do so... My summertime Sky bill in total is a fiver cheaper than what BT want for line and broadband!!!...and thats without the deals!

Do you think that in one of the BT planning meetings pre-BTV anyone thought that they'd be in Mid 2011 at 1/6th of their original target?

..not long now?

..surely..?

I can't see BTV integrating with Youview but I can see Youview replacing it.

Whats the upside to BT carrying on BTV? It clearly doesn't convert to broadband users. They must be hoping that Sky don't roll out to too many more exchanges as that will be a net loss.

On the content side..all BT need to do is invest the money, pay the rights, the going price as dictated by the market and they can have more.

Why don't they...?

because some people want fast broadband? sky ADSL2+ isn't Fibre Infinity! so you can't compare it!

comparing infinity to virgin media yes acceptable.

like saying hey this fiesta is cheaper than my ferrari... sure it is, it's a slower car!

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP34L1fe

VOD tech is still in its infancy compared to the likes of Sky Analogue/Digital/HD/3D etc etc and Yes Sky did make a loss for a few years and they do partly deserve their dominance, Do I hate the power that they yield against content providers, damn right I do! the Murdoch empire is getting bigger and bigger and where will it end it would end up something out of a James Bond film (megolomaniac yadda yadda)lol, regarding YouView alot of ISP's have a FUP the ones without Traffic Shape pretty heavily to balance it out, if there was a combined BTV/Youview package that would not touch an FUP it would certainly attract a few customers as a few users would reach their ISP's FUP very quickly using it, I think times are changing VOD will be the future, just depends how long it will take to get there,

Don't get me wrong I am not a fan of Murdoch, but what can you do? If I wanted some extra T.V, I would not give Sky a miss because it is partly owned by Murdoch and his cronies.

i am lucky I suppose that my broadband service don't have any FUP, which is why I want to stay where I am, but I am looking at saving money. That is why I am looking at Sky broadband,

I agree that VOD is the future, but I think it will be many years, I certainly don't think You View will be it, because people are not ready for VOD yet and I also think You view will come out too late.

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pure Genius

Infinity means nothing to most people, especially at the price.possibly a big thing for businesses uploading stuff but for the rest? Not so much.

I get 16MB consistent from Sky and I already have FTC in my street, have had for ages, can actually see the cabinet from my house..... NO ONE in the street has taken BT up on their no activation fee deal.

16MB - £18.50 Sky
40MB (maybe) - £42 BT

(both inc. line rental)

why would you?...clinically insane to do so... My summertime Sky bill in total is a fiver cheaper than what BT want for line and broadband!!!...and thats without the deals!

This is the problem, like in Cardiff, people are not switching to BT fibre there, because they have Virgin. If BT have put Fibre around here they may have a chance of people using it since most people around here gets 5megabits max.

i get 4 if I am lucky, but I still don't think I would switch to fibre, too expensive and too many restrictions and that is the same with other providers as well.

Quote:

Do you think that in one of the BT planning meetings pre-BTV anyone thought that they'd be in Mid 2011 at 1/6th of their original target?

..not long now?

..surely..?

I can't see BTV integrating with Youview but I can see Youview replacing it.

BT could have BTV as a pay service on You View, so use the you view box instead of their own box. what would them good is if they also allowed non BT broadband users to access the service.

The problem is You View is dead before it started. We have now switched to digital and I got myself a HD Freeview box, so why on earth would I go out and buy another one next year?

I know I am but one person, but the central area is pretty large and once the rest of it is fully digital, more people may go out and get a HD Freeview box, again why do people think that they would once again pay £160 or more for another box?

Quote:

Whats the upside to BT carrying on BTV? It clearly doesn't convert to broadband users. They must be hoping that Sky don't roll out to too many more exchanges as that will be a net loss.

I thought it may have been the other way, BT have a fair few broadband users and I thought more of them would have gone for BTV.

Now and again I do a check up my road on wireless routers and around this time last year, almost every single router was BT home hub, now a lot of them are Sky, with about 2 Talk Talk and that is just up this road.

Quote:

On the content side..all BT need to do is invest the money, pay the rights, the going price as dictated by the market and they can have more.

Why don't they...?

That is why I did not go for BTV, the content is not there, other wise I may have gone for it. Saying that I am glad I did not, got a far better broadband service now than I had with BT.

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntmaster

because some people want fast broadband? sky ADSL2+ isn't Fibre Infinity! so you can't compare it!

comparing infinity to virgin media yes acceptable.

like saying hey this fiesta is cheaper than my ferrari... sure it is, it's a slower car!

Depends how close you are to the exchange. A mate of mine lives pretty close tot he exchange and uses the Cable and Wireless network, he gets 16megabits and said even if Fibre did come to Hereford he di not see any reason to change,

Now where I live is a different thing, we get about 4-5 around here and the speed may be a reason for people to change. i am happy with my 4megabits, sure faster would be nice, but I am not going to pay extra to get it.

One day I may move closer to the exchange, but I can't see it myself.

[MostynDS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

Now and again I do a check up my road on wireless routers...

Have you any concrete statistics about what's on peoples washing lines too?

[stewM]

One day I may move closer to the exchange, but I can't see it myself.[/quote]

Would it not work out cheaper to pay a bit more for your faster broadband than to move house closer to the exchange?

[wwwebber]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MostynDS

Have you any concrete statistics about what's on peoples washing lines too?

Lol - good one !

[Pure Genius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP34L1fe

regarding infinity I know quite a few people who have taken it as they preferred the speed compared to normal adsl, with the speeds you are quoting you must be near an exchange, sadly the majority of people are not and they can only get between 4-6 meg, infinity is the closest most people will get for the foreseeable future for Virgin Cable type speeds, and regarding the going proce for rights etc. Sky purposely pay over the odds so they get binding deals which forces out competition and creates a monopoly, which not only stifles competition it puts prices up so People have to pay more, I have nothing against Sky there system is top notch but to stifle competition purposely in an open market is wrong and the gov needs to put a stop to it.

according to Google Maps I am 1.0 mil walking and 0.9 miles approx as the crow flies from my exchange.

my speed is here..

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1302284247.png

but I am 10 m+ from the router connecting wirelessly and streaming a movie from Skyplayer. Pretty good for £7.50 per month, unlimited, not shaped.

maybe Sky are just better at this..?

Sky don't pay over the odds for their content, they pay an amount they feel they can recoup...business is business.

It IS a free market, pay your money take your chance, consumers choice.

and... as much as I like and applaud this current govt. I don't want them to interfere in the process.

[Pure Genius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stuntmaster

because some people want fast broadband? sky ADSL2+ isn't Fibre Infinity! so you can't compare it!

comparing infinity to virgin media yes acceptable.

like saying hey this fiesta is cheaper than my ferrari... sure it is, it's a slower car!

..and whats your point?

BT non fibre costs the same amount.

No one has said Sky BB is fibre or cable or anything, it is what it is.

I find it very strange that someone who moans about prices and what Sky charge is seemingly advocating paying 4 times the current cost for 16MB connection to switch to fibre.

in real terms whats the benefit?

In 'value' terms whats added by going to fibre over and above what happens now?

I can already download a Sky VOD, stream another, use the Mac and iPad with no slowdowns or stutters.

its a nonsense argument

[MP34L1fe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pure Genius

according to Google Maps I am 1.0 mil walking and 0.9 miles approx as the crow flies from my exchange.

my speed is here..

http://www.speedtest.net/result/1302284247.png

but I am 10 m+ from the router connecting wirelessly and streaming a movie from Skyplayer. Pretty good for £7.50 per month, unlimited, not shaped.

maybe Sky are just better at this..?

Sky don't pay over the odds for their content, they pay an amount they feel they can recoup...business is business.

It IS a free market, pay your money take your chance, consumers choice.

and... as much as I like and applaud this current govt. I don't want them to interfere in the process.

Business may be Business but when competiton is stifled it makes a monopoly and Sky certainly do their utmost to stifle competition, Glee Season 3 is the perfect example (why anyone would watch that trash is beyond me, HOWEVER paying 12 Million for a series of anything is ridiculous now more people lose out, and they wonder why piracy is rife! Murdoch is turning into something out of a James bond film, he wants control of everything News/Media/Sport and this (and the previous Gov) bend over backwards supporting him when they should be concentrating on home grown business. As stated previously I had been a Sky customer for years and their service can be top notch, but their price for the avg family stretches budgets too far

regarding their broadband, its always been good value and I haven't heard hardly any bad things about them, however how cheap do you think their fttc product will be when they bring it out, it won't be much different to BT and the avg user on adsl gets about 4 meg. Virgin proves that people will pay extra for speed and in non Virgin areas BT (and a few others) are the only ones at present offering anywhere near Virgin Cable speeds

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MostynDS

Have you any concrete statistics about what's on peoples washing lines too?

Not interested in what people have on their washing lines. Not really bothered about what ISp people, but just curious. I normally have my phone wi-fi switch on and now and again as I walking into work I will have a peak to see how many more people have gone wireless.

The reason I have gone for a wired connections to my main computer is because of all the wireless routers around here.

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by stewM

One day I may move closer to the exchange, but I can't see it myself.

Would it not work out cheaper to pay a bit more for your faster broadband than to move house closer to the exchange?[/quote]

I take it you know how ADSL work and that the further you are away from the exchange the lower the sync speed?

Unless fibre is put int his street I will not get a better speed. I am luckier than some in this street, my next door neighbour only gets just over 2megabits. ,


I got the fastest speed I can get where I live unless Sky can make it faster, but I don't think they can.

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP34L1fe

Business may be Business but when competiton is stifled it makes a monopoly and Sky certainly do their utmost to stifle competition, Glee Season 3 is the perfect example (why anyone would watch that trash is beyond me, HOWEVER paying 12 Million for a series of anything is ridiculous now more people lose out, and they wonder why piracy is rife! Murdoch is turning into something out of a James bond film, he wants control of everything News/Media/Sport and this (and the previous Gov) bend over backwards supporting him when they should be concentrating on home grown business. As stated previously I had been a Sky customer for years and their service can be top notch, but their price for the avg family stretches budgets too far

I wonder what your views would be if BT stifled competition? Oh I forgot they did with their broadband and phone. Now they got to open up, but they did not used to and would try all sort of tricks to stop competition,


They still do to a certain extent, with their never ending contracts, but they seemed to have stopped doing that, but now they are going for super long contracts where even Talk Talk have gone back to 12 months.


You can't fight it, no matter how much you hate Sky. I never seen Glee, but read about it and it don't seem to be my cup of tea, but then it is not in my age range. I may fail on Sky, it may not.

Quote:

regarding their broadband, its always been good value and I haven't heard hardly any bad things about them, however how cheap do you think their fttc product will be when they bring it out, it won't be much different to BT and the avg user on adsl gets about 4 meg. Virgin proves that people will pay extra for speed and in non Virgin areas BT (and a few others) are the only ones at present offering anywhere near Virgin Cable speeds

So far I have not seen any fibre product at a price I would pay that offers what I want, not that I can get fibre, when the big guns start getting into the act, Sky and Talk rubbish Talk, the prices may change, but I still can't see fibre being good value.

People will pay for speed, but it depends on what speed they get in the first place. But then some people will pay for it because it is faster and they think they want it and yet they still just do emails, surf the net and go on facebook.

[MP34L1fe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by noise747

I wonder what your views would be if BT stifled competition? Oh I forgot they did with their broadband and phone. Now they got to open up, but they did not used to and would try all sort of tricks to stop competition,


They still do to a certain extent, with their never ending contracts, but they seemed to have stopped doing that, but now they are going for super long contracts where even Talk Talk have gone back to 12 months.


You can't fight it, no matter how much you hate Sky. I never seen Glee, but read about it and it don't seem to be my cup of tea, but then it is not in my age range. I may fail on Sky, it may not.




So far I have not seen any fibre product at a price I would pay that offers what I want, not that I can get fibre, when the big guns start getting into the act, Sky and Talk rubbish Talk, the prices may change, but I still can't see fibre being good value.

People will pay for speed, but it depends on what speed they get in the first place. But then some people will pay for it because it is faster and they think they want it and yet they still just do emails, surf the net and go on facebook.

Bt were forced by the Gov to open up their services at a reasonable price, why isn't that happening with Sky? yes they had to with Sports. but surely putting everyone on near equal footing would be better for competition and not stifle it? the main trouble with Sky purchasing rights for the mammoth amounts that they do is usually fta rights are usually for at least a couple of years after, which can destroy a tv series, personally Sky should start producing a bit more of their own tv or atleast start getting involved, they part funded the reimagining of Galactica (S1 anyway) which turned out to be a great hit, instead of just buying out everything they can.

[noise747]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP34L1fe

Bt were forced by the Gov to open up their services at a reasonable price, why isn't that happening with Sky? yes they had to with Sports. but surely putting everyone on near equal footing would be better for competition and not stifle it? the main trouble with Sky purchasing rights for the mammoth amounts that they do is usually fta rights are usually for at least a couple of years after, which can destroy a tv series, personally Sky should start producing a bit more of their own tv or atleast start getting involved, they part funded the reimagining of Galactica (S1 anyway) which turned out to be a great hit, instead of just buying out everything they can.

Ask the government or Ofcom why they are not doing it for Sky? Maybe Sky is plunging money into back pockets.
i did not say they was, I said maybe. this does happen in this country.

If Sky will pay the price for the series and BT or any TV channel won't then what can be done? Anyway most of the stuff Sky take is trashy American rubbish, just take Glee, what on earth is that all about?

To be honest I don't care, if T.V become unwatchable I will do what I did a couple of years back and that is to tell them to stuff my T.v licence and go back to DVD/blu-ray and the odd thing online

i can't see myself having pay T.V in the near future,