Hi Guys
I really enjoy reading all the discussion on here but have always wanted to know the answer to this.
I really enjoy reading all the discussion on here but have always wanted to know the answer to this.
Could Doctor 11 ever meet Master 1?
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I really hope the Master doesn't return but, if he really had to, it would be great to see Roger Delgado back in the series.
Well, Roger Delgardo passed away in 1973, I think, so I don't think there is much chance... 
But that's what fanfiction was made for.
But that's what fanfiction was made for.
i think the master is bound to reappear at some point but it will probably be with a different look as I believe John Simm, has said he dosen't want to do it any more now that Tennent has gone.
Originally Posted by Larry1971:
“i think the master is bound to reappear at some point but it will probably be with a different look as I believe John Simm, has said he dosen't want to do it any more now that Tennent has gone.”
“i think the master is bound to reappear at some point but it will probably be with a different look as I believe John Simm, has said he dosen't want to do it any more now that Tennent has gone.”
He did, but has since shifted his position: link
EDIT: Apologies, for some reason it won't let me link to that article. I'll find another.
I once read that there was a Time Lord "rule" which stated that Time Lords can only meet each other in a linear fashion for all involved, and that they cannot meet out of order like the situation with the Doctor and River Song (who, according to this "rule", cannot therefore be a Time Lord).
On the other hand, I also read a novel where the Eighth Doctor meets Delgado's Master, which makes a nonsense of the "rule".
On the other hand, I also read a novel where the Eighth Doctor meets Delgado's Master, which makes a nonsense of the "rule".
Originally Posted by JohnnyForget:
“I once read that there was a Time Lord "rule" which stated that Time Lords can only meet each other in a linear fashion for all involved, and that they cannot meet out of order like the situation with the Doctor and River Song (who, according to this "rule", cannot therefore be a Time Lord).
On the other hand, I also read a novel where the Eighth Doctor meets Delgado's Master, which makes a nonsense of the "rule".”
“I once read that there was a Time Lord "rule" which stated that Time Lords can only meet each other in a linear fashion for all involved, and that they cannot meet out of order like the situation with the Doctor and River Song (who, according to this "rule", cannot therefore be a Time Lord).
On the other hand, I also read a novel where the Eighth Doctor meets Delgado's Master, which makes a nonsense of the "rule".”
I think that was more of a narrative trick, to avoid any storytelling problems. Presumably if it was enforced by the Time Lords, it will have gone by the wayside now, along with the rules on travelling between universes.
Originally Posted by Larry1971:
“i think the master is bound to reappear at some point but it will probably be with a different look as I believe John Simm, has said he dosen't want to do it any more now that Tennent has gone.”
“i think the master is bound to reappear at some point but it will probably be with a different look as I believe John Simm, has said he dosen't want to do it any more now that Tennent has gone.”
i thought he said the complete opposite on the radio a couple of weeks ago!
Originally Posted by JohnnyForget:
“I once read that there was a Time Lord "rule" which stated that Time Lords can only meet each other in a linear fashion for all involved....”
“I once read that there was a Time Lord "rule" which stated that Time Lords can only meet each other in a linear fashion for all involved....”
"Rules" like that are generally thought up on the spur of the moment to explain some pot-hole or other to some over-serious kid at a convention.
We seen plenty of examples of the Doctor meeting himself - previous incarnations - so it's clearly not impossible for even the strictest "rules" on time travel to be broken.
Put simply - any such "rule" only exists in the mind of the writer. It's easy enough to change the rules - alternate reality, universe re-started, Doctor has space-flu etc - so there's no barrier to him meeting anyone, anywhen - if that's what the writers & producers want.
As for meeting the old-fashioned, hand-wringing, goatee-beared, tie-the-girl-to-the-trainlines version of the Master....
...bring it on.
Well, I think when the Timelords were around, the prevented timelords from meeting out of order. Now they're not there, who knows!
Originally Posted by Benjamin Sisko:
“Well, Roger Delgardo passed away in 1973, I think, so I don't think there is much chance...
But that's what fanfiction was made for.”
“Well, Roger Delgardo passed away in 1973, I think, so I don't think there is much chance...
But that's what fanfiction was made for.
”
Ah, but there is nothing to suggest that Roger Delgardo was actualy portraying the original Master, we don't know which incarnation he was portraying, other than it was one of his later ones due to the way his successors Masters were trying to avoid dying by unconventional means.
William Hughes played the original Master at a young age in DW: The Sound of Drums and Last of the Time Lords.
I do hope that we see a return of the Master.
Originally Posted by JohnnyForget:
“I once read that there was a Time Lord "rule" which stated that Time Lords can only meet each other in a linear fashion for all involved, and that they cannot meet out of order like the situation with the Doctor and River Song (who, according to this "rule", cannot therefore be a Time Lord).
On the other hand, I also read a novel where the Eighth Doctor meets Delgado's Master, which makes a nonsense of the "rule".”
“I once read that there was a Time Lord "rule" which stated that Time Lords can only meet each other in a linear fashion for all involved, and that they cannot meet out of order like the situation with the Doctor and River Song (who, according to this "rule", cannot therefore be a Time Lord).
On the other hand, I also read a novel where the Eighth Doctor meets Delgado's Master, which makes a nonsense of the "rule".”
It's not something that's ever been said on the TV show and is really something the fans came up with themselves ( I know I thought of it myself) to explain why the Doctor and any other Timelord always met in order.
As you say though other media has had the Doctor/Master meeting out of order.
I'm not opposed to the Master returning but I don't like John Simm's Master at all I though he wasn't very good at all (I am aware that he acted it how he was told but I was still disappointed, particularly as he was so good in Life on Mars) and I believe it to now be too late to change John Simm's Master's personality make the role better. So I would like to see the return of the Master but not as John Simm or only for him regenerate into a new Master.
Originally Posted by korbany:
“Ah, but there is nothing to suggest that Roger Delgardo was actualy portraying the original Master, we don't know which incarnation he was portraying.”
“Ah, but there is nothing to suggest that Roger Delgardo was actualy portraying the original Master, we don't know which incarnation he was portraying.”
It was heavily hinted at that he was the 13th incarnation (if you want to count the novels as canon - not that I care either way, they make this explicit), unless he had access a bonkomatic regeneration hammer and went through a few incarnations quickly sometime between seasons 10 and 14! - Not so say that someone couldn't slide a few post Delgado incarnations in if they so wanted.
Originally Posted by Corwin:
“It's not something that's ever been said on the TV show and is really something the fans came up with themselves ( I know I thought of it myself) to explain why the Doctor and any other Timelord always met in order.”
“It's not something that's ever been said on the TV show and is really something the fans came up with themselves ( I know I thought of it myself) to explain why the Doctor and any other Timelord always met in order.”
Indeed. A bit like the bizarre idea some fans have that an old photograph will always show the current face of the Doctor, regardless of which incarnation was photographed at the time.
Originally Posted by Corwin:
“As you say though other media has had the Doctor/Master meeting out of order.”
“As you say though other media has had the Doctor/Master meeting out of order.”
And the TV series had the Master meeting the Valeyard during the 6th Doctor's tenure.
I liked Simm's Master, but would love to see more Jacobi. I recall an interview (Confidential?) where Sir Derek seemed disappointed to have had so little time as the Master rather than Yana so he may well be up for it.
Roger Delgardo was the first Master we met . . . not necessarily the first Master!
As mentioned previously, the 'Anthony Ainley' version of the Master (in the 80s) was well versed with The Valeyard who appeared to be a future Doctor . . . so he knew the 6th Doctor at the same time as a future Doctor (an evil version of the Doctor from somewhere between his 12th and final incarnation or something).
The Big Finish productions have Romana meeting all different versions of the Doctor in different orders too.
So I don't think Time Lords necessarily meet in the same time line.
As mentioned previously, the 'Anthony Ainley' version of the Master (in the 80s) was well versed with The Valeyard who appeared to be a future Doctor . . . so he knew the 6th Doctor at the same time as a future Doctor (an evil version of the Doctor from somewhere between his 12th and final incarnation or something).
The Big Finish productions have Romana meeting all different versions of the Doctor in different orders too.
So I don't think Time Lords necessarily meet in the same time line.
The problem with having a "star" in the role is that they are expensive, have limited availability and are less likely to be willing or able to return in another series. The Master is up there with the Daleks and Cybermen - cosmetically they can be tweaked but they are fundamentally consistent throughout and having a stream of "guest stars" playing the Master would be like allowing the writers to completely redesign the Daleks everytime - not just modify the colours and size but to have them as walking robots one week and glowing lights the next. At some point it risks the criticism that someone is writing generic scripts and just using cut & paste to insert "The Master" where it says "bad guy". In terms of what the Dr Who story is about - there's something to be said for not having the Master regenerate every time the Doctor does - at the very least, he'd be less likely to run headlong into danger so he'd be less likely to need to.
As for his appearence and character...
These days, there might be a certain resistence to portraying the most evil guy in the universe as being rather Arab-looking - the same might apply to other features that could be tperceived as racial or ethnic slurs or stereo-typing. A black or female Master would be a way to "push the boundaries" as Doctor Who has included so many positive alternatives - and a female Master would give some great writing opportunities - but the overall idea of the Master being an almost mirror-image of the Doctor is perhaps easier to illustrate by making him physically "equal" - which leans towards a male actor of similar age and size.
The problem with having a "star" in the role is that they are expensive, have limited availability and are less likely to be willing or able to return in another series so if I was in Moffat's shoes and was looking to cast a Master for the new-era Doctor, I'd be looking at an "unknown" actor - someone around Matt's age and maybe some pretty-boy type who could believably charm the sort of people making up today's audience.
If he's going to ring true with today's young audience, the pantomine style villain of the 60's isn't going to work.
(That's not to say that the Doctor shouldn't travel back to meet the old Master for a one-off - just that any future Master would need to be very different and I'd like to see a new style that can become as recognisable as Delgado's classic.)
As for his appearence and character...
These days, there might be a certain resistence to portraying the most evil guy in the universe as being rather Arab-looking - the same might apply to other features that could be tperceived as racial or ethnic slurs or stereo-typing. A black or female Master would be a way to "push the boundaries" as Doctor Who has included so many positive alternatives - and a female Master would give some great writing opportunities - but the overall idea of the Master being an almost mirror-image of the Doctor is perhaps easier to illustrate by making him physically "equal" - which leans towards a male actor of similar age and size.
The problem with having a "star" in the role is that they are expensive, have limited availability and are less likely to be willing or able to return in another series so if I was in Moffat's shoes and was looking to cast a Master for the new-era Doctor, I'd be looking at an "unknown" actor - someone around Matt's age and maybe some pretty-boy type who could believably charm the sort of people making up today's audience.
If he's going to ring true with today's young audience, the pantomine style villain of the 60's isn't going to work.
(That's not to say that the Doctor shouldn't travel back to meet the old Master for a one-off - just that any future Master would need to be very different and I'd like to see a new style that can become as recognisable as Delgado's classic.)
Originally Posted by CmdrBond:
“I know who I would like to see play the Master (if they can afford him) Christopher Lee...”
“I know who I would like to see play the Master (if they can afford him) Christopher Lee...”
Alan Rickman - "I'm afraid the Doctor will not be joining us for the rest of his life" and "Cancel the Christmas special"
...or to Amy - "...and bring a friend"
Originally Posted by Mulett:
“Roger Delgardo was the first Master we met . . . not necessarily the first Master!
As mentioned previously, the 'Anthony Ainley' version of the Master (in the 80s) was well versed with The Valeyard who appeared to be a future Doctor . . . so he knew the 6th Doctor at the same time as a future Doctor (an evil version of the Doctor from somewhere between his 12th and final incarnation or something).
The Big Finish productions have Romana meeting all different versions of the Doctor in different orders too.
So I don't think Time Lords necessarily meet in the same time line.”
“Roger Delgardo was the first Master we met . . . not necessarily the first Master!
As mentioned previously, the 'Anthony Ainley' version of the Master (in the 80s) was well versed with The Valeyard who appeared to be a future Doctor . . . so he knew the 6th Doctor at the same time as a future Doctor (an evil version of the Doctor from somewhere between his 12th and final incarnation or something).
The Big Finish productions have Romana meeting all different versions of the Doctor in different orders too.
So I don't think Time Lords necessarily meet in the same time line.”
Also remember that Ainley Master met Doctors 1, 2, 3 and 5 in 'The Five Doctors'
Doctor 11 could meet Delgado's Master by means of clever computer jiggery-pokery, but it would be tricky to expain how he could keep trying to kill other Doctors, having met Doctor 11.
However, as I have suggested once or twice, I could envisage a story much like Star Trek's famous DS9 episode in which Sisko and his people visited Kirk's Tribble tribulations. They even got the actor who played the Klingon agent Darvin to reprise his rôle. Doctor 11 and the current Master (or a new one) could visit, say, Dćmons, each trying to change or restore events without being noticed.
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